[Rhodes22-list] Legal: Ben Please Help

Tue Oct 21 21:12:54 EDT 2008

Ben,

It looks like there's a disconnect between the INS and State Dept
(imagine that).  The INS requires  you to give up your previous
citizenship. It looks like US State "discourages" dual citizenship but
doesn't completely disallow it. The attorney we consulted concentrated
primarily on INS law and probably wasn't aware of State's position.
We certainly weren't. We had a real estate contract pending in China
at the time and couldn't figure out how to work it both ways so we
used alternative means of "doing the deal".

Brad

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Ben Cittadino <bcittadino at dcs-law.com> wrote:
>
> Brad;
>
> But if you start out as a US citizen are you saying it works the same way?
> Can you then not also be a citizen of another country.  What about the state
> department link earlier in this thread?
>
> Ben C.
>
> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>
>> Hank,
>>
>> You are correct.  The US does not recognize dual citizenship.  When
>> you naturalize as a US citizen you are required to formally denounce
>> allegiance to all other foreign powers.  Some other countries do
>> recognize dual citizenship but if you get caught holding a passport
>> from a foreign country while holding a US passport, "you got some
>> 'esplainin' to do".  We looked into the issue while waiting for my
>> wife's citizenship to come through (thought it might be good for
>> business down the road) and were told by an immigration attorney, "not
>> no, but Hell NO'".
>>
>> The case with Obama is this, did his step-father adopt him?  No one
>> knows the answer nor has the legal implications been fully tested..
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> I'm not so sure that you are correct.  My wife is originally from Mexico.
>>> When she received her naturalized US citizenship in 1997, she was
>>> required
>>> by INS to formally renounce hew Mexican Citizenship.  We were told that
>>> the
>>> US does not recognize dual citizenship but that other countries do.  As
>>> far
>>> as the US was concerned, she was solely an American Citizen.
>>>
>>> I found this at http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html.
>>>
>>> " A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a)
>>> of
>>> the INA [8 USC § 1448
>>> <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1448.html>(a)].
>>> Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of
>>> the oath, a new citizen must pledge "to renounce and abjure absolutely
>>> and
>>> entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
>>> state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject
>>> or
>>> citizen."
>>>
>>> However, this state dept webpage seems to refute our experience.
>>> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
>>>
>>> Maybe it was a policy of INS back then that is no longer enforced.  Maybe
>>> two different departments in the same government are contradicting
>>> themselves?  Nah, that isn't possible.
>>>
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Ben Cittadino
>>> <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill;
>>>>
>>>> If this question was addressed to me ( and it may not have been ) the
>>>> answer
>>>> is that if your mother never "formally renounced" her US citizenship
>>>> then
>>>> she was a native born American citizen the entire time although she may
>>>> have
>>>> held duel citizenship for part of the time. She can be President.
>>>>
>>>> Americans can be duel citizens but often other countries require that
>>>> you
>>>> make a choice.  For example I believe Japanese citizens who become
>>>> American
>>>> citizens are deemed to have renounced their Japanese citizenship.
>>>>
>>>> Also, remember this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Ben Cittadino
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Ben,
>>>> >
>>>> > My mother was born in NYC in 1917 to Dutch parents with a business in
>>>> > the United States.  After WWI she went to Holland with her parents,
>>>> and
>>>> > enjoyed the benefits of Dutch citizenship.
>>>> >
>>>> > In 1938, before her 21st birthday, her parents arranged for her to
>>>> > return to the United States to claim her American Citizenship, which
>>>> she
>>>> > would otherwise have  lost, owing to her exercise of Dutch
>>>> Citizenship.
>>>> > She traveled to the United States on a US Passport, and remained here
>>>> as
>>>> > a United States citizen.
>>>> >
>>>> > It was my understanding that she was not eligible to run for President
>>>> > of the United States because she was a Dutch citizen as a child and
>>>> had
>>>> > to reclaim her American citizenship, and thus became a "naturalized"
>>>> > rather than "native born" citizen.
>>>> >
>>>> > Do I have this wrong?  Is there still a chance for my mother to become
>>>> > President?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bill Effros
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
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