[Rhodes22-list] Political reply to Ben C - you are kidding?
Herb Parsons
hparsons at parsonsys.com
Sat Oct 25 17:47:24 EDT 2008
The reason I didn't answer all of your points was that I was using your
information to contrast with Ben's. In addition, you and I agreed (as
you said), that being a Rhodes scholar has nothing to do with being a
good president.
However, since you seem bothered that I didn't address your other
issues, I'll be happy to go down the list.
My "silly" point was to illustrate the silly hyperbole one sees here
(and other places). I suppose I could take a purely academic viewpoint,
and talk about the fact that he was presenting a deductive argument that
while totally valid as an argument, is incorrect in its conclusion
because the premises on which the argument is based are incorrect
premises; however, what would be the point?? Ben is of the Thinker and
Debater class, I and of the mere Just Believe class. Thus, I will always
be relegated (in Ben's tiny little mind) to being wrong, and no matter
how many incorrect premises they use as a foundation (and there ARE many.)
Instead, I pick off the easy targets, the silly ones. Those mistakes in
claims by Ben the Thinker and Debater that are so obviously wrong that
to point them out would be ... well yeah ... silly.
But then, this is the silly season.
OK, you're questions.
I can't think of a more prestigious academic honor than the the Rhodes
scholarship. There may be some, but I've not spent much time thinking
about it, and none come to mind to me. I don't spend much time thinking
about because of the same conclusion we've both reached, I don't think
it's valid to the discussion of who should be a POTUS or VPOUTS. As a
matter of fact, I would say that President Clinton proved just how
useless that honor is in the execution of the duties of the office.
You and I agree that the scholarship is not for raising kids, I don't
think that was Ed's point. When Ed said
"A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
into those children important societal values to me is a higher
achievement than your Rhodes Scholar."
I think his point was that things like raising four children could be
more important for a leader than being a Rhodes Scholar.
I agree with him.
Did I hit all the points completely enough, or did I miss something?
TN Rhodey wrote:
> Herb, I do see the difference. I also understand the scholarship is not for
> raising your kids. Do you see that? You ignored that part of my post. I
> wonder why?
>
> My definition would includes the most prestigious scholarship i am aware of.
> Can you name a more prestigious academic scholarship? You respond to my post
> but never answered the question. I do agree that more people seek a HS
> diploma than a Rhodes Scholarship. You will argue the silliest things.
>
> Anyway iyou agreed with main point....a Rhodes Scholarship does not make one
> a good person or president.
>
> Wally
>
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:
>
>
>> Ben's Definition - "single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"
>> Wally's Definition - "a highly sought after ACADEMIC scholarship"
>>
>> I do hope you see the difference between the two. I'd be willing to make
>> a bet with anyone on here, ANYONE. I'd be willing to bet that there are
>> more people seeking a high school diploma in any one year than there are
>> seeking Rhodes scholarships. I think a HS diploma would be a much more
>> sought after honor.
>>
>> That's the problem with hyperbole. People get so caught up in saying
>> things that they quickly lose track of what they are saying.
>>
>> However, the real point to this is:
>>
>> Does having gaining a Rhodes scholarship make on more qualified for the
>> white house? I don't think so.
>>
>>
>>
>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>
>>> Ed, Perhaps you are letting your opinion of Clinton tarnish the
>>>
>> achievement
>>
>>> of a Rhodes Scholarship. As Ben mentioned it is a highly sought
>>> after ACADEMIC scholarship. This is not his definition this is reality.
>>>
>> Is
>>
>>> there a more prestigious post graduate scholarship offered?
>>>
>>> A Rhodes scholarship is not awarded for raising a family or imparting
>>>
>> your
>>
>>> approved values. It is nothing like Mormons sent abroad.....they were
>>>
>> not
>>
>>> selected for their mission based on academics. Many who achieve the
>>>
>> academic
>>
>>> honors you mention are later selected for a Rhodes Scholarship.
>>>
>>> Most seem to recognize that a Rhodes Scholarship is awarded to the cream
>>>
>> of
>>
>>> the academic crop. Beings a Rhodes Scholar does not guarantee high
>>>
>> morals,
>>
>>> post graduate achievement, or groom one for future presidency. I wonder
>>>
>> how
>>
>>> many Rhodes scholars own Rhodes sailboats?
>>>
>>> Wally
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar…" "Surely you realize this post
>>>> graduate
>>>> grant is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can
>>>> receive. Please tell me you accept that fact."
>>>>
>>>> Ben in American it is acceptable to have people with other opinions. It
>>>>
>> is
>>
>>>> understood that one opinion is not necessarily the absolute epiphany.
>>>>
>>>> So as to your statement, I will accept what you said about 'a Rhodes
>>>> Scholar' as fact to you. And that is your opinion.
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is not the same and my values are not the same. And I know
>>>> other
>>>> Americans who share my opinion, and may know some who share yours.
>>>>
>>>> As for the part that part that says, "single most prestigious,
>>>>
>> competitive,
>>
>>>> sought after, challenging, and rewarding academic honor…" I suggest
>>>>
>> that
>>
>>>> may be true, but only to those who seek that specific type recognition.
>>>>
>>>> Your definition does not include 'Scientific Achievements' of an
>>>>
>> academic
>>
>>>> nature. Your definition does not include 'Achievements' of economic,
>>>> religious, social (to include community) and a plethora of achievements
>>>> that
>>>> may have other or different academic measurements.
>>>>
>>>> So I give the Rhodes Scholar the same or equal weight as cum laude or
>>>>
>> summa
>>
>>>> cum laude, or other academic honors.
>>>>
>>>> In summary, while it is nice to have some who go to another country to
>>>> study
>>>> for a year or two, I do not limit my recognition of important
>>>>
>> achievement
>>
>>>> to
>>>> that group. I am not a Mormon, but their practice of sending young men
>>>>
>> on
>>
>>>> missions to different parts of this country or other countries
>>>>
>> accomplishes
>>
>>>> a similar education.
>>>>
>>>> A researcher who finds important medical facts about diseases to me is
>>>>
>> an
>>
>>>> equal or greater achievement. than a Rhodes Scholar. And, note that
>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>> can be accomplished in an Academic laboratory.
>>>>
>>>> A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
>>>>
>> into
>>
>>>> those children important societal values to me is a higher achievement
>>>>
>> than
>>
>>>> your Rhodes Scholar.
>>>>
>>>> So, we do not agree. Others are free to agree with you. What we are
>>>> talking about is the difference between 'Conservative' values and
>>>> liberalism.
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> addendum, ""A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of
>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of
>>>> necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger,
>>>>
>> are
>>
>>>> of higher obligation." Thomas Jefferson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tootle;
>>>>> I recently called Bill Clinton a genius in defending my position that
>>>>>
>> it
>>
>>>>> is not her accent that makes Sarah Palin a moron. Clinton has a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> pronounced
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> accent.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you must have known , but perhaps have blocked from your memory,
>>>>>
>> Bill
>>
>>>>> Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar. Surely you realize this post graduate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> grant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after, challenging,
>>>>> and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can receive.
>>>>>
>> Please
>>
>>>>> tell me you accept that fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Clinton speaks in complete, gramatically correct, coherant English
>>>>> sentences. His paragraphs have a beginning, a middle and an end that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> hang
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> together as eloquent expressions of a complete thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Clinton can talk for hours on esoteric subjects of foreign and
>>>>> domestic policy, without notes.
>>>>>
>>>>> He is spontaneously witty, charming, quick, and isn't afraid to appear
>>>>> "intellectual". He is utterly unafraid to be challenged on any subject
>>>>>
>> by
>>
>>>>> anyone, and is a persuasive advocate for his point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah Palin spouts transparently canned lines, which almost always
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> include
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the words, "maverick, soccar Mom, pit bull, Joe six-pack, hockey mom,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> real
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> americans, and/or you betcha" over and over. She has one talent,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> sarcasm,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and it is no wonder to me why she is so popular with some of the folks
>>>>>
>> on
>>
>>>>> this forum.
>>>>>
>>>>> She wants to be VP to a man who has had multiple bouts with serious
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> cancer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and is of advanced age.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not alone in my assessment of this person. David Brooks and other
>>>>> right of center writers like Peggy Noonan and others feel exactly the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> same
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> way. I'm in good company in my assessment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who thinks she is not a moron? As far as I can tell, only afew hardy
>>>>> souls on this forum. Well, good luck with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS- for purposes of this discussion I define moron as a person of
>>>>>
>> obvious
>>
>>>>> intellectual incapacity who is also mean, nasty, sarcastic and adds
>>>>> nothing to the public discourse. It is a function of both attitude AND
>>>>> aptitude.
>>>>>
>>>>> PPS-Yes Tootle I know that makes me a moron in your eyes. I can live
>>>>>
>> with
>>
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is he getting the thirst for 'politics'? Maybe the governorship of
>>>>>>
>> say,
>>
>>>>>> Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia ... sounds like he as an audience
>>>>>> waiting...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20149918/WigeeBoard.jpg WigeeBoard.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20163445.html
>>
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
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