[Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? question for Stan
Saroj Gilbert
saroj at pathfind.net
Wed Oct 29 12:38:06 EDT 2008
many thanks Stan... my 1984 boat was GB refurbished not too long before I
bought her (1994 if I remember correctly) so is it safe to assume that it is
also a "lifetime reusable neoprene gasket"? It seems in good shape but I'll
have another look... I've got a source here for free nuts, bolts, and
washers so I'm good there.
I'm puzzled about why mostly screws instead of bolts and why the RTV
sealant... did you change your process after that? course someone else
might have messed with it following the refurbish.
Saroj
----- Original Message -----
From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to
Saroj
> As I have covered in the past, the cb caps are installed with a re-usable
> neoprene gasket. NO sealants should be used. A kit with what can be a
> lifetime reusable neoprene gasket, all necessary ss machine screws and ss
> nuts and all fender washers is $100.
>
> ss
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to
> Saroj
>
>
>> Saroj,
>>
>> Silicone is silicone no matter where it comes from. Just read the label
>> and
>> make sure it will stand up to constant contact with water......
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/28/2008 5:57:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> saroj at pathfind.net writes:
>>
>> Is that just plain ole Silicon II from Lowes? I notice that West Marine
>> charges 3 times as much for the same stuff that I can get at Lowes.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Saroj
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant? reply to
>> Saroj
>>
>>
>>> Saroj,
>>> Silicone sealant was made to be used in a compression gasket, so it is
>>> the
>>> perfect thing for your gasket seal. You will want to hand tighten the
>>> bolts and
>>> then starting in the middle, siz zag back and forth from side to side
>>> working towards the ends. This will assure that you have equal
>>> pressure
>>> in all
>>> areas and no lumps in the middle.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 10/28/2008 3:08:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> lsr3 at nyu.edu writes:
>>>
>>> Saroj
>>>
>>> Yes I am the one who posted the article with Roger on the Owner's
>>> site.
>>> when I finally get MySpace page up it will have more pics of the job.
>>>
>>> insofar as tightening or torquing the bolts so that no leak occurs I
>>> will say that its one of the most important jobs before launcing.
>>> My CB is still a work in progress so I will pull it after just
>>> sailing the first 3 months after working on the boat for 4yrs.. Only
>>> to check the
>>> pivot and examine my trunk. My board gave me absolutely no problem
>>> and Im pulling the boat out Friday, God willing.
>>>
>>> Ok for the threading I truly believe that the pennant line should be
>>> connected through its hole then treaded to two mini blocks or
>>> something that functions as such on the cap. You are saying below
>>> that your line starts from a "small U bracket fore of the foremost
>>> block on the cap". For a true mechanical advantage in this small
>>> area to work I think you need 2 blocks on the board and two on the
>>> cap. Btw if you research the archives you will see a few pictures
>>> of how the board is supposed to be threaded. I completely ripped
>>> out what makeshift things I had when i looked inside and installed
>>> Harken Mini blocks which are really not that expensive. I made a
>>> Ushaped bracket to hold my dual mini block Harken which attaches to
>>> the inside of my cap with 2 1/4x20 bolts.
>>>
>>> Last June I made the mistake of using 5200 and got too much on the
>>> pennant. I had to re install the board again ( one day wasted) and
>>> used Silicone sealant from Boatlife. Just make sure you protect the
>>> pennant from any sealant with a light plastic wrap from your
>>> kitchen. I also bought a new Neoprene gasket and punched holes .
>>> This fall I intend to re use the neoprene if possible by soaking the
>>> gasket in mineral spirits for a few days.
>>>
>>> As Ed said 5200 is for permanent things on the boat. Not the CB
>>> gasket or the cap as you should look at it every few years on a good
>>> boat.
>>> good luck
>>> Lou
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Saroj Gilbert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey, Ed, Ben, Rob, Rik, Rummy, Lou,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all for the info. Based on what I've read, I'm going to
>>>> replace all
>>>> the screws with bolts.
>>>>
>>>> Lou, are you the one who did the write-up with Roger in 2005-2006?
>>>> When you
>>>> say "torque" are you implying you actually used a torque wrench or
>>>> just as a
>>>> euphemism for "tightened"?
>>>>
>>>> My centerboard lift line has a different configuration from that in
>>>> the
>>>> article I referenced above. It starts from a small U bracket fore
>>>> of the
>>>> foremost block on the cap. Since the blocks on the CB were broken
>>>> I don't
>>>> know how it was threaded below, but it seems to have gone from that
>>>> loop
>>>> thru the highest block on the CB, back up to the the foremost block
>>>> on the
>>>> cap (an inch aft of the loop), back down to the lower block on the
>>>> CB (2-3
>>>> inches below the other one) then up thru the aft block on the cap
>>>> which acts
>>>> as a fair lead, then thru the hole and nipple for the lift line.
>>>> It seems
>>>> that there should be another block lower down on the CB to give an
>>>> extra
>>>> mechanical advantage and more pull on the extreme, but I never had
>>>> any
>>>> trouble raising or lowering the CB before the break.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still wondering what sealant/caulk to use. The guy at West
>>>> Marine
>>>> recommended 3M 4200 but I think it is essentially an adhesive like
>>>> 5200,
>>>> just not as permanent. Lou, what did you use? Seems like an
>>>> underwater
>>>> silicone (like Silicone II) would work well. I've never had any
>>>> trouble
>>>> with leaking, but I might as well do it right while its apart. I
>>>> would
>>>> consider changing the gasket but it appears to be in very good
>>>> condition.
>>>>
>>>> I've been renovating a 1937 house for the past 4 years, so
>>>> Pathfinder has
>>>> been on the hard in my back yard during that time. It wasn't worth
>>>> paying
>>>> the slip fees when I didn't have time to use it. We're replacing
>>>> the mast
>>>> lights... the anchor light lens was cloudy and I lost the steaming/
>>>> deck
>>>> light when a branch fell on it. I'm replacing the anchor light
>>>> with an
>>>> incandescent, but the steaming/deck light with LED. Figure that
>>>> will help
>>>> the battery charging life, and will be installing a solar panel for
>>>> trickle
>>>> charge.
>>>>
>>>> All of the brightwork needs sanding & varnishing and have to clean
>>>> up some
>>>> sap on the deck. Washed all the lines and the sails and she is
>>>> just about
>>>> back to sailing condition. She still looks great even at her
>>>> advanced age
>>>> of 24 years!
>>>>
>>>> I'll continue on with the cosmetic work (screens, varnish,
>>>> polishingetc.)
>>>> over the next year; but we're hoping to get a few sails in before
>>>> winter
>>>> "really" gets here, although the way things are going that may be
>>>> optimisitc. Monday afternoon it was delightful sailing weather.
>>>> Today it
>>>> is windy and cold... unseasonably for this region.
>>>>
>>>> Ed, I met a fellow from Richmond a few years ago (Rob, was that
>>>> you?), but I
>>>> haven't run into any Rhodes owners in the Tidewater region. I'm
>>>> living in
>>>> Hampton now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all for your well wishes and the great information to help
>>>> us get
>>>> this project completed.
>>>>
>>>> Saroj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lou Rosenberg" <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:32 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] centerboard repair - cap sealant?
>>>> reply to
>>>> Saroj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>> I use 10x24 ss bolts on my cap. I prefer to tighten the nut under
>>>> the cap using a closed end wrench with
>>>> my electric driver and the correct wide phillips bit in place. Do
>>>> a
>>>> criss cross pattern like lacing up boots
>>>> and torque the nut with a rachet wrench with the phillips bit and
>>>> just hold the nut in place with the same closed end wrench (7/16")
>>>> took me about 1hr to do 46 bolts.
>>>>
>>>> Ive overhauled my entire centerboard cap, trunk and board including
>>>> the mechanical advantage
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>> sv Miracles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:43 AM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Rik,
>>>>> It takes really small hands and a second person. I recommend using
>>>>> an
>>>>> electric driver or you will be spending the better part of a day
>>>>> installing all of
>>>>> them. I have never seen screws used on the trunk cap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rummy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 10/28/2008 11:21:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>> sanderico1 at gmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to ask, how would you use through bolts on the centerboard
>>>>> cap of
>>>>> an R22?? I can't imagine how you are going to hold the nuts to
>>>>> tighten them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rik
>>>>>
>>>>> Will Rogers often said, "There's nothing quite like money in the
>>>>> bank." He
>>>>> went on to say, "I'm not so concerned about the return on my money
>>>>> as I am
>>>>> about the return of my money."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>>> Saroj:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to sealants, do not use 5200 like some boat builders. It is
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> sealant but it is permanent and prevents future repair,
>>>>>> painting, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recommend a sealant that says for under water use. 3M 4000 or
>>>>>> 4200 are
>>>>>> numbers I can think of quickly. Go to the 3M website and see
>>>>>> which one is
>>>>>> for underwater use. (I know the cap is not underwater, except at
>>>>>> times)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another popular product is Boat Life Sealant, not Boat Life
>>>>>> Caulk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to silicone products, make sure it says for underwater use.
>>>>>> Silicone
>>>>> II
>>>>>> is said to be the better formulation of silcone sealants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would not go to Lowes. Go to any dockside marine store or if
>>>>>> you have to
>>>>>> the high dollar 'West Marine'. It would be better to pay the few
>>>>>> extra
>>>>>> schekels at West to get a quality product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to screws and bolts, Stan uses a million bolts at the shop.
>>>>>> Maybe older
>>>>>> boats had a mix, but I would opt to go to thru bolts, all one
>>>>>> million of
>>>>>> them. Also, after you tighten all the first time, go around a
>>>>>> second time
>>>>>> and maybe a third. A small 1/4" rachet works for this job. If
>>>>>> you do not
>>>>>> have one, head for Sears and get a Craftsman set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is good to see your post. Are in in contact with any other
>>>>>> 'Tidewater'
>>>>>> Rhodies?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saroj Gilbert wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any chance I can ask a question about the Rhodes22? LOL...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my centerboard would not raise or lower so friend and I took the
>>>>>>> cap
>>>>>>> apart; found that the blocks had broken off the CB; scraped,
>>>>>>> sanded, and
>>>>>>> painted the inside of the cap, the well and the CB (all
>>>>>>> encrusted with
>>>>>>> barnacles). We have it put back together except for the cap
>>>>>>> which has the
>>>>>>> gasket which was already there... appears in pretty good
>>>>>>> shape. We
>>>>>>> modified some blocks which was challenging since the attachment
>>>>>>> area is so
>>>>>>> small. Also did some fiberglass repair on the CB and the keel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two questions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - most of the holes had screws but some had bolts... I assume
>>>>>>> that an
>>>>>>> earlier owner had stripped out the screw holes. Is it likely
>>>>>>> that reusing
>>>>>>> the screws will provide sufficient pressure to prevent leaks or
>>>>>>> should we
>>>>>>> go to the trouble of replacing all with bolts... I'd prefer not
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> there are so many, but I don't want leaks obviously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - what sealant should we use? I took off the old sealant which
>>>>>>> was a blue
>>>>>>> colored rubbery substance that came off pretty easily from both
>>>>>>> sides.
>>>>>>> Roger's instructions said to use silicone. Is there a
>>>>>>> particular type or
>>>>>>> any old stuff from Lowes? If we use silicon, do we need to let
>>>>>>> it cure a
>>>>>>> little before clamping down 100% to give it a chance to cure?
>>>>>>> (seems to me
>>>>>>> it requires air to start the curing process). Has anyone used
>>>>>>> RTV...
>>>>>>> overkill for this application?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have searched and searched for the tech info material that was
>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>> and organized years ago with no luck. Can someone give me a URL
>>>>>>> for it or
>>>>>>> does it no longer exist?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Saroj
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> go to
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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