[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That

Sun Oct 19 20:06:04 EDT 2008

Herb,

Fan and I are BARELY in the 99% percentile and we're not rich. She
arrived here in 1989 shortly after Tienanmen Square with two suit
cases and $50 US money and I met her ten years later after her second
graduate degree and third job.  We struck a bond because after decades
of living a "macroni and cheese lifestyle", maybe a "rice and noodles"
lifestyle would be more appropriate - we found ourselves on the path
to success. Now we're being told that we're guilty of something.

It's always good to go home to Brownstown, Illinois.  The town has
grown, it was 650 people when I grew-up there, now it's up to 700
people.

I'll get back to you tomorrow on how things have changed.  I'm glad to
be back home.  Mom and Dad are always good for inspiration.

We'll survive!

Brad

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> What Obama and his ilk don't understand is that there are people that
> recognize right and wrong no matter who it's directed at.
>
> I'm in the 95% that would get a tax cut under Obama's plan.
>
> I don't like it.
>
> I don't like it because it takes away from the other 5% to give to me. I
> hope someday to be in that 5%, and I wouldn't want that done to me.
>
> It's all part of that old fashioned notion of do unto others as you
> would have them do unto you. I don't want anyone taking money from me
> and saying "I'm going to give this to someone else because they have
> less than you."
>
> Because I don't want it done to me, I don't want it done to anyone else.
>
> But, I realize I'm a bit extreme.
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Pay attention here, Joe the Plumber is not doing mid-night repairs on
>> peoples shitters.  He is working under someone else's license. If you
>> know plumbing and plumbers then you know that it takes a seven year
>> apprenticeship.  How else does one become a plumber?  So did Joe ask
>> an invalid question because he didn't identify himself as "Joe the
>> Apprentice Plumber"? The latest attack on Joe was from The One
>> himself, "how many plumbers do you know that make more than $250,000 a
>> year?".  You should know, lot's of plumbing contractors make that much
>> and more.
>>
>> The answer, "we need to share the wealth" is what is disturbing.  You
>> can't mathematically give 95% of the people "tax cuts" when the bottom
>> 38% don't pay taxes.  Even if you could, I wouldn't be in the 95% and
>> as Tip O'neil used to say, "all politics is local". If almost 40% of
>> voters have the chance to vote themselves a raise, they will.  You now
>> only need a small percentage of party faithful to vote your way and,
>> PRESTO!, we've arrived at the tipping point our founding fathers
>> worried about.
>>
>> The truth of the matter is, we don't know what Obama will do, his
>> positions have shifted weekly.  As a community organizer he helped
>> shake down companies out of money.  As a grant administrator he
>> distributed monies to organizations based on race and radical ideas,
>> not sound education principles.  As a State Senator he either voted
>> "present" if it was a controversial issue or "Yea" if it involved
>> funneling money to Chicago cronies for public/private enterprises,
>> most of which failed.  As a US Senator he followed the party line 97%
>> of the time and wrote no major piece of legislation.
>>
>> There isn't a whole lot in his record of late to make judgements on
>> other than words.  According to Obama, words mean something.  So, I
>> guess that when he plans to raise taxes and engage in restraint of
>> trade he means it.  Let's hope that works out better than it did for
>> Herbert Hoover.
>>
>> Maybe this is what Dr. Johnson was thinking when he coined the phrase,
>> "it is the triumph of hope over experience".
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Collins
>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> What was your point exactly, Brad? You made mine quite nicely, thank you.
>>> You are having trouble focusing.
>>> I am very well versed in plumbing, and have seen just how badly unlicensed
>>> plumbers can screw things up. Some of them even think shit can flow uphill,
>>> and I have the photos to prove it.
>>>
>>> I tell all my intern engineers the first rule of construction is "shit flows
>>> downhill", and have been telling them for 30 years.
>>>
>>> My firm can plumb anything you like, we are licensed in 4 states. We abide
>>> by the law of the land, as do you.
>>>
>>> Get licensed Joe!
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> God bless your immature heart.  How the hell do you get experience?
>>>> You started out shitting in your pants.  Someone had to help you find
>>>> your way to the John.  Attacking Joe the Plumber because he doesn't
>>>> have a license is silly.  Allow me to let you in on a little secret
>>>> here.  I work in the most regulated profession in the world.  I get
>>>> tested at at minimum every six months (I'm an examiner).  I get a
>>>> physical every six months.  Every day at work I'm subject to drug
>>>> testing.  Every day I'm subject to a random government oversight test.
>>>>  I challenge you to find a profession that has a bigger microscope
>>>> focused on it.
>>>>
>>>> You are worried about a plumber?  Here's a clue kid!  Shit flows
>>>> downhill.  Plumbing is serious business.  It takes 7 years of
>>>> experience to get a plumbers license.  You have to be smart to get
>>>> one.  But don't you cast aspersions on someone who is working on a
>>>> plumbing license or someone who is aspiring one.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the PhD's I know couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the
>>>> instructions printed on the heel.  Never underestimate the common
>>>> wisdom of someone who knows the direction of shit given gravity or
>>>> "shit from shinola".
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Collins
>>>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear pdgrand nospam:
>>>>>
>>>>> awful post
>>>>>
>>>>> " ... when decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost "?
>>>>>
>>>>> This post isn't worthy of even this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
>>>>>
>>>> forum.
>>>>
>>>>> And whaddabout the subject line? Ed where are you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we have a new rule: you have to write it yourself not cut and paste
>>>>>
>>>> any
>>>>
>>>>> old uncorroborated opinion that oozes across the web?
>>>>> And if Joe is an unlicensed plumber, he is just that. He should be
>>>>>
>>>> licensed,
>>>>
>>>>> take the tests, go to trade school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
>>>>> unregistered engineers practice, do unlicensed beauticians give facials?
>>>>>
>>>> No,
>>>>
>>>>> they don't
>>>>>
>>>>> This unlicensed tradesman is manipulating gas installations, connections
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> the public water supply, connectiions to public sewer systems, etc. This
>>>>> work brings with it responsibilities that every municipality requires be
>>>>> satisfied by obtaining a plumbing license before being allowed to this
>>>>>
>>>> kind
>>>>
>>>>> of work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:37 PM, <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> October 17, 2008
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By C. Edmund Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God love you Joe. Bless your heart Joe.  You, and people like you, are
>>>>>> what makes the country work. You make the country great. You get it --
>>>>>>
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>>>> act on it -- and you enrich the lives of your family and your friends
>>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>> your communities and your charities as a result.
>>>>>> But I think what I should say now is "God help you Joe."  Look, 16 plus
>>>>>> years ago I was where you are now. And I must tell you  if Obama wins, I
>>>>>> am pulling the plug in a few months. I am out. I have had it.  I am
>>>>>> preparing to destroy almost 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and I
>>>>>>
>>>> can't
>>>>
>>>>>> wait.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider: 16 years ago I was statistically in poverty, but I had dreams
>>>>>> and a plan. At the time, the remnants of Reaganomics still set the
>>>>>> economic tone and a fired up Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism on
>>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>> Clinton White House every time Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
>>>>>>
>>>>  There
>>>>
>>>>>> were actually politicians who praised business owners and business in
>>>>>> general.  Against that backdrop, I've had a pretty good run. It's been
>>>>>> extremely challenging and the move up was not a straight line, but I am
>>>>>> better off than I was 16 years ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>> And
>>>>
>>>>>> so are a lot of folks who have been on this ride with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Joe, I am not better off than I was just 2 years ago. That's when
>>>>>> decades of liberal energy policy came home to roost and four dollar gas
>>>>>> took several hundred thousands from my bottom line faster than I could
>>>>>> possibly react.  That same gas price slammed my customers -- and my
>>>>>> customer's customers -- forcing our company into a vice of rapidly
>>>>>>
>>>> rising
>>>>
>>>>>> costs and rapidly dropping revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower payments
>>>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>
>>>>>> our customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That started the ripple through the sub prime mortgage industry, and we
>>>>>> have all seen the unraveling of our financial system which was more or
>>>>>> less totally underpinned by real estate "values." Those assumed
>>>>>>
>>>> valuations
>>>>
>>>>>> were the basis for any number of derivatives and credit swaps and so on.
>>>>>> Well, forget all that Wall Street talk. To you and me it means employees
>>>>>> are more desperate for money, customers are less willing to buy, slower
>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>> pay and banks less willing to lend. It certainly means whatever homes
>>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>> 401K's you have are worth less too which makes your bank even less
>>>>>>
>>>> anxious
>>>>
>>>>>> to lend to your business. It is the main street carnage of "unfettered
>>>>>> government" onto small business. It is the destructive fruit of
>>>>>> environmental leftists, the Fannie-Freddie cronies in government and
>>>>>>
>>>> other
>>>>
>>>>>> corrupt liberals in positions of power.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And sadly, this is also the result of George Bush giving into these
>>>>>>
>>>> folks
>>>>
>>>>>> all too often in defense of his "new tone." (That worked out well,
>>>>>>
>>>> didn't
>>>>
>>>>>> it?) This was helped ironically by John McCain "reaching across the
>>>>>>
>>>> aisle"
>>>>
>>>>>> to vote against tax cuts and vote for energy restrictions and so on. All
>>>>>> of this was nicely summed up by Mitt Romney when he said that our
>>>>>>
>>>> problems
>>>>
>>>>>> stem from "too many Republicans acting too much like Democrats." Now, if
>>>>>> the polls are anywhere near accurate, we are going to get a taste of
>>>>>>
>>>> "real
>>>>
>>>>>> Democrats acting too much like Marxists" for at least a few years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mitt was right, but the pundits said McCain was more acceptable to the
>>>>>> moderates. Hmmm. Wonder if a financial turn-around specialist like Mitt
>>>>>> might sell to the moderates now? Just a wild thought from someone not
>>>>>> smart enough to be a beltway pundit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now Joe, as someone whose been there, let me tell you how this works,
>>>>>> though I think you have a good idea.  At the end of the year, as an LLC,
>>>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>>> do file taxes with the business profit on my personal returns like many
>>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> others do as well.  And yes, that figure is much bigger than 250
>>>>>>
>>>> thousand.
>>>>
>>>>>> But that's not really MY MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin my business.
>>>>>> When customers disappear or take their time paying bills, I still have
>>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>> pay my employees, rent, suppliers, and countless other expenses. Every
>>>>>> penny that the tax man takes out of that profit is less money that I
>>>>>>
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>>> to carry forward to stay in business for the next year. And if Obama and
>>>>>> Reid and Pelosi take more of this by "raising taxes on the rich" then of
>>>>>> course my business will suffer. And so will all the employees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is exactly what almost none of those lawyers turned politicians
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But of course, you will have to send tax money into the government, Joe,
>>>>>> because the man who is in charge of spending that money -- Charlie
>>>>>>
>>>> Rangel
>>>>
>>>>>> -- damned sure wasn't paying his fair share as we know now. Get out that
>>>>>> checkbook.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, all of this matters only if you can afford to fill your
>>>>>> plumbing vans with gas at gosh knows what price. It could be that the
>>>>>> recession will lower the gas price, but that's not terribly good news
>>>>>>
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>>> you either, since customers don't spend as much money in a recession. I
>>>>>> mean, I hate to burst your bubble, but small business owners are
>>>>>> surrounded by a sea of challenges outside their control and almost all
>>>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> them are caused by liberalism. Government has formed a business firing
>>>>>> squad and it's a doggone circle!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wish you well, guy.  You might just have the genius and persistence to
>>>>>> pull this off. I really do hope so. As for me, I have had enough. I have
>>>>>> fought creeping liberalism and managed more wins than losses over 17
>>>>>> years. We have progressed to where  our business,  now a corporation,
>>>>>>
>>>>  is
>>>>
>>>>>> big enough so that Obama and his ilk now have their own ideas about
>>>>>>
>>>> "what
>>>>
>>>>>> larger businesses can afford" and what "corporations can afford."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I've got news for him. I cannot afford what they think I can
>>>>>>
>>>> afford,
>>>>
>>>>>> so I am breaking her up and giving her away to some key employees.  I
>>>>>>
>>>> wish
>>>>
>>>>>> them well too. They are like you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they stay
>>>>>> small enough and never can carry forward more than 250 thou to the next
>>>>>> year, they will be allowed to keep their businesses through a downturn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for me? I'm outta here.
>>>>>>
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