[Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...

Tue Oct 21 18:31:58 EDT 2008

Herb
My pic is at the end of the post.     jb.jpg
Jb
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...


> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black, and see
> white in your post.
>
> Both are extremes.
>
> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
>
> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and was
> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll be
> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him on it.
>
> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests like
> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was watching
> them back down.
>
> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
>
> But then, there are worst things in life.
>
> Just bent wrote:
> > Herb.
> > do I look like an extreamist?
> > Jb
> >
> >
> > hparsons wrote:
> >
> >> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that way.
> >>
> >> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things Ben....
> >> I'm not the only one ....
> >>
> >> JbTek wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ben C.
> >>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like to me.
> >>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least tolerated
but
> >>> threats are not.
> >>> Jb
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a co-conspirator?  It
> >>>> sure
> >>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening to label
me
> >>>> as
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to sue Ed?
No,
> >>>> but
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a wonderfully
> >>>> developed
> >>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him) might have
such
> >>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben C.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just bent wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
> >>>>> Jb
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ed;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist as you see
> >>>>>> it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> What
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view?  Does the 1st Amendment to our
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Constitution
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone a
marxist
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> who
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character? Do you
have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> any
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> life savings?  Inquiring minds want to know?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have a nice day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ed,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public about his
> >>>>>>> relationship with Ayers.  This issue isn't going away and it
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> shouldn't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> go away.  Speculation is strong and the evidence is growing that
the
> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to Obama's days
in
> >>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and they were
both
> >>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost authored
Obama's
> >>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors Ayer's
> >>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's second book
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level).  But let's forget speculation for a
> >>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known.  I'm posting a link instead
of
> >>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge that Obama,
> >>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of the same
> >>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the same law
firm.
> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements (which by
the
> >>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for speaking but
> >>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period he was
in
> >>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for the most
part
> >>>>>>> let him get away with it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly be
guilty
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my own
> >>>>>>>> socioeconomic
> >>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..."  The term leadership
comprises
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> many
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> atributes.  And part of what are call traditional values is
simple
> >>>>>>>> honesty.
> >>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on and
saying
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> hey,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> "
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing.  Even if he is a Marxist as
is
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> Bill
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the truth.
In
> >>>>>>>> America a
> >>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about it.  So
it
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> goes
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy?  If you know or should
have
> >>>>>>>> reasonable known something?  Are you obligated to say something?
If
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being commited is he
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> obligated
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> speak out?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
> >>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for the Jews,
> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for me
> >>>>>>>>    and by that time no one was left to speak up.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the German
Confessing
> >>>>>>>> Church
> >>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
connection
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> at
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> all
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who knew who,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> where
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue?  Saying that because most
others
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> deny
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that everybody else
in
> >>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k.  Saying his friends deny
the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> issue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> does not make it go away.  It is Richard Nixon's arguement all
over
> >>>>>>>> again.
> >>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court, but do not
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> ask
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> them
> >>>>>>>> of yourself?  Are lawyers above the law?  Inquiring minds want to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> know?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ed K
> >>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
> >>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
> >>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
go
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> -- 
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
> >
> __________________________________________________
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>