[Rhodes22-list] Political question about Reply by Chris G
Tootle
ekroposki at charter.net
Mon Sep 1 18:45:39 EDT 2008
Chris said, "Wealth creation is a driving force from your point of view, it
trumps all. I disagree."
So you admit that you believe an individual's work product belongs to the
state?
Ed K
Greenville, SC, USA
"Marx's concept of work - In the future communist society everyone will be a
worker: 'with labor emancipated every man becomes a working man, and
productive labor ceases to be class attribute."
Chris Geankoplis wrote:
>
> Ed,
> No need to lecture. We have a fundalmental difference on a couple of
> issues. Wealth creation is a driving force from your point of view, it
> trumps all. I disagree. Don't assume because someone holds a different
> view they are ignorant and unread. No one has accused Brad of being
> ignorant or unread (least wise as I recall). The fundalmental difference
> is
> I shall never convince you of what I consider just and a priority, nor
> will
> you convince me, no matter how blustery and agressive your approach is.
> Is
> there some movement possible? Yes, but not on the basic principles that we
> disagree on.
>
> So when are you going sailing?
> Most respectfully Yours,
>
>
> Chris G
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tootle" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:50 AM
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Political Re ply to Captain Ed
>
>
>>
>>
>> Chris said, "So let’s focus on the actual issues … the growing gap
>> between
>> rich and poor." That line is a façade of Marxism. Who are these alleged
>> rich? An analysis of the richest 100 people in USA will show that 90 of
>> them made their money by themselves and did not inherit it. How did they
> do
>> that?
>>
>> The answer was that it was initiative and opportunity. Not all with
>> initiative make it, it takes luck, being in the right place at the right
>> time. So, you are jealous that you did not have the initiative and luck
> to
>> start Microsoft?
>>
>> Let us take the case of that liberal billionaire from your part of the
>> country. You know Bill. Started small and had the right concepts and
>> products just as micro computers became available. He was in right place
>> with good idea. Did he inherit the wealth of the company that he led?
>>
>> What happened during the inception and growth of Microsoft? He made lots
> of
>> money. But so did several dozen of those who started with him when it
>> was
> a
>> very small operation. And how about all those poor workers who have been
>> working for Microsoft for 30 years? Are those the poor you are talking
>> about? Are they the increasing gap, they sure did not make as much money
> as
>> Bill did. You are right about that.
>>
>> Now compare the city of workers who collect the garbage in every city of
>> USA. Are they the poor you are taking about? Do they have reasonable
>> housing? How many have a car? Compare them with Obama’s brother in
> Nairobi
>> whose home is a mud hut with thatched roof. Which poor are you fussing
>> about? Are you saying that you do not own an island in the south
>> Pacific?
>>
>> You really expect that by giving all sorts of benefits to all that you
> will
>> really make the standard of living higher for all? The facts show that
>> is
>> not what happens. Have you ever studied any economics and how to
> distinguish
>> feudalism, tribal societies, socialism, and capitalism? Which of those
>> economic systems created the most wealth and raised the overall standard
> of
>> living for the largest number? The truth is that it is not socialism,
>> progressivism nor communism.
>>
>> As a teacher, you have a duty to understand the truth. Ask Brad for the
>> titles of a couple of good books that explain what system of economics
>> America was founded on. Go back and read the Federalist Papers and some
>> biographies of those who wrote the U. S. Constitution. Understand and
>> appreciate what they gave us.
>>
>> Without an understanding of what we have and what it accomplished, all
>> the
>> calls for change may simply destroy a system that was instrumental in
> giving
>> mankind the greatest advancement in standard of living ever. Calling for
> a
>> Marxist system is like putting a knife in the heart of Bill Gates and
> others
>> like him.
>>
>> Ed K
>> Greenville, SC, USA
>> Addendum: "Facts are stubborn things. Facts are used to sort out the
> truth
>> from fiction, to rise above bias and prejudice to reach a just
> result.""Take
>> inspiration from those people who risked all they had for the nation we
> are
>> blessed to call home today." Jeffery O. Bramlett
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>> >
>> > Chris,
>> >
>> > The economy - suffering from the real estate and mortgage silliness
>> > but not a recession yet, exports saving the decline in GDP for now.
>> >
>> > War - Iraq winding down - the Iraqi's want us out (and we want out).
>> > NATO petering out in Afghanistan (NATO petering out in Georgia), UN
>> > non-existent, tough terrain, tough people, nuclear Pakistan. Tough
>> > situation 7 years later. Radical Muslims still looking for a way to
>> > kill us. The war goes on.
>> >
>> > Taxes - Tax revenue is up because of a cut in the capital gains tax
>> > and increased investment in the economy.
>> >
>> > Between what rich and what poor are we talking about. The World? The
>> > poor are gaining - did you watch the Olympics? US economy? We may be
>> > the only nation on the planet where the poor owns a color TV,
>> > air-conditioning, and two cars. And, they are fat.
>> >
>> > And how would you like to focus on these issues, especially the
>> > economic ones? Trot out a few more failed economic theories or follow
>> > China's path - ditch the Marxist bullshit and try a little old
>> > fashioned capitalism?
>> >
>> > Brad
>> >
>> > On 8/31/08, Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net> wrote:
>> >> Thanks Tootle,
>> >> We both agree that there are a lot of people who
> have
>> >> made mistakes and have gone on to lead better lives, so lets focus on
>> >> the
>> >> actual issues, the economy, the war, taxes, the growing gap between
> rich
>> >> and
>> >> poor. These are where we need to focus.
>> >>
>> >> Chris G
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Tootle" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>> >> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 4:18 PM
>> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Re ply to Captain Chris G.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Chris G said, "Boy I gotta agree, any of those cheating husbands
>> and
>> >> > philanderers should be barred from making speeches at the
> convention.
>> >> Of
>> >> > course that would include John McCain after what he did to his wife
>> >> and
>> >> two
>> >> > kids after he came back. Got a new undamaged model with lots of
> money,
>> >> > prenup or not. Does it matter? Careful there are lots of glass
>> >> houses.
>> >> > Should we bar those who have killed a person in a car accident that
>> >> they
>> >> > caused? Ok that keeps out Ted Kennedy, but also Laura Bush.
>> Should
>> >> we
>> >> bar
>> >> > someone who stole drugs (in one case from a non-profit set up to
> help
>> >> war
>> >> > victims), and forged
>> >> > prescriptions well I guess that would shut up Mrs. McCain and Rush
>> >> Limbaugh.
>> >> > Tootle, help me out, to be fair and balanced I need a drug thieving
>> >> democrat
>> >> > to balance this out. Oh I know Marion Berry should do."
>> >> >
>> >> > Responses as follows:
>> >> >
>> >> > As to John McCain - after how many years in a North Viet Nam
> prison? -
>> >> He
>> >> > had adjustment problems when he came back. How much time did you
>> >> spend in
>> >> > the Hanoi Hilton? He later realized he screwed up and admits it.
> Too
>> >> late,
>> >> > but after some time he came around and has since lead a better
>> life,
>> >> other
>> >> > wise he would not be where he is.
>> >> >
>> >> > As to Ted Kennedy, I have always believed that he was drunk.
> However,
>> >> the
>> >> > lady was in the back seat was in the same state. Alcohol
> consumption
>> >> is
>> >> not
>> >> > a legal excuse for killing another or is it Ben C?
>> >> >
>> >> > As to Laura Bush at 17, poor driving skills kill many teenagers.
>> Is
>> >> that
>> >> > not the reason that age group has the highest insurance rates? Are
>> >> you
>> >> > telling us that your judgment and driving skills have not changed
>> >> since
>> >> you
>> >> > were 17?
>> >> >
>> >> > As to drug addition and subsequently forging prescriptions, the
>> >> medication
>> >> > that Rush became addicted to was a problem that the drug company
>> did
>> >> not
>> >> > correctly monitor and once the problem was known, physicians failed
> to
>> >> > follow up for addition. Initially the drug was proscribed
> correctly,
>> >> but
>> >> > the prescribing doctor did not follow up making sure that no
> addition
>> >> > occurred.
>> >> >
>> >> > Once you are addicted, you the person is no longer in control.
>> Have
>> >> you
>> >> > never dealt with alcoholics? If not, never ever again, give a
>> >> recovered
>> >> > alcoholic 100% trust.
>> >> >
>> >> > There is a big problem in America with prescription drugs. Often
>> >> doctors
>> >> > are getting kickbacks from the drug companies and so are more
> willing
>> >> to
>> >> > prescribe feel good drugs when they should not. Yes this is partly
>> >> the
>> >> > patients fault for asking for such drugs, but again, once there is
>> >> addition.
>> >> >
>> >> > The points that you raised are fair to raise and be addressed but
> they
>> >> are
>> >> > distinguishable from a lawyer, who as part of bar qualifying has
>> >> specific
>> >> > ethics training from committing perjury. I have said that his
>> >> philandering
>> >> > is one thing, but his committing perjury is a whole different
> matter.
>> >> And
>> >> > as Ben C said he was suspended for five years for doing it. The
>> >> Arkansas
>> >> > Bar said even a former President needed his ____ slapped for doing
> it.
>> >> >
>> >> > So I have partially addressed your comments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ed K
>> >> > Greenville, SC, USA
>> >> > attachment:
>> >> >
>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p19247108/Chris%2BG%2527s%2BReasoning.jpg
>> >> > Chris+G%27s+Reasoning.jpg
>> >> > --
>> >> > View this message in context:
>> >>
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>> >> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >> >
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