[Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to Saroj

R22RumRunner at aol.com R22RumRunner at aol.com
Wed Oct 29 05:56:59 EDT 2008


Saroj,
 
Silicone is silicone no matter where it comes from. Just read the label and  
make sure it will stand up to constant contact with water......
 
Rummy
 
 
In a message dated 10/28/2008 5:57:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
saroj at pathfind.net writes:

Is that  just plain ole Silicon II from Lowes?  I notice that West Marine  
charges 3 times as much for the same stuff that I can get at  Lowes.

Thanks
Saroj

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
To:  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:47  PM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to  
Saroj


> Saroj,
> Silicone sealant was made to be used  in a compression gasket, so it is the
> perfect thing for your gasket  seal. You will want to hand tighten the 
> bolts and
> then  starting in the middle, siz zag back and forth from side to side
>  working  towards the ends. This will assure that you have equal pressure  
> in all
> areas and  no lumps in the  middle.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated  10/28/2008 3:08:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> lsr3 at nyu.edu  writes:
>
> Saroj
>
> Yes I am the one who posted the  article with Roger on the  Owner's site.
> when I finally get  MySpace page up it will have more pics of  the job.
>
>  insofar as  tightening or torquing the bolts so that no  leak occurs  I
> will say that its one of the most important jobs  before  launcing.
> My CB is still a work in progress so I will pull it  after  just
> sailing the first 3 months after working on the boat  for 4yrs..  Only
> to check the
> pivot and examine my  trunk.  My board gave  me absolutely no problem
> and Im  pulling the boat out Friday, God  willing.
>
> Ok for the  threading  I truly believe that the pennant  line should be
>  connected through its hole then treaded to two mini  blocks or
>  something that functions as such on the cap.  You are  saying  below
> that your line starts from a "small U bracket fore of  the  foremost
> block on the cap".   For a true mechanical   advantage in this small
> area to work I think you need 2 blocks  on  the board and two on the
> cap.   Btw if you research  the  archives you will see a  few pictures
> of how the board  is  supposed to be threaded.   I completely ripped
>  out  what makeshift things I had when i looked inside and  installed
> Harken Mini blocks which are really not that expensive. I  made a
> Ushaped bracket to hold my dual mini block Harken which  attaches to
> the inside of my cap with 2  1/4x20  bolts.
>
> Last June I made  the mistake of using 5200 and  got too much on the
> pennant.  I  had to re install the board  again ( one day wasted) and
> used  Silicone sealant from  Boatlife.  Just make sure you protect the
> pennant from any  sealant with a light plastic wrap from your
> kitchen.   I  also bought a  new Neoprene gasket and punched  holes .
> This  fall I intend to re use the neoprene if possible by  soaking the
>  gasket in mineral spirits for a few days.
>
> As Ed  said  5200 is for permanent things on the boat.  Not the CB
> gasket or  the cap as you should look at it every few years on a good
>  boat.
> good luck
> Lou
>
>
>
> On Oct 28,  2008, at 2:27 PM,  Saroj Gilbert wrote:
>
>> Hey, Ed, Ben,  Rob, Rik, Rummy,  Lou,
>>
>> Thanks all for the  info.  Based on what I've read,  I'm going to
>> replace  all
>> the screws with  bolts.
>>
>> Lou, are  you the one who did the write-up with Roger in  2005-2006?
>>  When you
>> say "torque" are you implying  you actually used a  torque wrench or
>> just as a
>>  euphemism for  "tightened"?
>>
>> My centerboard lift line has a   different configuration from that in
>> the
>> article  I  referenced above.  It starts from a small U bracket  fore
>>  of the
>> foremost block on the cap.   Since the blocks on the CB  were broken
>> I don't
>>  know how it was threaded below, but  it seems to have gone from  that
>> loop
>> thru the highest  block on the CB, back  up to the the foremost block
>> on  the
>> cap (an inch  aft of the loop), back down to the lower block on  the
>> CB  (2-3
>> inches below the other one) then up thru  the aft block  on the cap
>> which acts
>> as a fair lead,  then thru  the hole and nipple for the lift line.
>> It  seems
>>  that there should be another block lower down on the CB to give   an
>> extra
>> mechanical advantage and more pull on  the  extreme, but I never had any
>> trouble raising or lowering  the CB before  the break.
>>
>> I'm still wondering  what sealant/caulk to  use.  The guy at West Marine
>>  recommended 3M 4200 but I think it  is essentially an adhesive  like
>> 5200,
>> just not as  permanent.  Lou,  what did you use?  Seems like an
>>  underwater
>>  silicone (like Silicone II) would work well.  I've  never had  any
>> trouble
>> with leaking, but I might as well  do  it right while its apart.  I
>> would
>> consider   changing the gasket but it appears to be in very good
>>   condition.
>>
>> I've been renovating a 1937 house for the  past 4  years, so
>> Pathfinder has
>> been on the hard  in my back  yard during that time.  It wasn't worth
>>  paying
>> the  slip fees when I didn't have time to use  it.  We're replacing
>> the mast
>> lights... the  anchor light lens was cloudy and I  lost the steaming/
>>  deck
>> light when a branch fell on it.   I'm replacing the  anchor light
>> with an
>> incandescent,  but the  steaming/deck light with LED.  Figure that
>> will   help
>> the battery charging life, and will be installing a solar  panel  for
>> trickle
>>  charge.
>>
>> All of the  brightwork needs sanding  & varnishing and have to clean
>> up  some
>> sap  on the deck.  Washed all the lines and the sails and she   is
>> just about
>> back to sailing condition.   She  still looks great even at her
>> advanced age
>>  of 24  years!
>>
>> I'll continue on with the cosmetic  work (screens,  varnish,
>> polishingetc.)
>> over the  next year; but we're  hoping to get a few sails in before
>>  winter
>> "really"  gets here, although the way things are going  that may be
>>  optimisitc.  Monday afternoon it was  delightful sailing  weather.
>> Today it
>> is windy  and cold...  unseasonably for this region.
>>
>> Ed, I  met a fellow from Richmond  a few years ago (Rob, was that
>>  you?), but I
>> haven't run  into any Rhodes owners in the  Tidewater region.  I'm
>>  living in
>> Hampton  now.
>>
>> Thanks all for your well wishes  and the  great information to help
>> us get
>> this project   completed.
>>
>> Saroj
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original  Message -----
>> From: "Lou Rosenberg"  <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>> To:  "The Rhodes 22 Email List"  <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent:  Tuesday, October  28, 2008 12:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list]  centerboard  repair - cap sealant?
>> reply to
>>   Saroj
>>
>>
>> Rik
>>
>> I use  10x24 ss bolts on my  cap.  I prefer to tighten the nut  under
>> the cap using a closed  end wrench with
>>  my  electric driver and the correct wide phillips  bit in  place.  Do a
>> criss cross pattern like lacing up   boots
>> and torque the nut with a rachet wrench with the phillips  bit  and
>> just hold the nut in place with the same closed end  wrench  (7/16")
>> took me about 1hr to do 46  bolts.
>>
>> Ive  overhauled my entire centerboard cap,  trunk and board including
>> the  mechanical  advantage
>>
>> Lou
>> sv   Miracles
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:43  AM,  R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>  Rik,
>>> It takes  really small hands and a second person. I  recommend using an
>>>  electric driver or you will be  spending the better part of a day
>>>  installing all   of
>>> them. I have never seen screws used on the  trunk  cap.
>>>
>>>  Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>>  In a message dated  10/28/2008 11:21:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>   sanderico1 at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>   Ed,
>>>
>>> I have to ask, how would you use through  bolts on  the  centerboard
>>> cap of
>>> an  R22?? I can't imagine  how you are going to hold the  nuts  to
>>> tighten  them.
>>>
>>>  Rik
>>>
>>> Will Rogers often  said,  "There's  nothing quite like money in the
>>> bank."   He
>>> went on to say, "I'm not so  concerned about the  return on  my money
>>> as I am
>>> about the  return of my    money."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Tootle  wrote:
>>>>  Saroj:
>>>>
>>>> As to   sealants, do  not use 5200 like some boat builders.  It is
>>>>   called
>>>>  sealant but it is permanent and prevents  future  repair,
>>>> painting,   etc.
>>>>
>>>> I  recommend a sealant that  says for under water  use.  3M 4000  or
>>>>  4200 are
>>>> numbers I can think of  quickly.    Go to the 3M website and see
>>>> which one   is
>>>> for underwater use.  (I  know the cap is  not  underwater, except at
>>>>  times)
>>>>
>>>>  Another  popular  product is Boat Life Sealant, not Boat Life   Caulk.
>>>>
>>>> As  to silicone products,  make  sure it says for underwater use.
>>>>  Silicone
>>>  II
>>>> is said to be the better  formulation of silcone  sealants.
>>>>
>>>>  I would not go to Lowes.  Go to  any dockside marine  store or  if
>>>> you have  to
>>>> the high dollar  'West Marine'.  It would  be  better to pay the  few
>>>> extra
>>>> schekels at West  to  get a quality  product.
>>>>
>>>> As to  screws  and bolts, Stan uses a million bolts at  the  shop.
>>>> Maybe  older
>>>> boats had a  mix, but I would opt to go to  thru  bolts, all  one
>>>> million of
>>>> them.  Also,   after you tighten all  the first time, go around a
>>>>  second  time
>>>> and maybe a third.  A  small  1/4" rachet works  for this job.  If
>>>> you do  not
>>>> have  one,  head for Sears and get a  Craftsman  set.
>>>>
>>>> It is good to see  your  post.   Are in in contact with any  other
>>>>  'Tidewater'
>>>>   Rhodies?
>>>>
>>>> Ed   K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Saroj  Gilbert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> any  chance I  can ask a  question about the Rhodes22?   LOL...
>>>>>
>>>>> my centerboard   would not  raise or lower so friend and I took  the
>>>>>  cap
>>>>> apart;  found  that the blocks had broken off the  CB;  scraped,
>>>>> sanded, and
>>>>>   painted  the inside of the cap, the well and the CB  (all
>>>>>  encrusted   with
>>>>> barnacles).  We have it put back   together except for the  cap
>>>>> which has   the
>>>>> gasket which was already there... appears  in   pretty good
>>>>> shape.   We
>>>>>  modified some blocks which was   challenging since the  attachment
>>>>> area is  so
>>>>> small.   Also did  some fiberglass  repair on the CB and the   keel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two    questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> - most of the holes  had  screws but some had  bolts... I assume
>>>>>  that  an
>>>>> earlier owner had stripped out the  screw   holes.  Is it likely
>>>>> that  reusing
>>>>>  the screws will provide  sufficient  pressure to prevent leaks  or
>>>>> should  we
>>>>> go to the  trouble  of replacing all with  bolts... I'd prefer not
>>>>>   because
>>>>>  there are so many, but I don't want  leaks  obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> -   what sealant should  we use? I took off the old sealant  which
>>>>> was a   blue
>>>>>  colored rubbery substance that came off pretty easily  from   both
>>>>> sides.
>>>>> Roger's   instructions said to use silicone.  Is  there  a
>>>>>  particular type or
>>>>> any  old stuff from Lowes?  If  we  use silicon, do we need to  let
>>>>> it cure  a
>>>>> little  before clamping  down 100% to give it a  chance to  cure?
>>>>> (seems to me
>>>>> it   requires  air to start the curing process).  Has anyone   used
>>>>> RTV...
>>>>>  overkill for  this  application?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have  searched and   searched for the tech info material that  was
>>>>>  created
>>>>> and  organized  years ago with no luck.   Can someone give me a  URL
>>>>> for it  or
>>>>>  does  it no longer  exist?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Thanks,  Saroj
>>>>>    __________________________________________________
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>>>>> go  to
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>>>>>    __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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