[Rhodes22-list] Legal: Ben Please Help
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Tue Oct 21 21:21:58 EDT 2008
Well, at a minimum, I feel much better of my confusion ;)
Brad Haslett wrote:
> Ben,
>
> It looks like there's a disconnect between the INS and State Dept
> (imagine that). The INS requires you to give up your previous
> citizenship. It looks like US State "discourages" dual citizenship but
> doesn't completely disallow it. The attorney we consulted concentrated
> primarily on INS law and probably wasn't aware of State's position.
> We certainly weren't. We had a real estate contract pending in China
> at the time and couldn't figure out how to work it both ways so we
> used alternative means of "doing the deal".
>
> Brad
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Ben Cittadino <bcittadino at dcs-law.com> wrote:
>
>> Brad;
>>
>> But if you start out as a US citizen are you saying it works the same way?
>> Can you then not also be a citizen of another country. What about the state
>> department link earlier in this thread?
>>
>> Ben C.
>>
>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>
>>> Hank,
>>>
>>> You are correct. The US does not recognize dual citizenship. When
>>> you naturalize as a US citizen you are required to formally denounce
>>> allegiance to all other foreign powers. Some other countries do
>>> recognize dual citizenship but if you get caught holding a passport
>>> from a foreign country while holding a US passport, "you got some
>>> 'esplainin' to do". We looked into the issue while waiting for my
>>> wife's citizenship to come through (thought it might be good for
>>> business down the road) and were told by an immigration attorney, "not
>>> no, but Hell NO'".
>>>
>>> The case with Obama is this, did his step-father adopt him? No one
>>> knows the answer nor has the legal implications been fully tested..
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not so sure that you are correct. My wife is originally from Mexico.
>>>> When she received her naturalized US citizenship in 1997, she was
>>>> required
>>>> by INS to formally renounce hew Mexican Citizenship. We were told that
>>>> the
>>>> US does not recognize dual citizenship but that other countries do. As
>>>> far
>>>> as the US was concerned, she was solely an American Citizen.
>>>>
>>>> I found this at http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html.
>>>>
>>>> " A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a)
>>>> of
>>>> the INA [8 USC § 1448
>>>> <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1448.html>(a)].
>>>> Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of
>>>> the oath, a new citizen must pledge "to renounce and abjure absolutely
>>>> and
>>>> entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
>>>> state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject
>>>> or
>>>> citizen."
>>>>
>>>> However, this state dept webpage seems to refute our experience.
>>>> http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it was a policy of INS back then that is no longer enforced. Maybe
>>>> two different departments in the same government are contradicting
>>>> themselves? Nah, that isn't possible.
>>>>
>>>> Hank
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:10 PM, Ben Cittadino
>>>> <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bill;
>>>>>
>>>>> If this question was addressed to me ( and it may not have been ) the
>>>>> answer
>>>>> is that if your mother never "formally renounced" her US citizenship
>>>>> then
>>>>> she was a native born American citizen the entire time although she may
>>>>> have
>>>>> held duel citizenship for part of the time. She can be President.
>>>>>
>>>>> Americans can be duel citizens but often other countries require that
>>>>> you
>>>>> make a choice. For example I believe Japanese citizens who become
>>>>> American
>>>>> citizens are deemed to have renounced their Japanese citizenship.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, remember this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben Cittadino
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My mother was born in NYC in 1917 to Dutch parents with a business in
>>>>>> the United States. After WWI she went to Holland with her parents,
>>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> enjoyed the benefits of Dutch citizenship.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In 1938, before her 21st birthday, her parents arranged for her to
>>>>>> return to the United States to claim her American Citizenship, which
>>>>>>
>>>>> she
>>>>>
>>>>>> would otherwise have lost, owing to her exercise of Dutch
>>>>>>
>>>>> Citizenship.
>>>>>
>>>>>> She traveled to the United States on a US Passport, and remained here
>>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>>> a United States citizen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was my understanding that she was not eligible to run for President
>>>>>> of the United States because she was a Dutch citizen as a child and
>>>>>>
>>>>> had
>>>>>
>>>>>> to reclaim her American citizenship, and thus became a "naturalized"
>>>>>> rather than "native born" citizen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I have this wrong? Is there still a chance for my mother to become
>>>>>> President?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
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