[Rhodes22-list] Ben C - what I hear...

[Brad Haslett]

Herb,

They told me if George W Bush was elected President the government
would investigate your personal life and THEY WERE RIGHT!

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101

How dare a non-Rhodes Scholar question Dear Leader!

Brad

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> C'mon Brad, you have to be completely forthright. Those that didn't like
> the governments in China and Russia, those that didn't prefer long
> lines, those that were willing to speak up had an alternative.
>
> Their graves are scattered across the countryside, usually in unknown
> locations.
>
>
> Brad Haslett wrote:
>> Ed,
>>
>> Fan and I had a "state of family finances" summit this afternoon.
>> We've had to discuss finances more often in the last three years than
>> we did in the first seven because of my construction company and
>> airplane, but, we've sacrificed and have almost paid off all the
>> business debt. Our home is a roof over our head and we don't think of
>> it as an investment, so its value at any point in time is of little
>> concern. Our "real" financial investments have lost 30 to 40 per cent
>> in the last few weeks.  This afternoon we had a "do we despair or not"
>> conversation.
>>
>> We decided, NOT!
>>
>> My path was a little easier than hers.  Dad was never unemployed for
>> long despite only having had an 8th grade education, and usually some
>> employer would find him before he could find another employer based on
>> his reputation for hard work and exemplary ethics.
>>
>> Fan's parents went through several cycles of being "good people", then
>> "bad people", then "bad but necessary", and so on.  Her family's
>> struggle was the more difficult path.
>>
>> Now comes a candidate who's going to "put a chicken in every pot".  I
>> see a classic "tax and spend" candidate who will have a short-lived
>> political cycle if people are silly enough to give him the
>> opportunity.
>>
>> Fan's premonitions are far worse given her personal experience.
>>
>> As a pilot, I preach to my students to keep a "hip pocket alternate".
>> Our retirement has been delayed at least 5 years by this economic
>> downturn, in the US that is.
>>
>> Now, if I could just come up with a plan for my kids. Permanent
>> serfdom to the State?  Well, it worked for China and the Soviet Union
>> for decades as long as you didn't mind waiting in long lines. They
>> finally quit that foolishness.  People get the government they
>> deserve.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> I am sorry but what I hear is Lenin, Hitler and Jim Baker (evangelist)...
>>>
>>> I hear somebody who is glib and fluid with words.  But I ask what do the
>>> words mean?
>>>
>>> The words I hear are straight out of writers of Marxism , such words may
>>> inspire, but not me.  I believe in freedom and democracy, not the false god
>>> of Marxist theology.  Why do I use the words false god of Marxist theology?
>>>
>>> The revolutionary heart of Marxism is a simple conviction: It is necessary
>>> to change the world.  This conviction is the "vision of man's mind
>>> displacing God as the creative intelligence of the world. It is the vision
>>> of man's liberated mind, by the sole force of its rational intelligence,
>>> redirecting man's destiny and reorganizing man's life and the world. It is
>>> the vision of man, once more the central figure of the Creation, not because
>>> God made man in His image, but because man's mind makes him the most
>>> intelligent of the animals." Whittaker Chambers
>>>
>>> Why do I say this relates to Barak Obama?  It is very important to evaluate
>>> not how Obama appears but what he factually stands for.  Obama's political
>>> ideology is found in his words and his mentors.
>>>
>>> Obama states that he is a 'Progressive' and stands for change.  A current
>>> analysis of the word  Progressive shows that it's current meaning to be
>>> analogous to Marxism.  The same system of political economy that gave us
>>> Lenin, Hitler, Castro, etc.  It means government control of the political
>>> economy.
>>>
>>> And the definition that I gave of Marxism:  Socialism is a term developed
>>> from Marx, Engels and others writings on 'political economy'.  A
>>> contemporary definition is, "The form of government was one where there was
>>> no separation between civil society and the state and which directly
>>> corresponded to the 'essence of socialized man.'  And the definition
>>> continues, "Work is shared equally throughout the nation according to
>>> ability, and everyone has equal rights, standard of living and class."
>>>
>>> The equalizing of 'standard of living and class' thru means of taxation and
>>> government programs is where the use of the term 'socialist policies' is
>>> being derived from in the current political debate.
>>>
>>> The above definitions are on the street being used to interchangeably to
>>> describe Socialist, Progressives, M'ist, C'ist and other fallows.  Current
>>> journalist, writers and commentators have comingled the terms.  That is the
>>> way it is on the street in 2008.
>>>
>>> The intent of the taxation and distribution today is to 'equally share the
>>> standard of living", without regard to contribution, risk, achievement, etc.
>>>
>>> Again, I submit that Obama is using 'street preaching' like an evangelist,
>>> except he is preaching Marxism.
>>>
>>> Ed K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know Brad,Herb and Ed, I have been trying to think of a way to express
>>>> my biggest problem with Palin. I think I may have the germ of an idea, not
>>>> fully formed yet but I'd be interested in your reaction. Ross Perot, crazy
>>>> little bugger that he was, did have a point when he said that one of the
>>>> most important jobs of the President was to make use of the "bully pulpit"
>>>> that the office provides.  The Pres has no legislative or judicial power
>>>> but it is the power of inspiration and advocacy, and the power to make
>>>> Americans feel good about themselves, and/or become motivated to meet
>>>> great challenges as a nation that makes the office so important.
>>>>
>>>> Think about listening to FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Sr.  These men
>>>> moved us to handle the challenges of their times. Clinton was such a man
>>>> as well.  When we listen to Barak Obama speak, I believe most Americans
>>>> hear similar inspiration.  Even you men, if you could forget what you
>>>> think you know about his past, if you just LISTEN to the words, he makes
>>>> everybody who listens to him want to be and do great.
>>>>
>>>> When people listen to Ms Palin, half are inspired to hate the other half.
>>>> In the words of "W", she's a divider not a uniter.  Her sarcastic and mean
>>>> spirited references to real Americans vs. THE OTHERS, is a call to the
>>>> worst in each of us, a call to blame  THEM for our troubles.
>>>>
>>>> Do you see? Do you hear it? Am I on to something here?
>>>>
>>>> Ben C.
>>>>
>>>> TN Rhodey-2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Herb, I do see the difference. I also understand the scholarship is not
>>>>> for
>>>>> raising your kids. Do you see that? You ignored that part of my post. I
>>>>> wonder why?
>>>>>
>>>>> My definition would includes the most prestigious scholarship i am aware
>>>>> of.
>>>>> Can you name a more prestigious academic scholarship? You respond to my
>>>>> post
>>>>> but never answered the question.  I do agree that more people seek a HS
>>>>> diploma than a Rhodes Scholarship. You will argue the silliest things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway iyou agreed with main point....a Rhodes Scholarship does not make
>>>>> one
>>>>> a good person or president.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wally
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben's Definition - "single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"
>>>>>> Wally's Definition - "a highly sought after ACADEMIC scholarship"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do hope you see the difference between the two. I'd be willing to make
>>>>>> a bet with anyone on here, ANYONE. I'd be willing to bet that there are
>>>>>> more people seeking a high school diploma in any one year than there are
>>>>>> seeking Rhodes scholarships. I think a HS diploma would be a much more
>>>>>> sought after honor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the problem with hyperbole. People get so caught up in saying
>>>>>> things that they quickly lose track of what they are saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, the real point to this is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does having gaining a Rhodes scholarship make on more qualified for the
>>>>>> white house? I don't think so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed, Perhaps you are letting your opinion of Clinton tarnish the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of a Rhodes Scholarship. As Ben mentioned it is a highly sought
>>>>>>> after ACADEMIC scholarship. This is not his definition this is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> reality.
>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there a more prestigious post graduate scholarship offered?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Rhodes scholarship is not awarded for raising a family or imparting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> your
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> approved values.  It is nothing like Mormons sent abroad.....they were
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> selected for their mission based on academics. Many who achieve the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> academic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> honors you mention are later selected for a Rhodes Scholarship.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most seem to recognize that a Rhodes Scholarship is awarded to the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> cream
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the academic crop. Beings a Rhodes Scholar does not guarantee high
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> morals,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> post graduate achievement, or groom one for future presidency. I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>> how
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> many Rhodes scholars own Rhodes sailboats?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar…"  "Surely you realize this post
>>>>>>>> graduate
>>>>>>>> grant is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>>>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can
>>>>>>>> receive. Please tell me you accept that fact."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben in American it is acceptable to have people with other opinions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> understood that one opinion is not necessarily the absolute epiphany.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So as to your statement, I will accept what you said about 'a Rhodes
>>>>>>>> Scholar' as fact to you.  And that is your opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My opinion is not the same and my values are not the same.  And I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> know
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> Americans who share my opinion, and may know some who share yours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the part that part that says, "single most prestigious,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> competitive,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sought after, challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"  I suggest
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> may be true, but only to those who seek that specific type
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> recognition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your definition does not include 'Scientific Achievements' of an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> academic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nature.  Your definition does not include 'Achievements' of economic,
>>>>>>>> religious, social (to include community) and a plethora of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> achievements
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> may have other or different academic measurements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I give the Rhodes Scholar the same or equal weight as cum laude or
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> summa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cum laude, or other academic honors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In summary, while it is nice to have some who go to another country
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>>> for a year or two, I do not limit my recognition of important
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> that group.  I am not a Mormon, but their practice of sending young
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> men
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> missions to different parts of this country or other countries
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> accomplishes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a similar education.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A researcher who finds important medical facts about diseases to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> equal or greater achievement. than a Rhodes Scholar.  And, note that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can be accomplished in an Academic laboratory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> those children important societal values to me is a higher
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> your Rhodes Scholar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, we do not agree.  Others are free to agree with you.  What we are
>>>>>>>> talking about is the difference between 'Conservative' values and
>>>>>>>> liberalism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>> addendum, ""A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> danger,
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of higher obligation."    Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tootle;
>>>>>>>>> I recently called Bill Clinton a genius in defending my position
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is not her accent that makes Sarah Palin a moron. Clinton has a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pronounced
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> accent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As you must have known , but perhaps have blocked from your memory,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.  Surely you realize this post graduate
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> challenging,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can receive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tell me you accept that fact.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Clinton speaks in complete, gramatically correct, coherant
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> English
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sentences.  His paragraphs have a beginning, a middle and an end
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hang
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> together as eloquent expressions of a complete thought.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Clinton can talk for hours on esoteric subjects of foreign and
>>>>>>>>> domestic policy, without notes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He is spontaneously witty, charming, quick, and isn't afraid to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "intellectual". He is utterly unafraid to be challenged on any
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> anyone, and is a persuasive advocate for his point of view.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarah Palin spouts transparently canned lines, which almost always
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the words, "maverick, soccar Mom, pit bull, Joe six-pack, hockey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> mom,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> americans, and/or you betcha" over and over.  She has one talent,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sarcasm,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and it is no wonder to me why she is so popular with some of the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> folks
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this forum.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> She wants to be VP to a man who has had multiple bouts with serious
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cancer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and is of advanced age.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not alone in my assessment of this person.  David Brooks and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> right of center writers like Peggy Noonan and others feel exactly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> way.  I'm in good company in my assessment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who thinks she is not a moron?  As far as I can tell, only afew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> hardy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> souls on this forum.  Well, good luck with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS- for purposes of this discussion I define moron as a person of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> obvious
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> intellectual incapacity who is also mean, nasty, sarcastic and adds
>>>>>>>>> nothing to the public discourse. It is a function of both attitude
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> AND
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> aptitude.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PPS-Yes Tootle I know that makes me a moron in your eyes. I can live
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is he getting the thirst for 'politics'?  Maybe the governorship of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> say,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia ... sounds like he as an audience
>>>>>>>>>> waiting...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/file/p20149918/WigeeBoard.jpg WigeeBoard.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20163445.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20168818.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
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