[Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...

Ben Cittadino bcittadino at dcs-law.com
Tue Oct 21 18:48:27 EDT 2008 

Dear Jb;

I am curious.  Do you see no problem with Ed's post at the beginning of this
thread? Is it OK for members to call each other such vile names as marxist
or refer to them being co-conspirators in a fraud?  I know your opinion
about what I said.  What is your opinion of what Ed said, not as it relates
to me but as it relates generally to behavior of forum members? Do you find
such invective entertaining?  I'm trying to be serious here for a moment. I
am interested in your opinion because I haven't skirmished with you before
and I really want a fresh thought on this?  Are you willing to put aside the
"reparte" for a moment and address this subject? You talk, I'll listen.

Ben C.



Just bent wrote:
> 
> Herb
> My pic is at the end of the post.     jb.jpg
> Jb
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
> 
> 
>> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black, and see
>> white in your post.
>>
>> Both are extremes.
>>
>> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
>>
>> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and was
>> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll be
>> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him on it.
>>
>> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests like
>> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was watching
>> them back down.
>>
>> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
>>
>> But then, there are worst things in life.
>>
>> Just bent wrote:
>> > Herb.
>> > do I look like an extreamist?
>> > Jb
>> >
>> >
>> > hparsons wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that way.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things Ben....
>> >> I'm not the only one ....
>> >>
>> >> JbTek wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Ben C.
>> >>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like to me.
>> >>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least tolerated
> but
>> >>> threats are not.
>> >>> Jb
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>> >>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a co-conspirator? 
>> It
>> >>>> sure
>> >>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening to label
> me
>> >>>> as
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> a
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to sue Ed?
> No,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> I
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a wonderfully
>> >>>> developed
>> >>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him) might have
> such
>> >>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ben C.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just bent wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
>> >>>>> Jb
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>> >>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
> ...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ed;
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist as you
>> see
>> >>>>>> it?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> What
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view?  Does the 1st Amendment to our
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Constitution
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone a
> marxist
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>> who
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>> is
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character? Do you
> have
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>> any
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> life savings?  Inquiring minds want to know?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Have a nice day.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ben C.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Ed,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public about his
>> >>>>>>> relationship with Ayers.  This issue isn't going away and it
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> shouldn't
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> go away.  Speculation is strong and the evidence is growing that
> the
>> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to Obama's
>> days
> in
>> >>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and they were
> both
>> >>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost authored
> Obama's
>> >>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors Ayer's
>> >>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's second
>> book
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> was
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level).  But let's forget speculation for
>> a
>> >>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known.  I'm posting a link instead
> of
>> >>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>
> http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge that Obama,
>> >>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of the same
>> >>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the same law
> firm.
>> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements (which by
> the
>> >>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for speaking
>> but
>> >>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period he was
> in
>> >>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for the most
> part
>> >>>>>>> let him get away with it.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly be
> guilty
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> of
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Brad
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my own
>> >>>>>>>> socioeconomic
>> >>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..."  The term leadership
> comprises
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> many
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> atributes.  And part of what are call traditional values is
> simple
>> >>>>>>>> honesty.
>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on and
> saying
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> hey,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> "
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing.  Even if he is a Marxist as
> is
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> Bill
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the truth.
> In
>> >>>>>>>> America a
>> >>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about it.  So
> it
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> goes
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy?  If you know or should
> have
>> >>>>>>>> reasonable known something?  Are you obligated to say something?
> If
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> do
>> >>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being commited is he
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> obligated
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>> speak out?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
>> >>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
>> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
>> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for the Jews,
>> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
>> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
>> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
>> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
>> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for me
>> >>>>>>>>    and by that time no one was left to speak up.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>  --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the German
> Confessing
>> >>>>>>>> Church
>> >>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
> connection
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> at
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>> all
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who knew
>> who,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> where
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue?  Saying that because most
> others
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> deny
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that everybody
>> else
> in
>> >>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k.  Saying his friends deny
> the
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> issue
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> does not make it go away.  It is Richard Nixon's arguement all
> over
>> >>>>>>>> again.
>> >>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court, but do
>> not
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> ask
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>> them
>> >>>>>>>> of yourself?  Are lawyers above the law?  Inquiring minds want
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> know?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Ed K
>> >>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>> >>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
>> >>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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> go
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> to
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> to
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -- 
>> >>>>>> View this message in context:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>> go
> to
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> __________________________________________________
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> to
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> -- 
>> >>>> View this message in context:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> to
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>> >>>>
>> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>> >>>
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>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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>> >>>
>> >> __________________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
>> >
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