[Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to Saroj
stan
stan at rhodes22.com
Wed Oct 29 09:14:25 EDT 2008
As I have covered in the past, the cb caps are installed with a re-usable
neoprene gasket. NO sealants should be used. A kit with what can be a
lifetime reusable neoprene gasket, all necessary ss machine screws and ss
nuts and all fender washers is $100.
ss
----- Original Message -----
From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to
Saroj
> Saroj,
>
> Silicone is silicone no matter where it comes from. Just read the label
> and
> make sure it will stand up to constant contact with water......
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 10/28/2008 5:57:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> saroj at pathfind.net writes:
>
> Is that just plain ole Silicon II from Lowes? I notice that West Marine
> charges 3 times as much for the same stuff that I can get at Lowes.
>
> Thanks
> Saroj
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to
> Saroj
>
>
>> Saroj,
>> Silicone sealant was made to be used in a compression gasket, so it is
>> the
>> perfect thing for your gasket seal. You will want to hand tighten the
>> bolts and
>> then starting in the middle, siz zag back and forth from side to side
>> working towards the ends. This will assure that you have equal pressure
>> in all
>> areas and no lumps in the middle.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/28/2008 3:08:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> lsr3 at nyu.edu writes:
>>
>> Saroj
>>
>> Yes I am the one who posted the article with Roger on the Owner's site.
>> when I finally get MySpace page up it will have more pics of the job.
>>
>> insofar as tightening or torquing the bolts so that no leak occurs I
>> will say that its one of the most important jobs before launcing.
>> My CB is still a work in progress so I will pull it after just
>> sailing the first 3 months after working on the boat for 4yrs.. Only
>> to check the
>> pivot and examine my trunk. My board gave me absolutely no problem
>> and Im pulling the boat out Friday, God willing.
>>
>> Ok for the threading I truly believe that the pennant line should be
>> connected through its hole then treaded to two mini blocks or
>> something that functions as such on the cap. You are saying below
>> that your line starts from a "small U bracket fore of the foremost
>> block on the cap". For a true mechanical advantage in this small
>> area to work I think you need 2 blocks on the board and two on the
>> cap. Btw if you research the archives you will see a few pictures
>> of how the board is supposed to be threaded. I completely ripped
>> out what makeshift things I had when i looked inside and installed
>> Harken Mini blocks which are really not that expensive. I made a
>> Ushaped bracket to hold my dual mini block Harken which attaches to
>> the inside of my cap with 2 1/4x20 bolts.
>>
>> Last June I made the mistake of using 5200 and got too much on the
>> pennant. I had to re install the board again ( one day wasted) and
>> used Silicone sealant from Boatlife. Just make sure you protect the
>> pennant from any sealant with a light plastic wrap from your
>> kitchen. I also bought a new Neoprene gasket and punched holes .
>> This fall I intend to re use the neoprene if possible by soaking the
>> gasket in mineral spirits for a few days.
>>
>> As Ed said 5200 is for permanent things on the boat. Not the CB
>> gasket or the cap as you should look at it every few years on a good
>> boat.
>> good luck
>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Saroj Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, Ed, Ben, Rob, Rik, Rummy, Lou,
>>>
>>> Thanks all for the info. Based on what I've read, I'm going to
>>> replace all
>>> the screws with bolts.
>>>
>>> Lou, are you the one who did the write-up with Roger in 2005-2006?
>>> When you
>>> say "torque" are you implying you actually used a torque wrench or
>>> just as a
>>> euphemism for "tightened"?
>>>
>>> My centerboard lift line has a different configuration from that in
>>> the
>>> article I referenced above. It starts from a small U bracket fore
>>> of the
>>> foremost block on the cap. Since the blocks on the CB were broken
>>> I don't
>>> know how it was threaded below, but it seems to have gone from that
>>> loop
>>> thru the highest block on the CB, back up to the the foremost block
>>> on the
>>> cap (an inch aft of the loop), back down to the lower block on the
>>> CB (2-3
>>> inches below the other one) then up thru the aft block on the cap
>>> which acts
>>> as a fair lead, then thru the hole and nipple for the lift line.
>>> It seems
>>> that there should be another block lower down on the CB to give an
>>> extra
>>> mechanical advantage and more pull on the extreme, but I never had any
>>> trouble raising or lowering the CB before the break.
>>>
>>> I'm still wondering what sealant/caulk to use. The guy at West Marine
>>> recommended 3M 4200 but I think it is essentially an adhesive like
>>> 5200,
>>> just not as permanent. Lou, what did you use? Seems like an
>>> underwater
>>> silicone (like Silicone II) would work well. I've never had any
>>> trouble
>>> with leaking, but I might as well do it right while its apart. I
>>> would
>>> consider changing the gasket but it appears to be in very good
>>> condition.
>>>
>>> I've been renovating a 1937 house for the past 4 years, so
>>> Pathfinder has
>>> been on the hard in my back yard during that time. It wasn't worth
>>> paying
>>> the slip fees when I didn't have time to use it. We're replacing
>>> the mast
>>> lights... the anchor light lens was cloudy and I lost the steaming/
>>> deck
>>> light when a branch fell on it. I'm replacing the anchor light
>>> with an
>>> incandescent, but the steaming/deck light with LED. Figure that
>>> will help
>>> the battery charging life, and will be installing a solar panel for
>>> trickle
>>> charge.
>>>
>>> All of the brightwork needs sanding & varnishing and have to clean
>>> up some
>>> sap on the deck. Washed all the lines and the sails and she is
>>> just about
>>> back to sailing condition. She still looks great even at her
>>> advanced age
>>> of 24 years!
>>>
>>> I'll continue on with the cosmetic work (screens, varnish,
>>> polishingetc.)
>>> over the next year; but we're hoping to get a few sails in before
>>> winter
>>> "really" gets here, although the way things are going that may be
>>> optimisitc. Monday afternoon it was delightful sailing weather.
>>> Today it
>>> is windy and cold... unseasonably for this region.
>>>
>>> Ed, I met a fellow from Richmond a few years ago (Rob, was that
>>> you?), but I
>>> haven't run into any Rhodes owners in the Tidewater region. I'm
>>> living in
>>> Hampton now.
>>>
>>> Thanks all for your well wishes and the great information to help
>>> us get
>>> this project completed.
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:32 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant?
>>> reply to
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>>
>>> Rik
>>>
>>> I use 10x24 ss bolts on my cap. I prefer to tighten the nut under
>>> the cap using a closed end wrench with
>>> my electric driver and the correct wide phillips bit in place. Do a
>>> criss cross pattern like lacing up boots
>>> and torque the nut with a rachet wrench with the phillips bit and
>>> just hold the nut in place with the same closed end wrench (7/16")
>>> took me about 1hr to do 46 bolts.
>>>
>>> Ive overhauled my entire centerboard cap, trunk and board including
>>> the mechanical advantage
>>>
>>> Lou
>>> sv Miracles
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:43 AM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rik,
>>>> It takes really small hands and a second person. I recommend using an
>>>> electric driver or you will be spending the better part of a day
>>>> installing all of
>>>> them. I have never seen screws used on the trunk cap.
>>>>
>>>> Rummy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 10/28/2008 11:21:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> sanderico1 at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Ed,
>>>>
>>>> I have to ask, how would you use through bolts on the centerboard
>>>> cap of
>>>> an R22?? I can't imagine how you are going to hold the nuts to
>>>> tighten them.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>> Will Rogers often said, "There's nothing quite like money in the
>>>> bank." He
>>>> went on to say, "I'm not so concerned about the return on my money
>>>> as I am
>>>> about the return of my money."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>> Saroj:
>>>>>
>>>>> As to sealants, do not use 5200 like some boat builders. It is
>>>>> called
>>>>> sealant but it is permanent and prevents future repair,
>>>>> painting, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recommend a sealant that says for under water use. 3M 4000 or
>>>>> 4200 are
>>>>> numbers I can think of quickly. Go to the 3M website and see
>>>>> which one is
>>>>> for underwater use. (I know the cap is not underwater, except at
>>>>> times)
>>>>>
>>>>> Another popular product is Boat Life Sealant, not Boat Life
>>>>> Caulk.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to silicone products, make sure it says for underwater use.
>>>>> Silicone
>>>> II
>>>>> is said to be the better formulation of silcone sealants.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would not go to Lowes. Go to any dockside marine store or if
>>>>> you have to
>>>>> the high dollar 'West Marine'. It would be better to pay the few
>>>>> extra
>>>>> schekels at West to get a quality product.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to screws and bolts, Stan uses a million bolts at the shop.
>>>>> Maybe older
>>>>> boats had a mix, but I would opt to go to thru bolts, all one
>>>>> million of
>>>>> them. Also, after you tighten all the first time, go around a
>>>>> second time
>>>>> and maybe a third. A small 1/4" rachet works for this job. If
>>>>> you do not
>>>>> have one, head for Sears and get a Craftsman set.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is good to see your post. Are in in contact with any other
>>>>> 'Tidewater'
>>>>> Rhodies?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Saroj Gilbert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> any chance I can ask a question about the Rhodes22? LOL...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my centerboard would not raise or lower so friend and I took the
>>>>>> cap
>>>>>> apart; found that the blocks had broken off the CB; scraped,
>>>>>> sanded, and
>>>>>> painted the inside of the cap, the well and the CB (all
>>>>>> encrusted with
>>>>>> barnacles). We have it put back together except for the cap
>>>>>> which has the
>>>>>> gasket which was already there... appears in pretty good
>>>>>> shape. We
>>>>>> modified some blocks which was challenging since the attachment
>>>>>> area is so
>>>>>> small. Also did some fiberglass repair on the CB and the keel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - most of the holes had screws but some had bolts... I assume
>>>>>> that an
>>>>>> earlier owner had stripped out the screw holes. Is it likely
>>>>>> that reusing
>>>>>> the screws will provide sufficient pressure to prevent leaks or
>>>>>> should we
>>>>>> go to the trouble of replacing all with bolts... I'd prefer not
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> there are so many, but I don't want leaks obviously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - what sealant should we use? I took off the old sealant which
>>>>>> was a blue
>>>>>> colored rubbery substance that came off pretty easily from both
>>>>>> sides.
>>>>>> Roger's instructions said to use silicone. Is there a
>>>>>> particular type or
>>>>>> any old stuff from Lowes? If we use silicon, do we need to let
>>>>>> it cure a
>>>>>> little before clamping down 100% to give it a chance to cure?
>>>>>> (seems to me
>>>>>> it requires air to start the curing process). Has anyone used
>>>>>> RTV...
>>>>>> overkill for this application?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have searched and searched for the tech info material that was
>>>>>> created
>>>>>> and organized years ago with no luck. Can someone give me a URL
>>>>>> for it or
>>>>>> does it no longer exist?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Saroj
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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