[Rhodes22-list] Re spect
Hank
hnw555 at gmail.com
Thu Oct 23 15:32:07 EDT 2008
Neat little tool. For most of the questions I was able to find a statement
that I pretty much agreed with.
My scores were:
On Non-Fiscal Issues, you rank as a *Strong Conservative (85)*.
On Fiscal Issues, you rank as a *Moderate Conservative (62)*.
Your score is on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being fully liberal and 100
being fully conservative.
Hank
On 10/23/08, David Bradley <dwbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The past day's exchange got me thinking about what does it mean to be
> moderate and what does it mean to be extreme and who among us really
> represents the "middle" of America (per your comment, Brad).
>
> I think the stats would say the middle of America in political
> spectrum terms is undecided at the moment on who to vote for.
>
> So I did a quick search on "politcal spectrum test" and tried one of
> the self-tests (not to be confused with the Asshole self-test). I
> have no idea how valid or invalid the methodology might be but I
> thought it was interesting and it pegged me right where I see myself
> (see the test output here):
>
> On Non-Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Moderate Liberal (26).
> On Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Centrist (49).
> Your score is on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being fully liberal and
> 100 being fully conservative.
>
> Here is the link: http://www.politicalbrew.com/politest.cgi
>
> Give it a try.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> wrote:
> > Your right, you provided the label, and I kept it. It's sarcasm.
> >
> > You initially labeled my position extreme:
> > "I understand that neither you nor I would not display such a sticker,
> > but I think that your *ultimate position* is extreme"
> > (my emphasis).
> >
> > Now you seem to be parsing things a bit, or clarification, whichever you
> > prefer, and state that is not my belief that's extreme, but rather my
> > action.
> >
> > "And so it goes. Standing up for ones beliefs does not make one extreme.
> > The proposed action was viewed as extreme, not the belief nor the
> person."
> >
> > I can't quite discern the difference between "position" and "belief" in
> > this context, but I'll give it to you anyway:
> >
> > An extremist is one who is extreme, holds extreme views, or participates
> > in extreme actions. As I stated, I added the "ist". And, I do enjoy the
> > label, when I use it, I use it sarcastically, because I think your label
> > is foolishness. However, whether it's accurate, inaccurate, enjoyed, or
> > despised, you did indeed label my action as "extreme". And it's I that
> > you labeled extreme, so the "ist" is appropriate.
> >
> > A little more on the belief, position, action, whatever, that you found
> > extreme:
> >
> > I think the "freedom of speech" issue is one of the most misunderstood,
> > and misinterpreted, parts of our constitution.
> >
> > I'm sorry my friend, you have little guarantee to the right of freedom
> > of speech. You are not guaranteed that you can freely speak your
> > opinions, or that doing so will not have repercussions. Go back and
> > re-read the first amendment. What you DO have is a constitutional
> > guarantee that the GOVERNMENT will not abridge your freedom of speech.
> >
> > I'm not the government. I can abridge your freedom of speech, and am
> > allowed to do so through a wide variety of methods.
> >
> > If I tell a merchant that I will never purchase something from him
> > because I think his sales of material advocating the murder of a
> > Presidential candidate is wrong, I am doing nothing wrong, nor am I
> > taking away any of his freedoms, I'm merely exercising one of my own.
> >
> > As a matter fact, I would have the same option to personally boycott him
> > for his political views (though I personally would not).
> >
> > The latter I would view as extreme. The former, not so much. And if it
> > is, then it's only because we've become such a nation of panty-waists
> > that we fear the repercussions of doing the right thing.
> >
> > I have no problem whatsoever telling a merchant that's selling a picture
> > of Obama with a scope target on him, comparing him to Martin Luther
> > King, that he's wrong, and I won't do business with him (which is what I
> > did in this case, though I never heard back).
> >
> > And, as I answered in your question, I'd do the same with the boss of my
> > company.
> >
> >
> > Michael D. Weisner wrote:
> >> Herb,
> >>
> >> Actually, you adopted the label "extreme", I merely commented on your
> position. You actually appeared to enjoy displaying your self adopted
> descriptor (read the last referenced post.) The exchange went as follows:
> >>
> >> from HParsons:
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055687.html
> >> I think someone needs to print bumper stickers that say:
> >> "Palin for VP"from MWeisner:
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055696.html
> >> Herb,
> >> Just for you, I found these sites:
> >> {link}, {link}
> >> Both featuring Palin bumper stickers. The Zazzle site has my
> favorites.
> >> Herb's bumper sticker:
> >> "I'm voting for Sarah
> >> and that guy she's running with"
> >> {link}
> >> "I'm Pullin' For Pallin"
> >> {link}
> >> and let's not forget the real reason that she's on the ticket:
> >> "Sarah Palin
> >> Hockey Mom I'd Like to Puck"
> >>
> >> from HParsons:
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055716.html
> >> Frazzle had some interesting ones, and some I even like, but sorry, I
> >> couldn't purchase from a company that was selling this one: {link} I
> think sometimes people let "freedom of speech" go too far. That was a an
> example.
> >>
> >> from MWeisner:
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055721.html
> >> As far as the "NOBAMA ..." goes, I tend to think that it is in bad
> taste, but I hesitate to place restrictions on "freedom of speech" - I think
> that is called censure. Who are the people that "let 'freedom of speech'
> go too far?"
> >>
> >> Why couldn't you purchase from a company that permits people to
> display bad taste? I would think that there are very few companies that you
> can purchase from in the world today, if this is your yardstick for doing
> business. Can you purchase from Wal-Mart? They will place most anything
> that sells on their shelves.
> >>
> >> I understand that neither you nor I would not display such a sticker,
> but I think that your ultimate position is extreme.
> >>
> >> from HParsons:
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055728.html
> >> "Couldn't" might have been the wrong word, wouldn't is likely more
> appropriate. I think people totally misunderstand the "Freedom of Speech"
> issue. Yes, by all means this company has the right to sell them, and I
> would in no means want to legally restrict that right.
> >>
> >> However, I not only have the right, but I feel I have the moral duty
> to determine for myself, who I'm going to support.
> >>
> >> When a company feels it's proper (and I believe it goes beyond "bad
> taste") to sell bumper stickers advocating the killing of another human
> being because of their distaste for that person, that's enough for me that I
> would not purchase from them.
> >>
> >> Yes, Wal-Mart has things that are in bad taste, but not that bad. I
> don't mind buy from a Wal-Mart that sells cigarettes, nor do I mind buying
> from one that sells ashtrays that say "put your butt here" and shaped like a
> pig's butt. However, if they sold KKK banners, I'd be shopping elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Call it extreme if you like, I don't mind being extreme.
> >> And so it goes. Standing up for ones beliefs does not make one
> extreme. The proposed action was viewed as extreme, not the belief nor the
> person.
> >>
> >> Herb is a self titled extremist, although he has no argument against his
> claim from me.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
> >> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>
> >>
> >> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Thursday, October
> 23, 2008 4:15 AM
> >> Actually, it was Michael Weisner that labeled me "extreme" (I added the
> >> "ist", but it's just another way to say the same thing) because, get
> >> this - I said I wouldn't purchase a bumper sticker from a company the
> >> also sells bumper stickers advocating the killing of a political
> >> candidate. That was an "extreme" position according to Michael. So, I
> >> adopted the label. It probably does fit me, but wow.... Standing up for
> >> what you believe is no "extreme". Sad state of affairs.
> >>
> >> As to the asshole thing - "Some frequency"???? I think maybe you should
> >> go back and look again. As a matter of fact, I challenge you on it. I
> >> think you're either mistaken, or a liar, plain and simple (and I really
> >> do believe it's the former, not the latter).
> >>
> >> I recently called Ben one, because of his (I'll grant him and you,
> >> perceived) threat about legal action.
> >>
> >> I called Slim one when he stated that I was "non-chalant" about
> >> soldier's deaths. If he had said that one to my face, I'd have done a
> >> lot more than call him an asshole.
> >>
> >> And, there was the time when Robert didn't like me responding to one of
> >> his messages, and referred to me as "Mr. Herb
> >> Always-has-to-have-the-last-word Parsons" and I told him to quit acting
> >> like one (you know, the whole name-calling thing that some of you think
> >> is so bad, depending, of course, on who it's aimed at).
> >>
> >> That's 2, 3 if you count the "acting like". I post here a LOT and I
> >> don't think 2 or 3 posts would really qualify as "frequent". But then, I
> >> wouldn't have thought my position mentioned earlier as "extreme".
> >>
> >> Looking at the past email in my system, Brad tends to call folks that as
> >> well, one notable case was aimed at Pete. I seem to have gotten credit
> >> for that one a couple of times, but twarn't me (though I didn't
> disagree).
> >>
> >> Seems you're paying quite a bit of attention to what you don't like me
> >> doing, and ignoring the rest. Would you like the examples of the implied
> >> racists, stated extremist, talk about "debaters vs just believers" and
> >> all the other nonsense on here?
> >>
> >> Somehow, some folks on here seem to think it's cute, intelligent, or
> >> somehow honorable to imply something about someone, and then rude for
> >> another person to say something outright.
> >>
> >> I disagree. Strongly.
> >>
> >> I say that when Rob writes "I've been saying for some time that the
> >> Democrats are the party for thinkers and debaters while the Republicans
> >> just believe" he's saying something about ME. Something that is a lie.
> >> I'm a Republican, and he says I don't have the capacity (or choose not
> >> to exercise it) to think and debate, but I simply blindly believe.
> >>
> >> Not only does he say it, he proudly admits he's been "saying for some
> time".
> >>
> >> And that's somehow polite and OK, but asshole is not?
> >>
> >> Wow. I'll simply have to disagree on this one.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> David Bradley wrote:
> >>
> >>> Herb, I assume you are reading the list and it's an open forum. My
> >>> reply was voiced to Ben in answer to his question, but it was for you.
> >>> I stand by my statements. You label yourself as extreme, and I
> >>> agree. I don't recall anyone directly calling you a racist or a
> >>> religous kook or a bigot. I do recall you telling people they are an
> >>> asshole with some frequency. I think you degrade the experience for
> >>> all.
> >>>
> >>> My opinion. Call me what you will.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Gee Davey, I wish I wuz smart like you. I thinks ah did a little give
> >>>> and take, but I definitely didn't run Ben down to someone else and
> >>>> pretend he couldn't see what I was saying.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll give Ben this much, he has an issue with someone, he addresses it
> >>>> to them directly, not as an aside to someone else.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> David Bradley wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ben, your posts are appreciated by what I suspect is a silent
> >>>>> majority, even if a slim one. Herb is to the right of 99% of the
> >>>>> population, loves to pick a fight and is first to escalate the tone
> >>>>> and begin the name calling. He would have been thrown out of any bar
> >>>>> I've ever hung out in long ago. Most of us just don't bother to
> >>>>> reason with him because there is no reasoning, no give and take.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Benjamin Cittadino
> >>>>> <bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Paul;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I appreciate the sentiment. Thanks for the thought. Frankly, I'm
> >>>>>> reassessing my role here and whether it makes sense to participate
> further,
> >>>>>> at least as to the political stuff.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> pdgrand wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ben,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not Jb but I'd like to weigh in on the subject. As I said in
> the
> >>>>>>> past, I used to especially enjoy the political debating between
> Brad &
> >>>>>>> Bill in past election cycles. They didn't get personal and they
> kept it
> >>>>>>> respectful. Bill seems to be sitting this one out, leaving you,
> Pete &
> >>>>>>> some others to lead the arguements for the left against Brad, Herb
> & Ed on
> >>>>>>> the right. Personally, I don't recall reading anything from you
> that I
> >>>>>>> would term offensive. Others obviously disagree. Discussing
> politics
> >>>>>>> often evokes different levels of emotion in different
> people. Let's keep
> >>>>>>> the lively debate going, but everyone needs to work on not taking
> things
> >>>>>>> personally or getting personal with a reply to what may only be a
> >>>>>>> perceived insult (which you have done for the most part). In other
> words,
> >>>>>>> everyone just needs to lighten up.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dear Jb;
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I am curious. Do you see no problem with Ed's post at the
> beginning of
> >>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>> thread? Is it OK for members to call each other such vile names as
> >>>>>>>> marxist
> >>>>>>>> or refer to them being co-conspirators in a fraud? I know your
> opinion
> >>>>>>>> about what I said. What is your opinion of what Ed said, not as
> it
> >>>>>>>> relates
> >>>>>>>> to me but as it relates generally to behavior of forum members? Do
> you
> >>>>>>>> find
> >>>>>>>> such invective entertaining? I'm trying to be serious here for a
> moment.
> >>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>> am interested in your opinion because I haven't skirmished with
> you
> >>>>>>>> before
> >>>>>>>> and I really want a fresh thought on this? Are you willing to put
> aside
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> "reparte" for a moment and address this subject? You talk, I'll
> listen.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Herb
> >>>>>>>>> My pic is at the end of the post. jb.jpg
> >>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
> ...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black,
> and see
> >>>>>>>>>> white in your post.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Both are extremes.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and
> was
> >>>>>>>>>> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll
> be
> >>>>>>>>>> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him
> on it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests
> like
> >>>>>>>>>> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was
> watching
> >>>>>>>>>> them back down.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But then, there are worst things in life.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Herb.
> >>>>>>>>>>> do I look like an extreamist?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> hparsons wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that
> way.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ben....
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not the only one ....
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> JbTek wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> me.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least
> tolerated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> threats are not.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or
> leading
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a
> co-conspirator?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> label
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> me
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to
> sue Ed?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a
> wonderfully
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> developed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him)
> might have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> such
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or
> leading
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed;
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist
> as you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view? Does the 1st Amendment
> to our
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Constitution
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> marxist
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character?
> Do you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life savings? Inquiring minds want to know?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a nice day.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public
> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> his
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship with Ayers. This issue isn't going away and
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go away. Speculation is strong and the evidence is
> growing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to
> Obama's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> days
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and
> they were
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> both
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost
> authored
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Obama's
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ayer's
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's
> second
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> book
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level). But let's forget
> speculation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known. I'm posting a link
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> instead
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Obama,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> same
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the
> same law
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> firm.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements
> (which
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for
> speaking
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period
> he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for
> the most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> part
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let him get away with it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly
> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> guilty
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle <
> ekroposki at charter.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my
> own
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socioeconomic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..." The term
> leadership
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> comprises
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atributes. And part of what are call traditional values
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> simple
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> saying
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing. Even if he is a
> Marxist
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the
> truth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about
> it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy? If you know or
> should
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable known something? Are you obligated to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> something?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being
> commited is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obligated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speak out?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the Jews,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade
> unionist.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for me
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and by that time no one was left to speak up.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the
> German
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Confessing
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Church
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> connection
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who
> knew
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> who,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue? Saying that because
> most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> others
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deny
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that
> everybody
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> else
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k. Saying his
> friends
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> deny
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not make it go away. It is Richard Nixon's
> arguement all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> over
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court,
> but do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ask
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of yourself? Are lawyers above the law? Inquiring
> minds want
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>>>>>
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20101056.html
> >>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20122113.html
> >>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David Bradley
> +1.206.234.3977
> dwbrad at gmail.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
More information about the Rhodes22-list
mailing list