[Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the "evolutionists" are going to save us from the Republicans

[Ben Cittadino]

A few thoughts:

1. Belief in God and acceptance of evolution are not inconsistant.  One can
simply take as a matter of Faith that the Creator constructed the universe
to operate in the way Darwin, Einstein, and/or other scientists have
observed, descibed and studied.

2. I've got no problem with Creationism being taught in schools as long as
it's in a Comparative Religions, or Philosophy course. 

3. Wait 'til somebody comes up with a video of Ms. Palin speaking in
tongues.  It will be very entertaining to me, and I am afraid not fatal to
her campaign.

Steven Alm wrote:
> 
> Todd,
> 
> I'm an atheist and I think Palin's a religious kook.  And you're right, I
> won't vote for a religious kook.  I haven't studied Darwin very much (and
> I
> applaud your research and quotes) but I don't think that's the only rebuke
> to creationism.  Since most of the species of plant and animal life on
> this
> earth are in fact extinct, I'd call that "unintelligent design."
> 
> You said there are only two possibilities as to how life started.  Are you
> sure?  How do you know this?  What I know is that all religions serve in
> answering three questions:  Where did we come from, how do we live and
> what
> happens when we die?  Myself, I've answered those questions to my own
> satisfaction and I don't need the church to tell me anything.
> 
> Slim
> 
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Slim, Wow!  are you are going to vote for Obama because he is a Marxist
>> or not vote for McCain just because Palin is a religious extremist? :^D
>> Glad you mentioned carbon dating.  Carbon has been proven by many
>> scientists to be a wholly inaccurate method of dating.  I am far from
>> being a scientist...or a religious kook thinking the earth is only a
>> couple of thousand of years old, but there is just as much scientific
>> information out there to; while not proving creation is the truth, surely
>> proves evolution is improbable if not impossible.  You are/were an
>> educator and were taught evolution from a text book, like we all were.
>> Just because you read something in a text book does not make it truth.
>> http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/ Maybe we could all stomach
>> creationism if we called it a theory too. After all that is what
>> evolution is...just an unproven theory. There are equally as many
>> scientists out there who believe they have proven evolution is myth. It
>> was not Darwin's brainstorm anyway.  He thought he could further explain
>> a centuries old belief; that life arose from non life and everything
>> sprang from a common ancestor. Modern scientists say it was that first
>> amino acid or protein chain in the pool of "primordial ooze."  I like how
>> one Nobel prize winner (Biology 1967?) put it:
>>
>> "There are only two possibilities as to how life arose; one is
>> spontaneous generation arising to evolution, the other is a supernatural
>> creative act of God, there is no third possibility. Spontaneous
>> generation that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically
>> disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others. That leaves us with
>> only one possible conclusion, that life arose as a creative act of God. I
>> will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in
>> God, therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically
>> impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution."
>>
>> (Dr. George Wald, evolutionist, Professor Emeritus of Biology at the
>> University at Harvard, Nobel Prize winner in Biology.)
>>
>> But the most interesting fact is that even Darwin himself realized
>> evolution was not workable.
>>
>> "To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for
>> adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different
>> amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic
>> aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely
>> confess, absurd in the highest degree possible." (Charles Darwin, "The
>> origin of species by means of natural selection")
>>
>> "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could
>> not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight
>> modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."  (Charles Darwin,
>> "The Origin of Species")
>>
>> "Often a cold shudder has run through me, and I have asked myself whether
>> I may have not devoted myself to a fantasy."  (Charles Darwin, Life and
>> Letters, 1887, Vol. 2, p. 229)
>>
>> I could post a few hundred quotes from noted doctors and scientists to
>> try to "prove" evolution wrong or creation right. I could "do my
>> homework" as we say here on the list and cite actual findings, but that
>> is not necessary. Because to dismiss the possibility of God or some other
>> Intelligent Designer makes it easier to accept our notions that it is ok
>> to be a homosexual (and not allow me a choice when the schools teach this
>> gargage to my kids while denying the right to learn about the theory of
>> creation along with evolution) or that it should be a crime to kill a
>> tree, but ok to kill an unborn baby. Not to say everyone believing in
>> evolution is an athiest (or a Democrat), but you have made me see this as
>> a hinge factor in how I will vote....real issues aside.
>>
>> Todd T
>>
>> Besides, it is not very PC to say we evolved (were "selected") from apes.
>> We don't want any of the apes that were not selected to be made to feel
>> inferior.
>>
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steven Alm"
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Praise Jesus, the Republicans are going to
>> save us from the Republicans
>> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:11:17 -0500
>>
>>
>> "Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs."
>>
>> Yes, I require that the candidates be sane, critical thinkers. Palin is
>> obviously not. I wouldn't say that if she were a Catholic or a Lutheran
>> but
>> here's a woman who wants to stare down the whole scientific community and
>> deny things like carbon 14 dating and declare that the heavens and earth
>> are
>> only a few thousand years old. You didn't just call ME an extremist, did
>> you?
>>
>> Brad, you left out the part of Kroon saying that his parishioners should
>> pray for the completion of the pipeline because at the end of the world,
>> folks will flock to Alaska as their final refuge.
>>
>> I can't believe that was you quoting all that God stuff.
>>
>> Slim
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Steven Alm wrote:
>>
>> > "She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>> > personal beliefs from her duties."
>> >
>> > Wouldn't it be better if she didn't have to?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Herb Parsons wrote:
>> >
>> >> Ahh, so the "tolerant" lefty has a litmus test for religious beliefs.
>> >> She's already demonstrated that she is fully capable of separating her
>> >> personal beliefs from her duties. She vetoed a bill that would have
>> >> denied benefits to gay couples.
>> >>
>> >> But, you extremists keep it up, I'm sure you'll find (or make up)
>> >> SOMETHING on her.
>> >>
>> >> Steven Alm wrote:
>> >> > She's a creationist. Her Assembly of God stuff is a deal breaker for
>> >> me.
>> >> > Religious extremism cannot be tolerated.
>> >> >
>> >> > The most important legacy the president leaves is the appointment of
>> the
>> >> > supreme court.
>> >> > The next pres might appoint as many as three. If Sarabaracuda has
>> her
>> >> way,
>> >> > say goodbye to Roe V. Wade and hello to back-ally coat hanger
>> >> abortions.
>> >> >
>> >> > Slim
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Herb Parsons
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> I think it's funny that the candidate that was considered as a
>> running
>> >> >> mate for the Democratic choice a few years back, is now being
>> touted as
>> >> >> "more of the same". Keep trying though, you guys may find something
>> >> that
>> >> >> works.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What exactly makes Palin a "religious kook", that fact that's she
>> >> >> religious? I think your colors are beginning to show.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> petelargo wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Ben, thanks for your post. As you may have noticed, there is no
>> >> dialogue
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> with
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> the right-wing extremists. You are wrong, end of discussion and
>> your
>> >> an
>> >> >>> idiot to boot.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> When John McCain won the nomination, Bush disappears overseas. At
>> the
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> RNC,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> no Bush, no Cheney (and no mention of them). They know it's a
>> failed
>> >> >>> administration. Where were the solutions. Once again, they are
>> trying
>> >> to
>> >> >>> frame the campaign as an ideology argument rather than an issues
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> discussion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Today on Face the Nation, "Sis Cum Ba and WHA-LAA", McCain is now
>> the
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> change
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> candidate and stated that he will end the incredible corruption in
>> >> >>> Washington and the failed policies. John McCain has re-defined a
>> whole
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> new
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> level of flip-flopping on over two dozen key issues within the
>> last
>> >> eight
>> >> >>> years including his own authored bill that he was for and now
>> against.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I couldn't give a poop about the experience argument of Palin vs
>> >> Obama.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> It's
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> a waste of time. The entire Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice-Rove, etc
>> >> >>> administration could be argued to be the most experienced
>> >> administration
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> in
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> the history of the White House. A huge amount of prior "executive
>> >> >>> experience". For the first time in recent politics the Republicans
>> >> had
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> the
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> power in the white house, judicial, house and senate. How was it
>> for
>> >> you?
>> >> >>> It's one thing to drive a tractor trailer up our butts, but when
>> they
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> start
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> blowing on the horn while there're doing it, it's really gone too
>> far.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> A big thank you for the memories: the debt, the dead, the twisting
>> >> >>> intelligence to "sell" us a war on a country that did not attack
>> us,
>> >> the
>> >> >>> good ol boy ineffectual cronyism, and finally the shredding of the
>> >> >>> constitution. With Palin we now we get to have another religious
>> kook
>> >> to
>> >> >>> satisfy the so-called conservative extremist religious right to
>> >> 'bridge'
>> >> >>> them into this administration and get money.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Spending 5-10 billion dollars a month on Iraq and kissing chinese
>> ass
>> >> >>> (borrowing the money) of the most Marxist suppressive government
>> on
>> >> the
>> >> >>> planet at this time is a conservative value?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Finally, the biggest hypocrisy of all . That these extremists
>> actually
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> think
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> that they and the republicans are the vanguards of conservatism?
>> The
>> >> two
>> >> >>> top key pillars of conservatism are less government and government
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> intrusion
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> and fiscal responsibility. The only administration that walked
>> that
>> >> talk
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> in
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> 50 years was a Democrat that left Bush a 500 billion dollar
>> surplus.
>> >> He
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> blew
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> threw that in one year and it was prior to 9-11. And there is no
>> >> greater
>> >> >>> government intrusion that being told what you can or cannot do
>> with or
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> put
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> into your body. Palin wants privacy for her family decisions, but
>> she
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> wants
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> to legislate publicly what you should do with yours. No thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Ben Cittadino-2 wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> My Dear Culture Warriors;
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So....are we having fun yet?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> First, I'd like to thank Richard and Slim for stepping up to join
>> the
>> >> >>>> "Assault on the Citadel".
>> >> >>>> The bullets don't sting as much when the adversary's fire is
>> spread
>> >> out
>> >> >>>> among more than one target.
>> >> >>>> In the words first uttered by Gen. "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell,
>> >> "illegitimi
>> >> >>>> non carborundum".
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> As for Tootle, Brad, and Herb, you guys crack me up. I posted
>> about
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> Obama
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> only because I saw Tootle's post that
>> >> >>>> suggested anybody supporting Obama was either a marxist, or a
>> farm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> animal.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> What did he expect when he said that?
>> >> >>>> Herb, where was your outrage that Tootle would refer to some of
>> his
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> fellow
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> "Rhodies" in such derogatry terms? Supporting Obama or McCain
>> >> >>>> may turn out to be right or wrong, but if we debate policy and
>> don't
>> >> >>>> engage in mere name-calling this "sailor's bar" could be an
>> >> interesting
>> >> >>>> place.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Richard's "geezer" remarks are defensible on several grounds.
>> First,
>> >> he
>> >> >>>> was provoked. Second, he was defending ME.
>> >> >>>> Third, it was funny. Calling someone a "marxist" as Tootle did is
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> several
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> magnitudes worse than gentle kidding of the
>> >> >>>> "old fart" kind. Surely you see the difference.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> The positions I tried to lay out as reasons some people support
>> Obama
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> were
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> intended as an outline of ideology (as Slim noted),
>> >> >>>> not an argument supporting any position. For example, Herb, you
>> are
>> >> >>>> pro-life and will probably vote for McCain/Palin in part for that
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >> reason.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> I am pro-choice, pro-embryonic stem cell research and so I will
>> >> support
>> >> >>>> Obama/Biden in part for that reason. It is not hyperbole to point
>> >> out
>> >> >>>> the policy differences that explain my choice. What I know for
>> sure
>> >> is
>> >> >>>> that marxism and "sheepiness" have nothing to do with it. I have
>> >> thought
>> >> >>>> about all of my positions on the issues I mentioned and am
>> completely
>> >> >>>> prepared to explain and justify them. In Brad's oft' repeated
>> mantra
>> >> I
>> >> >>>> know I have "done my homework".
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Enough for today. The games will be on soon.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Cheers!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay, Highlands, NJ
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
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>> >> to
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>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
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>> >> >>
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