[Rhodes22-list] Political reply to Ben C - you are kidding?

Sun Oct 26 07:23:08 EDT 2008

Ben,

That convention speech was written by Matt Scully (all politicians use
speech writers).  I seriously doubt Palin has ever read any Pegler or
knew who he was.  His statement on small towns is innocent by itself.
The only reason I know of Pegler is because of some research for a
labor law class.  Scully probably didn't know who he was either, he
just liked the sound of the quote. Todd Palin is a union member and
Sarah Palin keeps an Israeli flag on her office wall, I seriously
doubt she holds many of the same views as Pegler.

There's a huge difference between using a quote from a Pegler type
unknowingly versus sitting in a pew and listening to even more
vitriolic BS from a "spiritual advisor" for twenty years.

Brad

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Benjamin Cittadino
<bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Herb,
> When Palin quoted PEGLER she already knew everything about him and his
> agenda.  She knew he was a bigot, a racist, an anti-semite, a horrible
> person.  PEGLER had fully revealed the depravity of his psyche. She chose to
> quote him depite what she knew about him.
>
> When Obama quoted Wright Obama says he knew nothing of Wright's ultimately
> depaved views. You don't believe him. I do. When he learned of the truth
> about Wright he forcefully rejected him.  There is no way Palin can deny
> knowing about Pegler. She chose to quote him directly. Why? Why him? Lots of
> people have praised small towns. She chose Pegler and no amount of you
> calling me names yet again can change that fact.  To this day Palin has not
> explained her use of Peglers words or uttered one criticism of Pegler. Why?
> I believe it's because his message of hate is her message of hate. And she
> wants us to know that. Otherwise, why not say, it was a mistake, that she
> rejects Pegler as Obama rejects Wright.
>
> Please note I have kept a civil tone with you here.  Let's be realistic
> Herb. To a neutral, or undecided person, how do your words come across?  In
> case you haven't noticed Herb I am not really writting to, or for, you. I am
> not so foolish as to think I will change your mind. I'm writing for the
> people out there who read this stuff. Apparently, there are afew who do.
> They have said in one way or another that they enjoy the debates, but don't
> like the personal attacks. Your insulting names  (pompous et al)may help you
> discharge your obvious frustration, but it doesn't win votes for your
> candidates. And it demeans us all.
>
>
> Ben C.
>
> hparsons wrote:
>>
>> I don't know Ben. Is she a fan? Obama quoted from Rev Wright, does that
>> mean he subscribes to the same view as "god damn America" Wright?
>>
>> You've taken your assumption that Pegler is her "role model". How about
>> the possibility that she simply admired the words that he wrote? Nah,
>> that wouldn't fit your agenda.
>>
>> I think Ben Afflack is a great actor, but his politics sucks.
>>
>> What a pompous person you are to designate for her to me what her "plan"
>> is based on her quotation from a book.
>>
>> You spouted off on here about a "damnable lie" when something you didn't
>> care for was attributed to you, yet here you are making the ridiculous
>> claim that Palin stands for the same things as the man whose book she
>> quoted.
>>
>> I'll repeat your words to you, it's a damnable lie. You should be ashamed.
>>
>> But, let's take the comparison of these "role models" a little further.
>>
>> Look at the words, and those words alone, that Palin quoted. As you
>> said, innocuous enough.
>>
>> Now look at the words that the man at the top of the ticket on the other
>> side chose to quote:
>>
>> This is about a brochure from Dr Wright's church:
>>
>> -=-
>> There was one particular passage in Trinity's brochure that stood out,
>> though, a commandment more self-conscious in its tone, requiring greater
>> elaboration. "A Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness," the
>> heading read. "While it is permissible to chase 'middleincomeness' with
>> all our might," the text stated, those blessed with the talent or good
>> fortune to achieve success in the American mainstream must avoid the
>> "psychological entrapment of Black 'middleclassness' that hypnotizes the
>> successful brother or sister into believing they are better than the
>> rest and teaches them to think in terms of 'we' and 'they' instead of
>> 'US'!"
>>
>> My thoughts would often return to that declaration in the weeks that
>> followed as I met with various members of Trinity.
>>
>> -=-
>>
>> Of course, now that it suits his needs, Obama wants to support the
>> middle class. He needs their votes.
>>
>> Another quote from his book, this time Wright's own words that Obama
>> used in his book:
>>
>> -=-
>> "It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a
>> day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white
>> folks' greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy
>> in another hemisphere…That's the world! On which hope sits!…."
>>
>> (now Obama's words in response to Wright's)
>>
>> Those stories-of survival, and freedom, and hope-became our story, my
>> story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears;
>> until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel
>> carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger
>> world
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>> So, Palin quotes a notable, and noteworthy, quote, and you ascribe to
>> her every belief and philosphy of the author.
>>
>> Yet your chosen one quotes from an avowed and unapologetic bigot, and
>> uses bigoted words in the quote, and then claims those words "became my
>> story" and you give him a pass.
>>
>> Ben, how can you possibly not see the hypocrisy.
>>
>> Does The One quoting moronic words, not great words from a moronic man,
>> but moronic words from a moronic man, not make him a bigot???
>>
>> Of course not, not in the blind view of the leftist.
>>
>> But, at least you didn't call her words divisive and sarcastic. Did you
>> get a little off-message?
>>
>> It's encouraging though to see that you realize that there's a
>> possibility that she'll be elected. If so, then yeah, I'll take part of
>> the "blame" for it.
>>
>> Proudly.
>>
>>
>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>> Herb;
>>>
>>> I think it is important to point out that among the very first quotes you
>>> cite from Sarah Palin as complimentary to her is from her convention
>>> acceptance speech.  She quoted a "writer" (presumably a writer she
>>> admires)
>>> who said, "we grow good people in our small towns...etc".
>>> An innocuous enough statement, except that it was written by WESTBROOK
>>> PEGLER. We must assume she is a fan of old PEGLER, don't you think?  I
>>> mean
>>> why choose him to quote from if you don't follow his philosophy.  She
>>> could
>>> have chosen from thousands of writers complimentary to small town life
>>> (especially since she is so well read and intelligent, according to her
>>> supporters)
>>>
>>> Well, Herb look up Sarah's role model will you? He was among the most
>>> evil
>>> people ever to walk in this great country. He was a virulent  racist and
>>> anti-semite.  Ask Brad or Ed, they'll tell you.
>>> The man was a "MORON", and an evil stinking waste of a human body.
>>>
>>> Frank Rich had this to say on this subject recently in the NY Times:
>>>
>>> No less disconcerting was a still-unexplained passage of Palin's
>>> convention
>>> speech: Her use of an unattributed quote praising small-town America (as
>>> opposed to, say, Chicago and its community organizers) from Westbrook
>>> Pegler, the mid-century Hearst columnist famous for his anti-Semitism,
>>> racism and violent rhetorical excess. After an assassin tried to kill
>>> F.D.R.
>>> at a Florida rally and murdered Chicago's mayor instead in 1933, Pegler
>>> wrote that it was "regrettable that Giuseppe Zangara shot the wrong man."
>>> In
>>> the '60s, Pegler had a wish for Bobby Kennedy: "Some white patriot of the
>>> Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises
>>> before
>>> the snow falls."
>>>
>>> Sarah was sending a mesaage to us Herb.  Were you listening? I was.  I
>>> know
>>> exactly where she stands. Now so do you. If you help her get elected you
>>> will have no one to blame but yourself when she carries out her agenda.
>>>
>>> Ben Cittadino
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank Rich recently referred to this subject in the NYTimes as follows,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hparsons wrote:
>>>
>>>> No Ben, you're not "on to something". You're picking the worst of her
>>>> statements, and comparing them to the bets of Obama's.
>>>>
>>>> Obama and his campaign public ridiculed McCain because he didn't use the
>>>> internet, with the clear implication it was because of his age. Is that
>>>> the "inspire us to be and do great" man your presenting? I don't think
>>>> so.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a famous one from Obama:
>>>> "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like
>>>> them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to
>>>> explain their frustrations."
>>>>
>>>> Not exactly a "unifying" message, especially if you happen to like guns
>>>> or religion.
>>>>
>>>> And even though he doesn't want her included in the election, Michelle
>>>> Obama's now infamos "For the first time, I'm proud to be an American"
>>>> have meaning, and are worth noting.
>>>>
>>>> And Palin responded to both messages (if not the exact words). She said:
>>>>
>>>> A writer observed: 'We grow good people in our small towns, with
>>>> honesty, sincerity, and dignity.' I know just the kind of people that
>>>> writer had in mind when he praised Harry Truman.
>>>>
>>>> I grew up with those people. They are the ones who do some of the
>>>> hardest work in America … who grow our food, run our factories, and
>>>> fight our wars. They love their country, in good times and bad, and
>>>> they're always proud of America. I had the privilege of living most of
>>>> my life in a small town.
>>>>
>>>> Now, those words might not inspire the academic elite, but there are
>>>> common people like myself for whom they have meaning.
>>>>
>>>> And you notice, nary a word of sarcasm, division, or mean-spiritedness.
>>>> I couldn't say the same of either of the comments made by the Obama's.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some more from her that say a lot without being divisive, mean
>>>> spirited, or even sarcastic (with one small exception, the last one):
>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>> Politics isn't just a game of competing interests and clashing parties.
>>>> The people of America expect us to seek public office and to serve for
>>>> the right reasons. And the right reason is to challenge the status quo
>>>> and to serve the common good.
>>>> -=-
>>>> The right reason (for politics) is to challenge the status quo, to serve
>>>> the common good, and to leave this nation better than we found it.
>>>> -=-
>>>> Now, no one expects us to agree on everything, whether in Juneau or in
>>>> Washington. But we are expected to govern with integrity and good will
>>>> and clear convictions and a servant's heart.
>>>> -=-
>>>> I came to office promising major ethics reform, to end the culture of
>>>> self-dealing. And today, that ethics reform is the law.
>>>> -=-
>>>> And among the many things I owe them is one simple lesson: that this is
>>>> America, and every woman can walk through every door of opportunity.
>>>> -=-
>>>> I am a Washington outsider. I do not have those allegiances to the power
>>>> brokers, to the lobbyists. We need someone like that in Washington,
>>>> someone committed to the American people and implementing their will,
>>>> not the power brokers' will.
>>>> -=-
>>>> I believe in the strength and the power of women, and the potential of
>>>> every human life
>>>> -=-
>>>> Every child, of every ability, is to be cherished and loved and taught.
>>>> Every child provides this world hope. They are the most beautiful
>>>> ingredient in our sometimes muddied up world. I am committed to our
>>>> children and their education. Stepping through "the door" is about more
>>>> than passing a standardized test. We need kids prepared to pass life's
>>>> tests–like getting a job and valuing a strong work ethic.
>>>> -=-
>>>> This one, though a little bit sarcastic, sums up MY attitude about
>>>> Obama's "style"
>>>>
>>>> But listening to him (Barack Obama) speak, it's easy to forget that this
>>>> is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or
>>>> reform, not even in the state Senate.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I believe what you're doing is looking for excuses on why
>>>> you dislike Palin that sound better than the truth of "She messed up our
>>>> plans for an easy victory"
>>>> //
>>>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, you're on to something.  When my wife listens to Obama she hears
>>>>> Chairman Mao.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Benjamin Cittadino
>>>>> <bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You know Brad,Herb and Ed, I have been trying to think of a way to
>>>>>> express my
>>>>>> biggest problem with Palin. I think I may have the germ of an idea,
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> fully formed yet but I'd be interested in your reaction. Ross Perot,
>>>>>> crazy
>>>>>> little bugger that he was, did have a point when he said that one of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> most important jobs of the President was to make use of the "bully
>>>>>> pulpit"
>>>>>> that the office provides.  The Pres has no legislative or judicial
>>>>>> power
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> it is the power of inspiration and advocacy, and the power to make
>>>>>> Americans
>>>>>> feel good about themselves, and/or become motivated to meet great
>>>>>> challenges
>>>>>> as a nation that makes the office so important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think about listening to FDR, Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Sr.  These men
>>>>>> moved
>>>>>> us to handle the challenges of their times. Clinton was such a man as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>> When we listen to Barak Obama speak, I believe most Americans hear
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>> inspiration.  Even you men, if you could forget what you think you
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> about his past, if you just LISTEN to the words, he makes everybody
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> listens to him want to be and do great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When people listen to Ms Palin, half are inspired to hate the other
>>>>>> half.
>>>>>> In the words of "W", she's a divider not a uniter.  Her sarcastic and
>>>>>> mean
>>>>>> spirited references to real Americans vs. THE OTHERS, is a call to the
>>>>>> worst
>>>>>> in each of us, a call to blame  THEM for our troubles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you see? Do you hear it? Am I on to something here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TN Rhodey-2 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herb, I do see the difference. I also understand the scholarship is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> raising your kids. Do you see that? You ignored that part of my post.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> wonder why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My definition would includes the most prestigious scholarship i am
>>>>>>> aware
>>>>>>> of.
>>>>>>> Can you name a more prestigious academic scholarship? You respond to
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>> but never answered the question.  I do agree that more people seek a
>>>>>>> HS
>>>>>>> diploma than a Rhodes Scholarship. You will argue the silliest
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway iyou agreed with main point....a Rhodes Scholarship does not
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> a good person or president.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Herb Parsons
>>>>>>> <hparsons at parsonsys.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben's Definition - "single most prestigious, competitive, sought
>>>>>>>> after,
>>>>>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"
>>>>>>>> Wally's Definition - "a highly sought after ACADEMIC scholarship"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do hope you see the difference between the two. I'd be willing to
>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> a bet with anyone on here, ANYONE. I'd be willing to bet that there
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> more people seeking a high school diploma in any one year than there
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> seeking Rhodes scholarships. I think a HS diploma would be a much
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> sought after honor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's the problem with hyperbole. People get so caught up in saying
>>>>>>>> things that they quickly lose track of what they are saying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, the real point to this is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does having gaining a Rhodes scholarship make on more qualified for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> white house? I don't think so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TN Rhodey wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ed, Perhaps you are letting your opinion of Clinton tarnish the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of a Rhodes Scholarship. As Ben mentioned it is a highly sought
>>>>>>>>> after ACADEMIC scholarship. This is not his definition this is
>>>>>>>>> reality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> there a more prestigious post graduate scholarship offered?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Rhodes scholarship is not awarded for raising a family or
>>>>>>>>> imparting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> approved values.  It is nothing like Mormons sent abroad.....they
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> selected for their mission based on academics. Many who achieve the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> academic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> honors you mention are later selected for a Rhodes Scholarship.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most seem to recognize that a Rhodes Scholarship is awarded to the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cream
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the academic crop. Beings a Rhodes Scholar does not guarantee high
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> morals,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> post graduate achievement, or groom one for future presidency. I
>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> many Rhodes scholars own Rhodes sailboats?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wally
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar…"  "Surely you realize this
>>>>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>>>>> graduate
>>>>>>>>>> grant is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>>>>>>>> challenging, and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> receive. Please tell me you accept that fact."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ben in American it is acceptable to have people with other
>>>>>>>>>> opinions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> understood that one opinion is not necessarily the absolute
>>>>>>>>>> epiphany.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So as to your statement, I will accept what you said about 'a
>>>>>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>>>>> Scholar' as fact to you.  And that is your opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My opinion is not the same and my values are not the same.  And I
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> Americans who share my opinion, and may know some who share yours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for the part that part that says, "single most prestigious,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> competitive,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sought after, challenging, and rewarding academic honor…"  I
>>>>>>>>>> suggest
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> may be true, but only to those who seek that specific type
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> recognition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your definition does not include 'Scientific Achievements' of an
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> academic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nature.  Your definition does not include 'Achievements' of
>>>>>>>>>> economic,
>>>>>>>>>> religious, social (to include community) and a plethora of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> achievements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> may have other or different academic measurements.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So I give the Rhodes Scholar the same or equal weight as cum laude
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> summa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cum laude, or other academic honors.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In summary, while it is nice to have some who go to another
>>>>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>>>>> for a year or two, I do not limit my recognition of important
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> that group.  I am not a Mormon, but their practice of sending
>>>>>>>>>> young
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> men
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> missions to different parts of this country or other countries
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> accomplishes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a similar education.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A researcher who finds important medical facts about diseases to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> equal or greater achievement. than a Rhodes Scholar.  And, note
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can be accomplished in an Academic laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A young lady who finds a husband and has several children and
>>>>>>>>>> imparts
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> those children important societal values to me is a higher
>>>>>>>>>> achievement
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> your Rhodes Scholar.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, we do not agree.  Others are free to agree with you.  What we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> talking about is the difference between 'Conservative' values and
>>>>>>>>>> liberalism.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>>>> addendum, ""A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The
>>>>>>>>>> laws
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in
>>>>>>>>>> danger,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of higher obligation."    Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Benjamin Cittadino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tootle;
>>>>>>>>>>> I recently called Bill Clinton a genius in defending my position
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is not her accent that makes Sarah Palin a moron. Clinton has a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> pronounced
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> accent.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As you must have known , but perhaps have blocked from your
>>>>>>>>>>> memory,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.  Surely you realize this post
>>>>>>>>>>> graduate
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is the single most prestigious, competitive, sought after,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> challenging,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and rewarding academic honor that a college graduate can receive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tell me you accept that fact.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Clinton speaks in complete, gramatically correct, coherant
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> English
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> sentences.  His paragraphs have a beginning, a middle and an end
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hang
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> together as eloquent expressions of a complete thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Clinton can talk for hours on esoteric subjects of foreign
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> domestic policy, without notes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He is spontaneously witty, charming, quick, and isn't afraid to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "intellectual". He is utterly unafraid to be challenged on any
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone, and is a persuasive advocate for his point of view.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah Palin spouts transparently canned lines, which almost
>>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> include
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the words, "maverick, soccar Mom, pit bull, Joe six-pack, hockey
>>>>>>>>>>> mom,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> americans, and/or you betcha" over and over.  She has one talent,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> sarcasm,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and it is no wonder to me why she is so popular with some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> She wants to be VP to a man who has had multiple bouts with
>>>>>>>>>>> serious
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cancer
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and is of advanced age.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not alone in my assessment of this person.  David Brooks and
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> right of center writers like Peggy Noonan and others feel exactly
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> way.  I'm in good company in my assessment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Who thinks she is not a moron?  As far as I can tell, only afew
>>>>>>>>>>> hardy
>>>>>>>>>>> souls on this forum.  Well, good luck with that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS- for purposes of this discussion I define moron as a person of
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> obvious
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual incapacity who is also mean, nasty, sarcastic and
>>>>>>>>>>> adds
>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to the public discourse. It is a function of both
>>>>>>>>>>> attitude
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AND
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> aptitude.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PPS-Yes Tootle I know that makes me a moron in your eyes. I can
>>>>>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is he getting the thirst for 'politics'?  Maybe the governorship
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> say,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Illinois, Pennsylvania, Virginia ... sounds like he as an
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience
>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>>>>>>  http://www.nabble.com/file/p20149918/WigeeBoard.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>> WigeeBoard.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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