[Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...

Just bent j.bulfer at jbtek.com
Tue Oct 21 20:34:54 EDT 2008 

I was out Sunday & was able to go wing on wing. My wife was impressed. She's
come along way.
I wish I had video. I'm working on my kite-cam.
I move the traveler everytime I tack. I always put it on the lee side so I
can dump the main quicker when the gust comes, unless it's real light air.
Don't know Sandy Hook Bay, I'm in Az.
I sail year round.
Jb




Ben Cittadino wrote:
> 
> Jb;
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Actually I prefer "moose shit" to "marxist", but we've beaten this to
> death so I'll let it go.
> 
> I have been sailing .  Been out three times this month on Sandy Hook Bay. 
> Sailed with a (former?) list member Rob Baldi who taught me more in four
> hours than I could have imagined.  We played with the traveler (I had
> never moved it from dead center) and I learned how adjusting it can help
> on a long track.
> I even learned alittle about those strings on the edges of the sails,
> which I hadn't paid a whole lot of attention to (forget the name).  8-12
> mph winds out of the NNE most days.  Enough clouds to keep from baking. 
> Got to get her out of the water by 11-1. Too bad. Looking to go out with
> Jay Friedland and get some real lessons before the end of the month, but
> it might not happen. Still dreaming of next 4th of July in NY Harbor for
> the fireworks, (if I get up the courage to challenge that crush of boats).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ben C.
> 
> Just bent wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Ben,
>> 
>> You may think you know my opinion, but you don't.
>> All I said was that threats are not tolerated on this list.
>> I read your post as a threat to another member and asked if that is what
>> you
>> meant.
>> I think name calling is very childish and speaks of the person. No I
>> don't
>> think it's entertaining
>> I've been called moose shit by a school teacher from this list. It means
>> nothing.
>> There are many ways to make a point. Some just say it, others imply it.
>> It
>> makes the same point.
>> You guys can "skirmish" all you want, it's not going to change anything,
>> or
>> anyone so .........what's the point?
>> 
>> Been sailing lately.....I have.
>> Jb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>> Dear Jb;
>>>
>>> I am curious.  Do you see no problem with Ed's post at the beginning of
>> this
>>> thread? Is it OK for members to call each other such vile names as
>>> marxist
>>> or refer to them being co-conspirators in a fraud?  I know your opinion
>>> about what I said.  What is your opinion of what Ed said, not as it
>> relates
>>> to me but as it relates generally to behavior of forum members? Do you
>> find
>>> such invective entertaining?  I'm trying to be serious here for a
>>> moment.
>> I
>>> am interested in your opinion because I haven't skirmished with you
>>> before
>>> and I really want a fresh thought on this?  Are you willing to put aside
>> the
>>> "reparte" for a moment and address this subject? You talk, I'll listen.
>>>
>>> Ben C.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just bent wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Herb
>>> > My pic is at the end of the post.     jb.jpg
>>> > Jb
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black, and
>>> see
>>> >> white in your post.
>>> >>
>>> >> Both are extremes.
>>> >>
>>> >> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
>>> >>
>>> >> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and was
>>> >> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll be
>>> >> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him on it.
>>> >>
>>> >> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests like
>>> >> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was watching
>>> >> them back down.
>>> >>
>>> >> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
>>> >>
>>> >> But then, there are worst things in life.
>>> >>
>>> >> Just bent wrote:
>>> >> > Herb.
>>> >> > do I look like an extreamist?
>>> >> > Jb
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > hparsons wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that
>>> way.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things
>> Ben....
>>> >> >> I'm not the only one ....
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> JbTek wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> Ben C.
>>> >> >>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like to
>> me.
>>> >> >>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least
>>> tolerated
>>> > but
>>> >> >>> threats are not.
>>> >> >>> Jb
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >> >>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>> >> >>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
>>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
>> ...
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a
>>> co-conspirator?
>>> >> It
>>> >> >>>> sure
>>> >> >>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening to
>> label
>>> > me
>>> >> >>>> as
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>> a
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to sue
>>> Ed?
>>> > No,
>>> >> >>>> but
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>> I
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a wonderfully
>>> >> >>>> developed
>>> >> >>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him) might
>>> have
>>> > such
>>> >> >>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Ben C.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Just bent wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
>>> >> >>>>> Jb
>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> >> >>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>> >> >>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or
>>> leading
>>> > ...
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Ed;
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist as
>>> you
>>> >> see
>>> >> >>>>>> it?
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> What
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view?  Does the 1st Amendment to
>>> our
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Constitution
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone a
>>> > marxist
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>> who
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>> is
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character? Do
>>> you
>>> > have
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>> any
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> life savings?  Inquiring minds want to know?
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Have a nice day.
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Ben C.
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> Ed,
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public about
>> his
>>> >> >>>>>>> relationship with Ayers.  This issue isn't going away and it
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> shouldn't
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> go away.  Speculation is strong and the evidence is growing
>> that
>>> > the
>>> >> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to Obama's
>>> >> days
>>> > in
>>> >> >>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and they
>>> were
>>> > both
>>> >> >>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost authored
>>> > Obama's
>>> >> >>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors
>> Ayer's
>>> >> >>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's second
>>> >> book
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> was
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level).  But let's forget speculation
>> for
>>> >> a
>>> >> >>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known.  I'm posting a link
>> instead
>>> > of
>>> >> >>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >
>> http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge that
>> Obama,
>>> >> >>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of the
>> same
>>> >> >>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the same
>>> law
>>> > firm.
>>> >> >>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements (which
>> by
>>> > the
>>> >> >>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for
>>> speaking
>>> >> but
>>> >> >>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period he
>> was
>>> > in
>>> >> >>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for the
>>> most
>>> > part
>>> >> >>>>>>> let him get away with it.
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly be
>>> > guilty
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> of
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> Brad
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle
>>> <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my own
>>> >> >>>>>>>> socioeconomic
>>> >> >>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..."  The term leadership
>>> > comprises
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> many
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> atributes.  And part of what are call traditional values is
>>> > simple
>>> >> >>>>>>>> honesty.
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on and
>>> > saying
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> hey,
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> "
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing.  Even if he is a
>>> Marxist
>> as
>>> > is
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Bill
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the
>>> truth.
>>> > In
>>> >> >>>>>>>> America a
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about it.
>> So
>>> > it
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> goes
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy?  If you know or
>>> should
>>> > have
>>> >> >>>>>>>> reasonable known something?  Are you obligated to say
>> something?
>>> > If
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> you
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> do
>>> >> >>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being commited is
>> he
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> obligated
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> to
>>> >> >>>>>>>> speak out?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
>>> >> >>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
>>> >> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for the Jews,
>>> >> >>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
>>> >> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
>>> >> >>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>  Then they came for me
>>> >> >>>>>>>>    and by that time no one was left to speak up.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>  --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the German
>>> > Confessing
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Church
>>> >> >>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
>>> > connection
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> at
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>> all
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who knew
>>> >> who,
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> where
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> and
>>> >> >>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue?  Saying that because most
>>> > others
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> deny
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that everybody
>>> >> else
>>> > in
>>> >> >>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k.  Saying his friends
>> deny
>>> > the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> issue
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> does not make it go away.  It is Richard Nixon's arguement
>>> all
>>> > over
>>> >> >>>>>>>> again.
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court, but
>>> do
>>> >> not
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> ask
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> them
>>> >> >>>>>>>> of yourself?  Are lawyers above the law?  Inquiring minds
>>> want
>>> >> to
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> know?
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ed K
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>> >> >>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
>>> >> >>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >
>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>> > go
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> to
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>> list
>>> > go
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>> to
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> -- 
>>> >> >>>>>> View this message in context:
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >
>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>> list
>>> >> go
>>> > to
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>> list
>> go
>>> > to
>>> >> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>> -- 
>>> >> >>>> View this message in context:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >
>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>> go
>>> > to
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>> go
>>> >> to
>>> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>> go
>> to
>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> > http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
>>> >> >
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>> to
>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> > __________________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20101056.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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