[Rhodes22-list] Re spect
Just bent
j.bulfer at jbtek.com
Fri Oct 24 13:13:36 EDT 2008
took the test.
On Non-Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Centrist (60).
On Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Moderate Conservative (75).
Jb
David Bradley wrote:
>
> The past day's exchange got me thinking about what does it mean to be
> moderate and what does it mean to be extreme and who among us really
> represents the "middle" of America (per your comment, Brad).
>
> I think the stats would say the middle of America in political
> spectrum terms is undecided at the moment on who to vote for.
>
> So I did a quick search on "politcal spectrum test" and tried one of
> the self-tests (not to be confused with the Asshole self-test). I
> have no idea how valid or invalid the methodology might be but I
> thought it was interesting and it pegged me right where I see myself
> (see the test output here):
>
> On Non-Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Moderate Liberal (26).
> On Fiscal Issues, you rank as a Centrist (49).
> Your score is on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being fully liberal and
> 100 being fully conservative.
>
> Here is the link: http://www.politicalbrew.com/politest.cgi
>
> Give it a try.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> wrote:
>> Your right, you provided the label, and I kept it. It's sarcasm.
>>
>> You initially labeled my position extreme:
>> "I understand that neither you nor I would not display such a sticker,
>> but I think that your *ultimate position* is extreme"
>> (my emphasis).
>>
>> Now you seem to be parsing things a bit, or clarification, whichever you
>> prefer, and state that is not my belief that's extreme, but rather my
>> action.
>>
>> "And so it goes. Standing up for ones beliefs does not make one extreme.
>> The proposed action was viewed as extreme, not the belief nor the
>> person."
>>
>> I can't quite discern the difference between "position" and "belief" in
>> this context, but I'll give it to you anyway:
>>
>> An extremist is one who is extreme, holds extreme views, or participates
>> in extreme actions. As I stated, I added the "ist". And, I do enjoy the
>> label, when I use it, I use it sarcastically, because I think your label
>> is foolishness. However, whether it's accurate, inaccurate, enjoyed, or
>> despised, you did indeed label my action as "extreme". And it's I that
>> you labeled extreme, so the "ist" is appropriate.
>>
>> A little more on the belief, position, action, whatever, that you found
>> extreme:
>>
>> I think the "freedom of speech" issue is one of the most misunderstood,
>> and misinterpreted, parts of our constitution.
>>
>> I'm sorry my friend, you have little guarantee to the right of freedom
>> of speech. You are not guaranteed that you can freely speak your
>> opinions, or that doing so will not have repercussions. Go back and
>> re-read the first amendment. What you DO have is a constitutional
>> guarantee that the GOVERNMENT will not abridge your freedom of speech.
>>
>> I'm not the government. I can abridge your freedom of speech, and am
>> allowed to do so through a wide variety of methods.
>>
>> If I tell a merchant that I will never purchase something from him
>> because I think his sales of material advocating the murder of a
>> Presidential candidate is wrong, I am doing nothing wrong, nor am I
>> taking away any of his freedoms, I'm merely exercising one of my own.
>>
>> As a matter fact, I would have the same option to personally boycott him
>> for his political views (though I personally would not).
>>
>> The latter I would view as extreme. The former, not so much. And if it
>> is, then it's only because we've become such a nation of panty-waists
>> that we fear the repercussions of doing the right thing.
>>
>> I have no problem whatsoever telling a merchant that's selling a picture
>> of Obama with a scope target on him, comparing him to Martin Luther
>> King, that he's wrong, and I won't do business with him (which is what I
>> did in this case, though I never heard back).
>>
>> And, as I answered in your question, I'd do the same with the boss of my
>> company.
>>
>>
>> Michael D. Weisner wrote:
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Actually, you adopted the label "extreme", I merely commented on your
>>> position. You actually appeared to enjoy displaying your self adopted
>>> descriptor (read the last referenced post.) The exchange went as
>>> follows:
>>>
>>> from HParsons:
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055687.html
>>> I think someone needs to print bumper stickers that say:
>>> "Palin for VP"from MWeisner:
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055696.html
>>> Herb,
>>> Just for you, I found these sites:
>>> {link}, {link}
>>> Both featuring Palin bumper stickers. The Zazzle site has my
>>> favorites.
>>> Herb's bumper sticker:
>>> "I'm voting for Sarah
>>> and that guy she's running with"
>>> {link}
>>> "I'm Pullin' For Pallin"
>>> {link}
>>> and let's not forget the real reason that she's on the ticket:
>>> "Sarah Palin
>>> Hockey Mom I'd Like to Puck"
>>>
>>> from HParsons:
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055716.html
>>> Frazzle had some interesting ones, and some I even like, but sorry, I
>>> couldn't purchase from a company that was selling this one: {link} I
>>> think sometimes people let "freedom of speech" go too far. That was a an
>>> example.
>>>
>>> from MWeisner:
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055721.html
>>> As far as the "NOBAMA ..." goes, I tend to think that it is in bad
>>> taste, but I hesitate to place restrictions on "freedom of speech" - I
>>> think that is called censure. Who are the people that "let 'freedom of
>>> speech' go too far?"
>>>
>>> Why couldn't you purchase from a company that permits people to
>>> display bad taste? I would think that there are very few companies that
>>> you can purchase from in the world today, if this is your yardstick for
>>> doing business. Can you purchase from Wal-Mart? They will place most
>>> anything that sells on their shelves.
>>>
>>> I understand that neither you nor I would not display such a sticker,
>>> but I think that your ultimate position is extreme.
>>>
>>> from HParsons:
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2008-October/055728.html
>>> "Couldn't" might have been the wrong word, wouldn't is likely more
>>> appropriate. I think people totally misunderstand the "Freedom of
>>> Speech" issue. Yes, by all means this company has the right to sell
>>> them, and I would in no means want to legally restrict that right.
>>>
>>> However, I not only have the right, but I feel I have the moral duty
>>> to determine for myself, who I'm going to support.
>>>
>>> When a company feels it's proper (and I believe it goes beyond "bad
>>> taste") to sell bumper stickers advocating the killing of another human
>>> being because of their distaste for that person, that's enough for me
>>> that I would not purchase from them.
>>>
>>> Yes, Wal-Mart has things that are in bad taste, but not that bad. I
>>> don't mind buy from a Wal-Mart that sells cigarettes, nor do I mind
>>> buying from one that sells ashtrays that say "put your butt here" and
>>> shaped like a pig's butt. However, if they sold KKK banners, I'd be
>>> shopping elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Call it extreme if you like, I don't mind being extreme.
>>> And so it goes. Standing up for ones beliefs does not make one extreme.
>>> The proposed action was viewed as extreme, not the belief nor the
>>> person.
>>>
>>> Herb is a self titled extremist, although he has no argument against his
>>> claim from me.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>Sent: Thursday, October 23,
>>> 2008 4:15 AM
>>> Actually, it was Michael Weisner that labeled me "extreme" (I added the
>>> "ist", but it's just another way to say the same thing) because, get
>>> this - I said I wouldn't purchase a bumper sticker from a company the
>>> also sells bumper stickers advocating the killing of a political
>>> candidate. That was an "extreme" position according to Michael. So, I
>>> adopted the label. It probably does fit me, but wow.... Standing up for
>>> what you believe is no "extreme". Sad state of affairs.
>>>
>>> As to the asshole thing - "Some frequency"???? I think maybe you should
>>> go back and look again. As a matter of fact, I challenge you on it. I
>>> think you're either mistaken, or a liar, plain and simple (and I really
>>> do believe it's the former, not the latter).
>>>
>>> I recently called Ben one, because of his (I'll grant him and you,
>>> perceived) threat about legal action.
>>>
>>> I called Slim one when he stated that I was "non-chalant" about
>>> soldier's deaths. If he had said that one to my face, I'd have done a
>>> lot more than call him an asshole.
>>>
>>> And, there was the time when Robert didn't like me responding to one of
>>> his messages, and referred to me as "Mr. Herb
>>> Always-has-to-have-the-last-word Parsons" and I told him to quit acting
>>> like one (you know, the whole name-calling thing that some of you think
>>> is so bad, depending, of course, on who it's aimed at).
>>>
>>> That's 2, 3 if you count the "acting like". I post here a LOT and I
>>> don't think 2 or 3 posts would really qualify as "frequent". But then, I
>>> wouldn't have thought my position mentioned earlier as "extreme".
>>>
>>> Looking at the past email in my system, Brad tends to call folks that as
>>> well, one notable case was aimed at Pete. I seem to have gotten credit
>>> for that one a couple of times, but twarn't me (though I didn't
>>> disagree).
>>>
>>> Seems you're paying quite a bit of attention to what you don't like me
>>> doing, and ignoring the rest. Would you like the examples of the implied
>>> racists, stated extremist, talk about "debaters vs just believers" and
>>> all the other nonsense on here?
>>>
>>> Somehow, some folks on here seem to think it's cute, intelligent, or
>>> somehow honorable to imply something about someone, and then rude for
>>> another person to say something outright.
>>>
>>> I disagree. Strongly.
>>>
>>> I say that when Rob writes "I've been saying for some time that the
>>> Democrats are the party for thinkers and debaters while the Republicans
>>> just believe" he's saying something about ME. Something that is a lie.
>>> I'm a Republican, and he says I don't have the capacity (or choose not
>>> to exercise it) to think and debate, but I simply blindly believe.
>>>
>>> Not only does he say it, he proudly admits he's been "saying for some
>>> time".
>>>
>>> And that's somehow polite and OK, but asshole is not?
>>>
>>> Wow. I'll simply have to disagree on this one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Bradley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Herb, I assume you are reading the list and it's an open forum. My
>>>> reply was voiced to Ben in answer to his question, but it was for you.
>>>> I stand by my statements. You label yourself as extreme, and I
>>>> agree. I don't recall anyone directly calling you a racist or a
>>>> religous kook or a bigot. I do recall you telling people they are an
>>>> asshole with some frequency. I think you degrade the experience for
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>>> My opinion. Call me what you will.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Gee Davey, I wish I wuz smart like you. I thinks ah did a little give
>>>>> and take, but I definitely didn't run Ben down to someone else and
>>>>> pretend he couldn't see what I was saying.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll give Ben this much, he has an issue with someone, he addresses it
>>>>> to them directly, not as an aside to someone else.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Bradley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben, your posts are appreciated by what I suspect is a silent
>>>>>> majority, even if a slim one. Herb is to the right of 99% of the
>>>>>> population, loves to pick a fight and is first to escalate the tone
>>>>>> and begin the name calling. He would have been thrown out of any bar
>>>>>> I've ever hung out in long ago. Most of us just don't bother to
>>>>>> reason with him because there is no reasoning, no give and take.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Benjamin Cittadino
>>>>>> <bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the sentiment. Thanks for the thought. Frankly, I'm
>>>>>>> reassessing my role here and whether it makes sense to participate
>>>>>>> further,
>>>>>>> at least as to the political stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pdgrand wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not Jb but I'd like to weigh in on the subject. As I said in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> past, I used to especially enjoy the political debating between
>>>>>>>> Brad &
>>>>>>>> Bill in past election cycles. They didn't get personal and they
>>>>>>>> kept it
>>>>>>>> respectful. Bill seems to be sitting this one out, leaving you,
>>>>>>>> Pete &
>>>>>>>> some others to lead the arguements for the left against Brad, Herb
>>>>>>>> & Ed on
>>>>>>>> the right. Personally, I don't recall reading anything from you
>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>> would term offensive. Others obviously disagree. Discussing
>>>>>>>> politics
>>>>>>>> often evokes different levels of emotion in different people.
>>>>>>>> Let's keep
>>>>>>>> the lively debate going, but everyone needs to work on not taking
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> personally or getting personal with a reply to what may only be a
>>>>>>>> perceived insult (which you have done for the most part). In other
>>>>>>>> words,
>>>>>>>> everyone just needs to lighten up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Jb;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am curious. Do you see no problem with Ed's post at the
>>>>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> thread? Is it OK for members to call each other such vile names as
>>>>>>>>> marxist
>>>>>>>>> or refer to them being co-conspirators in a fraud? I know your
>>>>>>>>> opinion
>>>>>>>>> about what I said. What is your opinion of what Ed said, not as
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> relates
>>>>>>>>> to me but as it relates generally to behavior of forum members? Do
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> such invective entertaining? I'm trying to be serious here for a
>>>>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> am interested in your opinion because I haven't skirmished with
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> and I really want a fresh thought on this? Are you willing to put
>>>>>>>>> aside
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> "reparte" for a moment and address this subject? You talk, I'll
>>>>>>>>> listen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>>>>> My pic is at the end of the post. jb.jpg
>>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black,
>>>>>>>>>>> and see
>>>>>>>>>>> white in your post.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Both are extremes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him
>>>>>>>>>>> on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was
>>>>>>>>>>> watching
>>>>>>>>>>> them back down.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But then, there are worst things in life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb.
>>>>>>>>>>>> do I look like an extreamist?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hparsons wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ben....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not the only one ....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JbTek wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tolerated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threats are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> co-conspirator?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> label
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sue Ed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view? Does the 1st Amendment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Constitution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> marxist
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life savings? Inquiring minds want to know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a nice day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship with Ayers. This issue isn't going away and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go away. Speculation is strong and the evidence is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> authored
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Obama's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ayer's
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level). But let's forget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known. I'm posting a link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same law
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> firm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let him get away with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> guilty
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socioeconomic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..." The term
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> comprises
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atributes. And part of what are call traditional values
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing. Even if he is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marxist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy? If you know or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable known something? Are you obligated to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> something?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commited is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obligated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speak out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the Jews,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unionist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and by that time no one was left to speak up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The Reverend Martin Niemöller, a pastor in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Confessing
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Church
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> connection
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> who,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue? Saying that because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everybody
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k. Saying his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> deny
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not make it go away. It is Richard Nixon's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arguement all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of yourself? Are lawyers above the law? Inquiring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minds want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20101056.html
>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20122113.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Bradley
> +1.206.234.3977
> dwbrad at gmail.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
>
>
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