[Rhodes22-list] Political reply to Ben C - you are kidding?

Tue Oct 28 08:32:59 EDT 2008

Herb, Got it now. Thanks- Wally

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:

> The reason I didn't answer all of your points was that I was using your
> information to contrast with Ben's. In addition, you and I agreed (as
> you said), that being a Rhodes scholar has nothing to do with being a
> good president.
>
> However, since you seem bothered that I didn't address your other
> issues, I'll be happy to go down the list.
>
> My "silly" point was to illustrate the silly hyperbole one sees here
> (and other places). I suppose I could take a purely academic viewpoint,
> and talk about the fact that he was presenting a deductive argument that
> while totally valid as an argument, is incorrect in its conclusion
> because the premises on which the argument is based are incorrect
> premises; however, what would be the point?? Ben is of the Thinker and
> Debater class, I and of the mere Just Believe class. Thus, I will always
> be relegated (in Ben's tiny little mind) to being wrong, and no matter
> how many incorrect premises they use as a foundation (and there ARE many.)
>
> Instead, I pick off the easy targets, the silly ones. Those mistakes in
> claims by Ben the Thinker and Debater that are so obviously wrong that
> to point them out would be ... well yeah ... silly.
>
> But then, this is the silly season.
>
> OK, you're questions.
>
> I can't think of a more prestigious academic honor than the the Rhodes
> scholarship. There may be some, but I've not spent much time thinking
> about it, and none come to mind to me. I don't spend much time thinking
> about because of the same conclusion we've both reached, I don't think
> it's valid to the discussion of who should be a POTUS or VPOUTS. As a
> matter of fact, I would say that President Clinton proved just how
> useless that honor is in the execution of the duties of the office.
>
> You and I agree that the scholarship is not for raising kids, I don't
> think that was Ed's point. When Ed said
>
> "A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
> into those children important societal values to me is a higher
> achievement than your Rhodes Scholar."
>
> I think his point was that things like raising four children could be
> more important for a leader than being a Rhodes Scholar.
>
> I agree with him.
>
> Did I hit all the points completely enough, or did I miss something?
>
>
>
>
> TN Rhodey wrote:
> > Herb, I do see the difference. I also understand the scholarship is not
> for
> > raising your kids. Do you see that? You ignored that part of my post. I
> > wonder why?
> >
> > My definition would includes the most prestigious scholarship i am aware
> of.
> > Can you name a more prestigious academic scholarship? You respond to my
> post
> > but never answered the question.  I do agree that more people seek a HS
> > diploma than a Rhodes Scholarship. You will argue the silliest things.
> >
> > Anyway iyou agreed with main point....a Rhodes Scholarship does not make
> one
> > a good person or president.
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Ben's Definition - "single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
> >> challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"
> >> Wally's Definition - "a highly sought after ACADEMIC scholarship"
> >>
> >> I do hope you see the difference between the two. I'd be willing to make
> >> a bet with anyone on here, ANYONE. I'd be willing to bet that there are
> >> more people seeking a high school diploma in any one year than there are
> >> seeking Rhodes scholarships. I think a HS diploma would be a much more
> >> sought after honor.
> >>
> >> That's the problem with hyperbole. People get so caught up in saying
> >> things that they quickly lose track of what they are saying.
> >>
> >> However, the real point to this is:
> >>
> >> Does having gaining a Rhodes scholarship make on more qualified for the
> >> white house? I don't think so.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> TN Rhodey wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ed, Perhaps you are letting your opinion of Clinton tarnish the
> >>>
> >> achievement
> >>
> >>> of a Rhodes Scholarship. As Ben mentioned it is a highly sought
> >>> after ACADEMIC scholarship. This is not his definition this is reality.
> >>>
> >> Is
> >>
> >>> there a more prestigious post graduate scholarship offered?
> >>>
> >>> A Rhodes scholarship is not awarded for raising a family or imparting
> >>>
> >> your
> >>
> >>> approved values.  It is nothing like Mormons sent abroad.....they were
> >>>
> >> not
> >>
> >>> selected for their mission based on academics. Many who achieve the
> >>>
> >> academic
> >>
> >>> honors you mention are later selected for a Rhodes Scholarship.
> >>>
> >>> Most seem to recognize that a Rhodes Scholarship is awarded to the
> cream
> >>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>> the academic crop. Beings a Rhodes Scholar does not guarantee high
> >>>
> >> morals,
> >>
> >>> post graduate achievement, or groom one for future presidency. I wonder
> >>>
> >> how
> >>
> >>> many Rhodes scholars own Rhodes sailboats?
> >>>
> >>> Wally
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> "Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar…"  "Surely you realize this post
> >>>> graduate
> >>>> grant is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
> >>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can
> >>>> receive. Please tell me you accept that fact."
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben in American it is acceptable to have people with other opinions.
>  It
> >>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>> understood that one opinion is not necessarily the absolute epiphany.
> >>>>
> >>>> So as to your statement, I will accept what you said about 'a Rhodes
> >>>> Scholar' as fact to you.  And that is your opinion.
> >>>>
> >>>> My opinion is not the same and my values are not the same.  And I know
> >>>> other
> >>>> Americans who share my opinion, and may know some who share yours.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the part that part that says, "single most prestigious,
> >>>>
> >> competitive,
> >>
> >>>> sought after, challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"  I suggest
> >>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>> may be true, but only to those who seek that specific type
> recognition.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your definition does not include 'Scientific Achievements' of an
> >>>>
> >> academic
> >>
> >>>> nature.  Your definition does not include 'Achievements' of economic,
> >>>> religious, social (to include community) and a plethora of
> achievements
> >>>> that
> >>>> may have other or different academic measurements.
> >>>>
> >>>> So I give the Rhodes Scholar the same or equal weight as cum laude or
> >>>>
> >> summa
> >>
> >>>> cum laude, or other academic honors.
> >>>>
> >>>> In summary, while it is nice to have some who go to another country to
> >>>> study
> >>>> for a year or two, I do not limit my recognition of important
> >>>>
> >> achievement
> >>
> >>>> to
> >>>> that group.  I am not a Mormon, but their practice of sending young
> men
> >>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>> missions to different parts of this country or other countries
> >>>>
> >> accomplishes
> >>
> >>>> a similar education.
> >>>>
> >>>> A researcher who finds important medical facts about diseases to me is
> >>>>
> >> an
> >>
> >>>> equal or greater achievement. than a Rhodes Scholar.  And, note that
> >>>>
> >> this
> >>
> >>>> can be accomplished in an Academic laboratory.
> >>>>
> >>>> A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and imparts
> >>>>
> >> into
> >>
> >>>> those children important societal values to me is a higher achievement
> >>>>
> >> than
> >>
> >>>> your Rhodes Scholar.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, we do not agree.  Others are free to agree with you.  What we are
> >>>> talking about is the difference between 'Conservative' values and
> >>>> liberalism.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed K
> >>>> addendum, ""A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one
> of
> >>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>> high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of
> >>>> necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger,
> >>>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>>> of higher obligation."    Thomas Jefferson
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Tootle;
> >>>>> I recently called Bill Clinton a genius in defending my position that
> >>>>>
> >> it
> >>
> >>>>> is not her accent that makes Sarah Palin a moron. Clinton has a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> pronounced
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> accent.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As you must have known , but perhaps have blocked from your memory,
> >>>>>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>>>> Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.  Surely you realize this post graduate
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> grant
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
> challenging,
> >>>>> and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can receive.
> >>>>>
> >> Please
> >>
> >>>>> tell me you accept that fact.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Clinton speaks in complete, gramatically correct, coherant
> English
> >>>>> sentences.  His paragraphs have a beginning, a middle and an end that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> hang
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> together as eloquent expressions of a complete thought.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Clinton can talk for hours on esoteric subjects of foreign and
> >>>>> domestic policy, without notes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He is spontaneously witty, charming, quick, and isn't afraid to
> appear
> >>>>> "intellectual". He is utterly unafraid to be challenged on any
> subject
> >>>>>
> >> by
> >>
> >>>>> anyone, and is a persuasive advocate for his point of view.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sarah Palin spouts transparently canned lines, which almost always
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> include
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> the words, "maverick, soccar Mom, pit bull, Joe six-pack, hockey mom,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> real
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> americans, and/or you betcha" over and over.  She has one talent,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> sarcasm,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> and it is no wonder to me why she is so popular with some of the
> folks
> >>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>> this forum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> She wants to be VP to a man who has had multiple bouts with serious
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> cancer
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> and is of advanced age.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am not alone in my assessment of this person.  David Brooks and
> other
> >>>>> right of center writers like Peggy Noonan and others feel exactly the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> same
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> way.  I'm in good company in my assessment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Who thinks she is not a moron?  As far as I can tell, only afew hardy
> >>>>> souls on this forum.  Well, good luck with that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ben C.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PS- for purposes of this discussion I define moron as a person of
> >>>>>
> >> obvious
> >>
> >>>>> intellectual incapacity who is also mean, nasty, sarcastic and adds
> >>>>> nothing to the public discourse. It is a function of both attitude
> AND
> >>>>> aptitude.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PPS-Yes Tootle I know that makes me a moron in your eyes. I can live
> >>>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>>> that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tootle wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Is he getting the thirst for 'politics'?  Maybe the governorship of
> >>>>>>
> >> say,
> >>
> >>>>>> Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia ... sounds like he as an audience
> >>>>>> waiting...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ed K
> >>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/file/p20149918/WigeeBoard.jpg WigeeBoard.jpg
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/Bullshit-and-the-Art-of-Crap-Detection---Political-tp20148504p20163445.html
> >>
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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