[Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
elle
watermusic38 at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 25 23:29:12 EDT 2008
From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 2:08 PM
> It's great to see that the "becoming a guy" stuff is starting to kick in.
>
OMG! Too soon! I still have polish on my toenails!
elle
We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our sails.
1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
--- On Sat, 10/25/08, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber Joe: Been There, Done That
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 2:08 PM
> It's great to see that the "becoming a guy"
> stuff is starting to kick in.
>
>
> elle wrote:
> > Herb,
> >
> > I know this weill be hard to believe, and I hope you
> are sitting down, but I agree with you.
> >
> > I come from a long line of immigrants, whose mantra
> (if they knew that word back then) was;
> > Use it up,
> > Wear it out,
> > Make Do,
> > or do without.
> > There was no welfare. You're poor? So's
> everyone else. Grow a garden & get your gun &
> you'll eat.
> >
> > The Greatest Generation,(and they were) raised
> (correctly 'reared') a bunch of indulged Baby
> Boomers, who raised a bunch of slack-jawed, indolent,
> self-indulgent know nothings who think that flash & dash
> can substitute for substance, something they wouldn't
> recognize if it appeared on their iPhones. Hence the current
> state of political affairs.
> >
> > We have taken 'incentive' out of the
> vocabulary of America and replaced it with 'spread the
> wealth'...just more welfare by another name.
> >
> > And it's only going to get worse.
> >
> > Dang. I hate politics.No more. We'll be screwed
> soon enuf.
> >
> > elle
> >
> > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> can adjust our sails.
> >
> > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> (Lady in Red)
> >
> > --- On Sat, 10/25/08, Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey Plumber
> Joe: Been There, Done That
> > To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 1:26 PM
> >
> > Elle (and others),
> >
> > I know this is going to sound heartless, but I
> don't care. This is much
> > the reason we are in the mess we're in, and
> sinking deeper every year.
> >
> > Yes, it's sad that some parents (WAY too many
> "parents") put the
> > TV, car
> > & rims, and whatever self-indulgent crappola in
> front of their kids.
> >
> > The problem is that when we try to make it
> "better" through programs
> > like the one mentioned, we not only enable the
> parents, we extend the
> > problem.
> >
> > Those kids will look back and say "My momma got
> by, my step-daddies all
> > had cool stuff, and we managed", and the process
> continues.
> >
> > I say don't enable them. There are abuse laws,
> including neglect, on the
> > books. Enforce them. Your kids aren't eating
> right? Fine, we'll drop
> > you
> > food stamps, you obviously aren't using them
> correctly. Your kids
> > aren't
> > in school like they're supposed to be, fine,
> we'll ticket you, and
> > arrest you if necessary. Sorry you can't control
> your children, I
> > suggest you begin learning how. Start by turning off
> the TV and spend
> > that time with them.
> >
> > The schools, no matter how dedicated the individuals
> are that are in
> > them, will never successfully be surrogate parents.
> They should get back
> > to doing what they CAN do successfully.
> >
> >
> > elle wrote:
> >
> >> And if they're hungry, they can't learn.
> >>
> >> Too often kids are last in line after the TV, car
> w/rims, and whatever
> >>
> > self-indulgent crappola the 'parent' puts
> ahead of 'em.
> >
> >> And we will be 'sharing the wealth 'with
> these poor folk after
> >>
> > Nov. 4.
> >
> >> elle
> >>
> >> We can't change the angle of the wind....but
> we can adjust our sails.
> >>
> >> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 10/23/08, Steven Alm
> <stevenalm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL Hey
> Plumber Joe: Been There,
> >>>
> > Done That
> >
> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>
> > <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >
> >>> Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 3:40 PM
> >>> elle,
> >>>
> >>> It always bugged me that school districts are
> required to
> >>> pay for the free
> >>> lunches (and breakfasts) for the
> "po." Why
> >>> should food be part of the
> >>> school's budget? If you don't have
> the money for
> >>> your kids' food then you
> >>> should be paying with your food stamps or WIC
> or whatever.
> >>> Except I know
> >>> why. If the schools didn't buy the food,
> the kids
> >>> would go hungry. Sad
> >>> scenario.
> >>>
> >>> Slim
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:29 PM, elle
> >>> <watermusic38 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Herb,
> >>>>
> >>>> this brings up an interesting discussion I
> had
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> recently with a successful
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> small business owner in this area who is
> very active
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> with volunteerism and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> youth. She had taught (not in a
> traditional edu
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> setting but through social
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> services) various types of sex ed &
> living
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> skills....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I had taught school for @ 35 years...we
> were
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> discussing criteria for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> welfare, social services, free lunch, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> It was decided that using family income
> was a poor
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> measure of qualification
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> for bennies...what should set the bar are
> the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> following:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> "1. How many cell phone plans are in
> use in your
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> household? How many
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> minutes for each plan?
> >>>> 2. Square footage of your abode.
> >>>> 3. How many large screen TV's are in
> your abode?
> >>>> 4.How many licensed drivers in your home?
> >>>> 5. How many vehicles are on your property?
> Give make,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> model, year, and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> monthly payment for each.
> >>>> 6. How many cases of beer or 5ths of booze
> are
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> consumed weekly by your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> household?
> >>>> 7. How many children are in the home? How
> many fathers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> are represented by
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> these children? You lose benefits for the
> 2nd thru
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> subsequent children of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> different fathers.
> >>>>
> >>>> " Your monthly benefit will be
> adjusted by
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> SUBTRACTING the cost of the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> above items from your welfare check. If
> you didn't
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> have all this crap you
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> can't afford, you could pay your own
> bills.
> >>>>
> >>>> When do I get elected?
> >>>>
> >>>> elle
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW..this was meant to be equally
> offensive to anyone
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> fulfilling the above
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> criteria. No race, color, creed
> requirement.
> >>>>
> >>>> We can't change the angle of the
> wind....but we
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> can adjust our sails.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06
> "WaterMusic"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> (Lady in Red)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Herb Parsons
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> From: Herb Parsons
> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] POLITICAL
> Hey
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> Plumber Joe: Been There, Done
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> That
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email
> List"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 8:22
> PM
> >>>>> Brad!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I want to see if I'm completely
> clear on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> You're in the 99th percentile as
> far as
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> monetary wealth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> goes.
> >>>>> You and foreign born wife accomplished
> this in a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> single
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> generation.
> >>>>> And you're unwilling to share your
> quickly
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> found wealth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> with those poor
> >>>>> folks that have struggled for 3 or 4
> generations
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> to break
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> free from
> >>>>> their poverty, and now only ask that
> they have a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> few
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> necessities in life
> >>>>> like calbe for their color TV's
> and cell
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> phones.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> I'm sure there's some racist
> motivation
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> in your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> refusal to share the wealth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fan and I are BARELY in the 99%
> percentile
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> we're not rich. She
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> arrived here in 1989 shortly after
> Tienanmen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> Square
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> with two suit
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> cases and $50 US money and I met
> her ten
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> years later
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> after her second
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> graduate degree and third job. We
> struck a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> bond
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> because after decades
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> of living a "macroni and
> cheese
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> lifestyle",
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> maybe a "rice and noodles"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> lifestyle would be more
> appropriate - we
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> found
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> ourselves on the path
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> to success. Now we're being
> told that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> we're
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> guilty of something.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> It's always good to go home to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> Brownstown,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Illinois. The town has
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> grown, it was 650 people when I
> grew-up
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> there, now
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> it's up to 700
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> people.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'll get back to you tomorrow
> on how
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> things have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> changed. I'm glad to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> be back home. Mom and Dad are
> always good
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> inspiration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> We'll survive!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM,
> Herb
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> Parsons
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> What Obama and his ilk
> don't
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> understand is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> that there are people that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> recognize right and wrong no
> matter who
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> it's
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> directed at.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm in the 95% that would
> get a tax
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> cut under
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Obama's plan.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't like it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't like it because it
> takes
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> away from the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> other 5% to give to me. I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> hope someday to be in that 5%,
> and I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> wouldn't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> want that done to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's all part of that old
> fashioned
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> notion of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> do unto others as you
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> would have them do unto you. I
> don't
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> want
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> anyone taking money from me
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> and saying "I'm going
> to give
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> this to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> someone else because they have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> less than you."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Because I don't want it
> done to me,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> don't want it done to anyone else.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> But, I realize I'm a bit
> extreme.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andrew,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Pay attention here, Joe
> the Plumber
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> is not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> doing mid-night repairs on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> peoples shitters. He is
> working
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> under someone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> else's license. If you
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> know plumbing and plumbers
> then you
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> know that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> it takes a seven year
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> apprenticeship. How else
> does one
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> become a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> plumber? So did Joe ask
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> an invalid question
> because he
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> didn't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> identify himself as "Joe the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Apprentice Plumber"?
> The latest
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> attack on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Joe was from The One
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> himself, "how many
> plumbers do
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> you know
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> that make more than $250,000 a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> year?". You should
> know,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> lot's of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> plumbing contractors make that much
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and more.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The answer, "we need
> to share
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> wealth" is what is disturbing.
> You
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> can't mathematically
> give 95% of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> people "tax cuts" when the
> bottom
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 38% don't pay taxes.
> Even if
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> you could, I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> wouldn't be in the 95% and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> as Tip O'neil used to
> say,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> "all
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> politics is local". If almost 40%
> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> voters have the chance to
> vote
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> themselves a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> raise, they will. You now
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> only need a small
> percentage of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> party faithful
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> to vote your way and,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> PRESTO!, we've arrived
> at the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> tipping
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> point our founding fathers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> worried about.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The truth of the matter
> is, we
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> don't know
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> what Obama will do, his
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> positions have shifted
> weekly. As a
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> community
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> organizer he helped
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> shake down companies out
> of money.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> As a grant
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> administrator he
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> distributed monies to
> organizations
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> based on
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> race and radical ideas,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> not sound education
> principles. As
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> a State
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Senator he either voted
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "present" if it
> was a
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> controversial
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> issue or "Yea" if it
> involved
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> funneling money to Chicago
> cronies
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> public/private enterprises,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> most of which failed. As
> a US
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> Senator he
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> followed the party line 97%
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> of the time and wrote no
> major piece
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> legislation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There isn't a whole
> lot in his
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> record of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> late to make judgements on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> other than words.
> According to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> Obama, words
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> mean something. So, I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> guess that when he plans
> to raise
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> taxes and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> engage in restraint of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> trade he means it.
> Let's hope
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> that works
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> out better than it did for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Herbert Hoover.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Maybe this is what Dr.
> Johnson was
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> thinking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> when he coined the phrase,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "it is the triumph of
> hope over
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> experience".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at
> 4:37 PM,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Collins
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What was your point
> exactly,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> Brad? You
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> made mine quite nicely, thank you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You are having trouble
> focusing.
> >>>>>>>>> I am very well versed
> in
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> plumbing, and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> have seen just how badly unlicensed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> plumbers can screw
> things up.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> Some of them
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> even think shit can flow uphill,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> and I have the photos
> to prove
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> I tell all my intern
> engineers
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> the first
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> rule of construction is "shit
> flows
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> downhill", and
> have been
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> telling them
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> for 30 years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My firm can plumb
> anything you
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> like, we
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> are licensed in 4 states. We abide
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> by the law of the
> land, as do
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> you.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Get licensed Joe!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008
> at 4:56 PM,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Andrew,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> God bless your
> immature
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> heart. How
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> the hell do you get experience?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You started out
> shitting in
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> pants. Someone had to help you find
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> your way to the
> John.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Attacking Joe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> the Plumber because he doesn't
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> have a license is
> silly.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Allow me to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> let you in on a little secret
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> here. I work in
> the most
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> regulated
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> profession in the world. I get
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> tested at at
> minimum every
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> six months
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> (I'm an examiner). I get a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> physical every six
> months.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Every day
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> at work I'm subject to drug
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> testing. Every
> day I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> subject to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> a random government oversight test.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I challenge you
> to find a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> profession
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> that has a bigger microscope
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> focused on it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You are worried
> about a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> plumber?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Here's a clue kid! Shit flows
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> downhill.
> Plumbing is
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> serious
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> business. It takes 7 years of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> experience to get
> a plumbers
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> license.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> You have to be smart to get
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> one. But
> don't you cast
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> aspersions on someone who is working
> on a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> plumbing license
> or someone
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> who is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> aspiring one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Most of the
> PhD's I know
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> couldn't pour piss out of a boot
> with the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> instructions
> printed on the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> heel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Never underestimate the common
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wisdom of someone
> who knows
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> direction of shit given gravity or
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "shit from
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> shinola".
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17,
> 2008 at 3:12
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> PM,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Andrew Collins
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear pdgrand
> nospam:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> awful post
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> " ...
> when decades
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> of liberal
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> energy policy came home to roost
> "?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This post
> isn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> worthy of even
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> this lowly slug-fest we call a sailing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> forum.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And whaddabout
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> subject line?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Ed where are you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Can we have a
> new rule:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> you have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> to write it yourself not cut and paste
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> old
> uncorroborated
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> opinion that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> oozes across the web?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And if Joe is
> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> unlicensed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> plumber, he is just that. He should be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> licensed,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> take the
> tests, go to
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> trade
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> school. Do unlicensed pilots fly? Do
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> unregistered
> engineers
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> practice,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> do unlicensed beauticians give
> facials?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> No,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> they don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This
> unlicensed
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> tradesman is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> manipulating gas installations,
> connections
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> the public
> water supply,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> connectiions to public sewer systems,
> etc. This
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> work brings
> with it
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> responsibilities that every
> municipality requires
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> be
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> satisfied by
> obtaining a
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> plumbing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> license before being allowed to this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> kind
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> of work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct
> 17, 2008 at
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> 2:37 PM,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> <pdgrand at nospam.wmis.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> October
> 17, 2008
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey
> Plumber Joe:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Been There,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Done That
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> By C.
> Edmund
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> Wright<http://www.americanthinker.com/c_edmund_wright/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> God love
> you Joe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Bless your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> heart Joe. You, and people like you,
> are
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> what makes
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> country work.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> You make the country great. You get it
> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> act on it
> -- and you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> enrich
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> the lives of your family and your
> friends
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> your
> communities and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> charities as a result.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But I
> think what I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> should say
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> now is "God help you Joe."
> Look, 16
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> plus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> years ago
> I was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> where you are
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> now. And I must tell you if Obama
> wins, I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> am pulling
> the plug
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> in a few
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> months. I am out. I have had it. I am
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> preparing
> to destroy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> almost
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> 100 jobs and lower my tax bracket and
> I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> can't
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wait.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Consider:
> 16 years
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> ago I was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> statistically in poverty, but I had
> dreams
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and a
> plan. At the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> time, the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> remnants of Reaganomics still set the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> economic
> tone and a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> fired up
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Newt Gingrich was forcing conservatism
> on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton
> White House
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> every time
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Bill and Hillary tried to move left.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> There
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were
> actually
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> politicians who
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> praised business owners and business
> in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> general.
> Against
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> backdrop, I've had a pretty good
> run.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> It's been
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> extremely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> challenging and the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> move up was not a straight line, but I
> am
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> better off
> than I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> was 16 years
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> ago. And 8 years ago. And 4 years ago.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> And
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> so are a
> lot of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> folks who have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> been on this ride with me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But Joe, I
> am not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> better off
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> than I was just 2 years ago.
> That's when
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> decades of
> liberal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> energy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> policy came home to roost and four
> dollar gas
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> took
> several hundred
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> thousands
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> from my bottom line faster than I
> could
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> possibly
> react.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> That same gas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> price slammed my customers -- and my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> customer's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> customers --
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> forcing our company into a vice of
> rapidly
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> rising
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> costs and
> rapidly
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> dropping
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> revenues. Oh, and for fun, slower
> payments
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> our
> customers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> That
> started the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> ripple
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> through the sub prime mortgage
> industry, and we
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have all
> seen the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> unraveling
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> of our financial system which was more
> or
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> less
> totally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> underpinned by
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> real estate "values." Those
> assumed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> valuations
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were the
> basis for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> any number
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> of derivatives and credit swaps and so
> on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well,
> forget all
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> that Wall
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Street talk. To you and me it means
> employees
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> are more
> desperate
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> for money,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> customers are less willing to buy,
> slower
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pay and
> banks less
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> willing to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> lend. It certainly means whatever
> homes
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 401K's
> you have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> are worth
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> less too which makes your bank even
> less
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> anxious
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to lend to
> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> business. It
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> is the main street carnage of
> "unfettered
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> government"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> onto small
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> business. It is the destructive fruit
> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> environmental
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> leftists, the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Fannie-Freddie cronies in government
> and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> corrupt
> liberals in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> positions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> of power.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And sadly,
> this is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> also the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> result of George Bush giving into
> these
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> folks
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> all too
> often in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> defense of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> his "new tone." (That worked
> out well,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it?) This
> was helped
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> ironically by John McCain
> "reaching across
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> aisle"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to vote
> against tax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> cuts and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> vote for energy restrictions and so
> on. All
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of this
> was nicely
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> summed up
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> by Mitt Romney when he said that our
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> problems
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> stem from
> "too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> many
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Republicans acting too much like
> Democrats."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> Now, if
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the polls
> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> anywhere near
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> accurate, we are going to get a taste
> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> "real
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Democrats
> acting too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> much like
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Marxists" for at least a few
> years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mitt was
> right, but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> pundits said McCain was more
> acceptable to the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> moderates.
> Hmmm.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Wonder if a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> financial turn-around specialist like
> Mitt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> might sell
> to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> moderates
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> now? Just a wild thought from someone
> not
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> smart
> enough to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> beltway
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> pundit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now Joe,
> as someone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> whose been
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> there, let me tell you how this works,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> though I
> think you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> have a good
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> idea. At the end of the year, as an
> LLC,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> do file
> taxes with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> business profit on my personal returns
> like many
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> others do
> as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> And yes,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> that figure is much bigger than 250
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> thousand.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But
> that's not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> really MY
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> MONEY to keep. It's how I underpin
> my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> business.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> When
> customers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> disappear or
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> take their time paying bills, I still
> have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pay my
> employees,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> rent,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> suppliers, and countless other
> expenses. Every
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> penny that
> the tax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> man takes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> out of that profit is less money that
> I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to carry
> forward to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> stay in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> business for the next year. And if
> Obama and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reid and
> Pelosi take
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> more of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> this by "raising taxes on the
> rich"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> then of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> course my
> business
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> will
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> suffer. And so will all the employees.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is
> exactly what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> almost
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> none of those lawyers turned
> politicians
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> understand.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But of
> course, you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> will have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> to send tax money into the government,
> Joe,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because
> the man who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> is in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> charge of spending that money --
> Charlie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Rangel
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- damned
> sure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> wasn't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> paying his fair share as we know now.
> Get out
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> checkbook.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course,
> all of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> this matters
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> only if you can afford to fill your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> plumbing
> vans with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> gas at gosh
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> knows what price. It could be that the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> recession
> will lower
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> the gas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> price, but that's not terribly
> good news
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> you
> either, since
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> customers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> don't spend as much money in a
> recession. I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mean, I
> hate to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> burst your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> bubble, but small business owners are
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> surrounded
> by a sea
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> challenges outside their control and
> almost all
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> them are
> caused by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> liberalism.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Government has formed a business
> firing
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> squad and
> it's a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> doggone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> circle!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wish you
> well,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> guy. You
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> might just have the genius and
> persistence to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pull this
> off. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> really do
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> hope so. As for me, I have had enough.
> I have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> fought
> creeping
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> liberalism and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> managed more wins than losses over 17
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> years. We
> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> progressed to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> where our business, now a
> corporation,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> big enough
> so that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> Obama and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> his ilk now have their own ideas about
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> "what
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> larger
> businesses
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> can
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> afford" and what
> "corporations can
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> afford."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well
> I've got
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> news for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> him. I cannot afford what they think I
> can
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> afford,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> so I am
> breaking her
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> up and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> giving her away to some key employees.
> I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>> wish
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> them well
> too. They
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> are like
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> you, tough and smart. Perhaps if they
> stay
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> small
> enough and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> never can
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> carry forward more than 250 thou to
> the next
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> year, they
> will be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> allowed to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> keep their businesses through a
> downturn.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for me?
> I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> outta here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> -------------- next
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> part
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> --------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> An
> embedded and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>> charset-unspecified text was
> scrubbed...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Name:
> untitled-[2]
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Url:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20081017/5a0870b2/attachment.txt
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> subscribe/unsubscribe or
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> for help with using the mailing list
> go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> or for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe or
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>> for help
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> with using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> To
> subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> help with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe
> or for help
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>> with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> using the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or
> for help
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> with using
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> the mailing list go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for
> help with
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>> using the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> mailing list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help
> with using
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> the mailing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> list go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> mailing list go to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> using the mailing
> >>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> the mailing list go to
> >>
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to
> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
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