[Rhodes22-list] Rik S., a question of when life begins and Ben C.'s comment thereon

[Herb Parsons]

You do understand that I haven't "decided" the issue in order to judge.

A civilization decides to "dehumanize" members of one race. Members of 
that civilization eventually come to their senses and decide to change 
it. That's not judgment, that's trying to make a change. Now, if you 
want me today to condemn those who practiced what was law at the time, 
THAT would be judgment. I have no need, or desire, to judge them.

Today, we as a civilization are allowing the massacre of millions of 
unborn babies, primarily in the name of convenience for the mother. I 
don't care to retroactive punish, or even publicly humiliate, those 
individuals; however, I have no problem at all saying I believe that the 
practice is wrong, and more importantly, I believe our nation's flip 
attitude concerning the issue is wrong. Nor do I believe I'm doing 
anything wrong in trying to change our "corporate" tolerance of the 
practice. I'll continue to try to bring about that change for as long as 
I'm around.


Rik Sandberg wrote:
> Ed,
>
>   
>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>> but now a factual thing.  
>>   
>>     
> What an unborn embryo/fetus looks like in a picture has virtually 
> nothing to do with this issue. So, your facts are actually, just your 
> opinion. It has been known for a long time, long before before pictures 
> were possible, that, that clump of cells in a mothers womb was 
> eventually going to become a baby.
>
> As I have said previously, I will have to answer to my god when all is 
> said and done as will everyone else, whether they know or believe they 
> have a god or not. That may be a fact or not, but no one will know that 
> absolutely until it's too late for them to return to explain it to the 
> rest of us. 'Til then I will continue to try my best to judge not, lest 
> I be judged.
>
> Rik
>
> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>
>
>
> Tootle wrote:
>   
>> RiK,
>>
>> When Roe v Wade was decided there was not accurate information available to
>> answer the question with any certainty.
>>
>> However, science and medical tools have advanced.  Just look at Ultrasound
>> pictures and ecocardiograms available today.  
>>
>> Today nobody is willing to look at current medical information and say the
>> old time frame is not true, not accurate in light of modern information.
>>
>> I originally thought that your's and Ben's arguement were acceptable.  Ben
>> said, "It's a judgment call. It seems reasonable enough to me."
>>
>> Having worked in medical imaging, I can say with certainty that the old time
>> line is wrong.  It may be the law, but the law is wrong because we now have
>> pictures and other data to say it is wrong.  It is not a religious thing,
>> but now a factual thing.  
>>
>> Where is Alice on this subject.  Still trying to start her Yamaha?
>>
>> Your opinion just walks away from killing.  When you are in a nursing home
>> and too feeble to stop them, will it be just as acceptable for them to put a
>> blanket over your head and do a Dr. Kevorkian?
>>
>> Anyway, I have had to change my opinion because the facts and scientific
>> information are now available.
>>
>> Ed K
>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Rik,
>>>
>>> I'm with you.  I only get to play God a few times a month when I'm
>>> giving a checkride and even then there's "higher powers" that will
>>> question my decisions.  Here's a couple of neat videos of real people.
>>>
>>> http://kdka.com/local/Palin.Down.Syndrome.2.809737.html
>>>
>>> http://www.wpxi.com/video/17384228/index.html
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Rik Sandberg <sanderico1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Ed,
>>>>
>>>> Not sure why you'd be asking me this question. I have already stated
>>>> that I am not in favor of abortion, but I do mind my own business. Also,
>>>> I am surely no expert on either the medical or scientific aspects of
>>>> pregnancy/child bearing so this question, as others have said, is
>>>> probably above my pay grade.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't like to see people performing the scenario, partial birth
>>>> abortion I believe it is called, that Todd was talking about. I'm pretty
>>>> sure that a fetus is truly a person by then.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I do know is, nobody is going to have to answer for my sins
>>>> but me. As such, since I am not without sin, I have no business casting
>>>> stones.
>>>>
>>>> Rik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ayn Rand was a prophet - - it isn't my fault
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tootle wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Rik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Using modern science and modern medical and scientific tools, when
>>>>> exactly
>>>>> does life begin?  Disregard court opinions, which are just opinions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed K
>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>> addendum, 'Making right choices in gray areas is difficult.  To be aware
>>>>> of
>>>>> the dilemma is not enough.   There needs to be a moral sensitivity which
>>>>> remembers to ask the right questions at the right time.  To know what is
>>>>> good is not enough?  There is a difference between waking up and getting
>>>>> up.
>>>>> There must be specific decision for the right.  To be sensitive and
>>>>> aware is
>>>>> good.  To make proper decisions is better.'  Paraphrase of Bryan
>>>>> Crenshaw
>>>>>
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
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>>>>       
>>>>         
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>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
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