[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Sun Oct 19 16:31:58 EDT 2008
What Obama and his ilk don't understand is that there are people that
recognize right and wrong no matter who it's directed at.
I'm in the 95% that would get a tax cut under Obama's plan.
I don't like it.
I don't like it because it takes away from the other 5% to give to me. I
hope someday to be in that 5%, and I wouldn't want that done to me.
It's all part of that old fashioned notion of do unto others as you
would have them do unto you. I don't want anyone taking money from me
and saying "I'm going to give this to someone else because they have
less than you."
Because I don't want it done to me, I don't want it done to anyone else.
But, I realize I'm a bit extreme.
Brad Haslett wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> Pay attention here, Joe the Plumber is not doing mid-night repairs on
> peoples shitters. He is working under someone else's license. If you
> know plumbing and plumbers then you know that it takes a seven year
> apprenticeship. How else does one become a plumber? So did Joe ask
> an invalid question because he didn't identify himself as "Joe the
> Apprentice Plumber"? The latest attack on Joe was from The One
> himself, "how many plumbers do you know that make more than $250,000 a
> year?". You should know, lot's of plumbing contractors make that much
> and more.
>
> The answer, "we need to share the wealth" is what is disturbing. You
> can't mathematically give 95% of the people "tax cuts" when the bottom
> 38% don't pay taxes. Even if you could, I wouldn't be in the 95% and
> as Tip O'neil used to say, "all politics is local". If almost 40% of
> voters have the chance to vote themselves a raise, they will. You now
> only need a small percentage of party faithful to vote your way and,
> PRESTO!, we've arrived at the tipping point our founding fathers
> worried about.
>
> The truth of the matter is, we don't know what Obama will do, his
> positions have shifted weekly. As a community organizer he helped
> shake down companies out of money. As a grant administrator he
> distributed monies to organizations based on race and radical ideas,
> not sound education principles. As a State Senator he either voted
> "present" if it was a controversial issue or "Yea" if it involved
> funneling money to Chicago cronies for public/private enterprises,
> most of which failed. As a US Senator he followed the party line 97%
> of the time and wrote no major piece of legislation.
>
> There isn't a whole lot in his record of late to make judgements on
> other than words. According to Obama, words mean something. So, I
> guess that when he plans to raise taxes and engage in restraint of
> trade he means it. Let's hope that works out better than it did for
> Herbert Hoover.
>
> Maybe this is what Dr. Johnson was thinking when he coined the phrase,
> "it is the triumph of hope over experience".
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Collins
> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Brad
>>
>> What was your point exactly, Brad? You made mine quite nicely, thank you.
>> You are having trouble focusing.
>> I am very well versed in plumbing, and have seen just how badly unlicensed
>> plumbers can screw things up. Some of them even think shit can flow uphill,
>> and I have the photos to prove it.
>>
>> I tell all my intern engineers the first rule of construction is "shit flows
>> downhill", and have been telling them for 30 years.
>>
>> My firm can plumb anything you like, we are licensed in 4 states. We abide
>> by the law of the land, as do you.
>>
>> Get licensed Joe!
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> God bless your immature heart. How the hell do you get experience?
>>> You started out shitting in your pants. Someone had to help you find
>>> your way to the John. Attacking Joe the Plumber because he doesn't
>>> have a license is silly. Allow me to let you in on a little secret
>>> here. I work in the most regulated profession in the world. I get
>>> tested at at minimum every six months (I'm an examiner). I get a
>>> physical every six months. Every day at work I'm subject to drug
>>> testing. Every day I'm subject to a random government oversight test.
>>> I challenge you to find a profession that has a bigger microscope
>>> focused on it.
>>>
>>> You are worried about a plumber? Here's a clue kid! Shit flows
>>> downhill. Plumbing is serious business. It takes 7 years of
>>> experience to get a plumbers license. You have to be smart to get
>>> one. But don't you cast aspersions on someone who is working on a
>>> plumbing license or someone who is aspiring one.
>>>
>>> Most of the PhD's I know couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the
>>> instructions printed on the heel. Never underestimate the common
>>> wisdom of someone who knows the direction of shit given gravity or
>>> "shit from shinola".
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Collins
>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
>>>>
>>>> awful post
>>>>
>>>> " ... when decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost "?
>>>>
>>>> This post isn't worthy of even this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
>>>>
>>> forum.
>>>
>>>> And whaddabout the subject line? Ed where are you?
>>>>
>>>> Can we have a new rule: you have to write it yourself not cut and paste
>>>>
>>> any
>>>
>>>> old uncorroborated opinion that oozes across the web?
>>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed plumber, he is just that. He should be
>>>>
>>> licensed,
>>>
>>>> take the tests, go to trade school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
>>>> unregistered engineers practice, do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
>>>>
>>> No,
>>>
>>>> they don't
>>>>
>>>> This unlicensed tradesman is manipulating gas installations, connections
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> the public water supply, connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
>>>> work brings with it responsibilities that every municipality requires be
>>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing license before being allowed to this
>>>>
>>> kind
>>>
>>>> of work.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> October 17, 2008
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
>>>>>
>>>>> By C. Edmund Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
>>>>>
>>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your heart Joe. You, and people like you, are
>>>>> what makes the country work. You make the country great. You get it --
>>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>>> act on it -- and you enrich the lives of your family and your friends
>>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>>> your communities and your charities as a result.
>>>>> But I think what I should say now is "God help you Joe." Look, 16 plus
>>>>> years ago I was where you are now. And I must tell you if Obama wins, I
>>>>> am pulling the plug in a few months. I am out. I have had it. I am
>>>>> preparing to destroy almost 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
>>>>>
>>> can't
>>>
>>>>> wait.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
>>>>> and a plan. At the time, the remnants of Reaganomics still set the
>>>>> economic tone and a fired up Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>> Clinton White House every time Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
>>>>>
>>> There
>>>
>>>>> were actually politicians who praised business owners and business in
>>>>> general. Against that backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
>>>>> extremely challenging and the move up was not a straight line, but I am
>>>>> better off than I was 16 years ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
>>>>>
>>> And
>>>
>>>>> so are a lot of folks who have been on this ride with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Joe, I am not better off than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
>>>>> decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
>>>>> took several hundred thousands from my bottom line faster than I could
>>>>> possibly react. That same gas price slammed my customers -- and my
>>>>> customer's customers -- forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
>>>>>
>>> rising
>>>
>>>>> costs and rapidly dropping revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
>>>>>
>>> from
>>>
>>>>> our customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> That started the ripple through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
>>>>> have all seen the unraveling of our financial system which was more or
>>>>> less totally underpinned by real estate "values." Those assumed
>>>>>
>>> valuations
>>>
>>>>> were the basis for any number of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
>>>>> Well, forget all that Wall Street talk. To you and me it means employees
>>>>> are more desperate for money, customers are less willing to buy, slower
>>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> pay and banks less willing to lend. It certainly means whatever homes
>>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>>> 401K's you have are worth less too which makes your bank even less
>>>>>
>>> anxious
>>>
>>>>> to lend to your business. It is the main street carnage of "unfettered
>>>>> government" onto small business. It is the destructive fruit of
>>>>> environmental leftists, the Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
>>>>>
>>> other
>>>
>>>>> corrupt liberals in positions of power.
>>>>>
>>>>> And sadly, this is also the result of George Bush giving into these
>>>>>
>>> folks
>>>
>>>>> all too often in defense of his "new tone." (That worked out well,
>>>>>
>>> didn't
>>>
>>>>> it?) This was helped ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
>>>>>
>>> aisle"
>>>
>>>>> to vote against tax cuts and vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
>>>>> of this was nicely summed up by Mitt Romney when he said that our
>>>>>
>>> problems
>>>
>>>>> stem from "too many Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
>>>>> the polls are anywhere near accurate, we are going to get a taste of
>>>>>
>>> "real
>>>
>>>>> Democrats acting too much like Marxists" for at least a few years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mitt was right, but the pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
>>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
>>>>> might sell to the moderates now? Just a wild thought from someone not
>>>>> smart enough to be a beltway pundit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been there, let me tell you how this works,
>>>>> though I think you have a good idea. At the end of the year, as an LLC,
>>>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>> do file taxes with the business profit on my personal returns like many
>>>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>>> others do as well. And yes, that figure is much bigger than 250
>>>>>
>>> thousand.
>>>
>>>>> But that's not really MY MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
>>>>> When customers disappear or take their time paying bills, I still have
>>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> pay my employees, rent, suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
>>>>> penny that the tax man takes out of that profit is less money that I
>>>>>
>>> have
>>>
>>>>> to carry forward to stay in business for the next year. And if Obama and
>>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
>>>>> course my business will suffer. And so will all the employees.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is exactly what almost none of those lawyers turned politicians
>>>>> understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> But of course, you will have to send tax money into the government, Joe,
>>>>> because the man who is in charge of spending that money -- Charlie
>>>>>
>>> Rangel
>>>
>>>>> -- damned sure wasn't paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
>>>>> checkbook.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, all of this matters only if you can afford to fill your
>>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh knows what price. It could be that the
>>>>> recession will lower the gas price, but that's not terribly good news
>>>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>>> you either, since customers don't spend as much money in a recession. I
>>>>> mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but small business owners are
>>>>> surrounded by a sea of challenges outside their control and almost all
>>>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>>> them are caused by liberalism. Government has formed a business firing
>>>>> squad and it's a doggone circle!
>>>>>
>>>>> I wish you well, guy. You might just have the genius and persistence to
>>>>> pull this off. I really do hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
>>>>> fought creeping liberalism and managed more wins than losses over 17
>>>>> years. We have progressed to where our business, now a corporation,
>>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>>> big enough so that Obama and his ilk now have their own ideas about
>>>>>
>>> "what
>>>
>>>>> larger businesses can afford" and what "corporations can afford."
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I've got news for him. I cannot afford what they think I can
>>>>>
>>> afford,
>>>
>>>>> so I am breaking her up and giving her away to some key employees. I
>>>>>
>>> wish
>>>
>>>>> them well too. They are like you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
>>>>> small enough and never can carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
>>>>> year, they will be allowed to keep their businesses through a downturn.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
>>>>>
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