[Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem

[Bill Effros]

Paul,

I'm in Greenwich.  I often sail over to your harbor, and I sometimes get 
trapped inside.  It's a time of day issue.  Easy for me to get in, 
sometimes hard to get out.  I actually have motored out on occasion when 
I could see I would never make it back to Greenwich on time.  Generally 
I can sail back across, but sometimes everything gets calm and I have to 
do a lot of motoring.

I used to do it on a Sunfish.  Power boaters towed me back to Greenwich 
innumerable times.  Friends with Hobies get becalmed out there, too, and 
I haul them back home.

I don't think you're looking at a pointing issue -- that's light air.  
Do you have a 175?

Bill Effros



Paul Krawitz wrote:
> Thanks for your good advice, Bill.
> But really, we nor anyone else is ever in danger. The "harbor" is shown at
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=11724&ie=UTF8&ll=40.882242,-73.475103&spn=0.055743,0.06815&t=h&z=14&iwloc=addr
>
>
> There are a couple mooring fields near the southern aspect, but otherwise
> it's open. In the wider part, it's an 8-15 minute tack across.
>
> During the early summer, the southerly breezes would take us out in 25
> minutes to the top of the satellite image. But beating back was frequently
> more than 2 hours. Other than the mooring fields, the harbor is often empty
> except for a couple clammers.
>
> We never play dodge and weave in the mooring field, and if the winds allow
> us to make a dock landing, we always make sure that we have an escape route.
>
> The question I originally asked wasn't addressing whether we're being
> responsible on the water. Rather, with a southerly wind, it would be much
> more pleasant to make it back in 4-5 tacks rather than 10-15.
>
> But in order to do that the boat has to be able to point higher than I get
> get it to go.
>
> Of course, watching those sleek catamarans make it back in 2-3 tacks is hard
> to swallow.
>
> Paul K
> "Clarity"
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:04 PM, <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>
>   
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Pointing Problem (Bill Effros)
>>   2. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Bill Effros)
>>   3.  Pointing Problem (Paul Krawitz)
>>   4. Re: [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art pretend not to
>>      read] (Herb Parsons)
>>   5. Re: Pointing Problem (Herb Parsons)
>>   6. Re: anchoring (Herb Parsons)
>>   7. Re: Brad, now my turn: (Brad Haslett)
>>   8. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Peter Thorn)
>>   9. Re: Community Organization (Brad Haslett)
>>  10. Re: Community Organization (Herb Parsons)
>>  11. Re: For Ed, from Maine - political (Ben Cittadino)
>>  12. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Bill Effros)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:45:55 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
>> Paul,
>>
>> I was taught it is irresponsible to tack back and forth in harbors.  I see
>> people doing it in my harbor, and smashing into moored boats, or cutting in
>> front of other boats that clearly have the right of way.  A couple of people
>> a year get killed around here sailing when they should be motoring.
>>
>> When there is no traffic I sometimes practice, just to make sure I can sail
>> up to my mooring single handed, or sail to the dock, get off my boat and tie
>> it up single handed.
>> I've got a pretty good idea of how high  I can point, and how long it will
>> take me to get from where I am to where I want to be.  I rarely use more
>> than 10 gallons of gas a year, and I go out 50 to 75 times.  I always motor
>> out of the harbor to make sure all systems are working properly, and usually
>> motor back into my mooring.  There is very little margin for error at low
>> tide where I am moored.
>>
>> I sail into trouble 1 or 2 times a year.  I quickly deploy an anchor when I
>> get into trouble, to give me the time to figure out what to do next.  I try
>> not to sail out of trouble unless I'm sure it is the best course of action.
>>
>> I use a GPS to calculate how long it will take me to get back to my
>> mooring, and a cell phone to advise my wife.  These tools have proved quite
>> valuable.  In my mind I always want to think I can point higher than I can
>> point, or that the wind will remain steady in the exact direction I need it
>> to go.
>>
>> I doubt you will ever be able to point high enough to overcome errors made
>> at the start of your sail regarding distance and bearing from home.  I am
>> very careful about this when I sail if I have to get back by a certain hour.
>>
>> Bill Effros
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Krawitz wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> To Bill Effros,
>>> Yes, I have an engine...
>>>
>>> But I tend to stand on circumstance and am quite stubborn about beating
>>> back
>>> unless the setting sun beats me home.
>>>
>>> Only then will I give in and turn on the engine.
>>>
>>> It's immature, I admit.
>>>
>>> Paul K
>>> "Clarity"
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:48:24 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>> Peter,
>>
>> Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
>>
>> BE
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs" then
>>> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
>>> between
>>> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
>>>
>>> PT
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>
>>> Lee,
>>>
>>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>>>
>>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned by
>>> the deviation.
>>>
>>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass is
>>> off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't have the
>>> slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind is coming
>>> from.
>>>
>>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
>>> less time adjusting your compass.
>>>
>>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your
>>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to you.
>>>  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not sure the
>>> compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>>>
>>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
>>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk to
>>> his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he wouldn't have
>>> totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction, but he was a few
>>> degrees off course.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>>>
>>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
>>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
>>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
>>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16,
>>>> 2008 10:42 AM
>>>> To: R22 List
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>>
>>>> Todd,
>>>>
>>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>>>
>>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>>>
>>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>>>
>>>> These are compass directions.
>>>>
>>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>>>
>>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>>>
>>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
>>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>>>
>>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>>>
>>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
>>>>
>>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>>>
>>>> Homework Assignment:
>>>>
>>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
>>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>>>
>>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>>>
>>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>>>
>>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
>>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
>>>>
>>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>>>
>>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>>>
>>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>>>> degree differences.
>>>>
>>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
>>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>
>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>  From: "Bill Effros"
>>>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>  Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Elle,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>>>>  deal
>>>>>  with similar problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>>>>  chain.
>>>>>
>>>>>  You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  a
>>>>>  pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>>>>  anchor
>>>>>  locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>>>>  from
>>>>>  it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>>>>  it
>>>>>  on the other.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>>>>  drop
>>>>>  a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  hits the bottom.
>>>>>
>>>>>  If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>>>>  rope
>>>>>  on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>>>  deploying
>>>>>  the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>>>>  surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>>>>  Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>>>>  boat,
>>>>>  and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>>>>  should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>>>>  above it.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>>>>  the
>>>>>  anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> anchor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  I
>>>>>  can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>>>>  surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>>>>  it.
>>>>>
>>>>>  It's a lot like fishing.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>>>
>>>>>  If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>>>  experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>>>>  the
>>>>>  sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>>>>  rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>>>>  order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>>>>  withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>>>>  the
>>>>>  way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>>>>  before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>>>>  permanently set.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>>>>  never
>>>>>  has.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>>>  anchor
>>>>>  into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>>>>  mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>>>>  use
>>>>>  a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>>>>  other
>>>>>  boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>>>>  easily
>>>>>  withstand the elements.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  elle wrote:
>>>>>  > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>>>  > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>>>>  > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>>>  > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>>>  > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Opinion?
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > Thanks, elle
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>>>>  sails.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >> From: Bill Effros
>>>>>  >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>  >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>  >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>>>  >> Peter,
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>>>  >> the size of the anchor?
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>>>  >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>>>>  >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>>>  >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>>>  >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>>>  >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>>>  >> dislodge until you get
>>>>>  >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> boat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  to
>>>>>  >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>>>  >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>>>  (There are
>>>>>  >> hundreds.)
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>>>  >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>>>>  from
>>>>>  >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>>>>  >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>>>  >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>>>>  on the
>>>>>  >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>>>>  just
>>>>>  >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>>>>  stress.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>>>  >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>>>>  so I could
>>>>>  >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>>>>  sit on
>>>>>  >> the single mushroom.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>>>  >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>>>>  creates
>>>>>  >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>>>>  on the
>>>>>  >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>>>>  >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>>>>  not had
>>>>>  >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>>>>  >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>>>>  >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>>>  >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> Bill Effros
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> elle,
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> is the best hurricane
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> boats must leave their
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> engineering design at
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> our club.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> shift greatly during the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>>>  >> Some anchors are very
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> at holding in mud,
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>>>  >> But, if broken loose
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> Fortress will more
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> anchoring technique is
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>>>  >> Other experienced storm
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> with our special
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> of the boat, the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> rode and chain.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> attach a Fortress or
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> quickly reset if the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> for the Fortress to
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> large), but I think the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> ground tackle.
>>>>>  >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> I just hauled her
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> But it think it's
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> wind gods send us.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> PT
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>  >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>  >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> Of elle
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>>>  >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>  >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> her head, we decided to
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> the creek...which is a
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> comes with the boat &
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> mechanism is in the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> have massive chafing if
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> then not be
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> detritus..mainly
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> would not set w/all the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> as the CQR (my first
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> piling and the other
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> elle
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> can adjust our sails.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> (Lady in Red)
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> wrote:
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>  >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>>>  >>>> Paul,
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> times in
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>>>  >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>>>> 1565
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> 18
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> Rubbermaid
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> although I
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>>>>  locker
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> for my bow
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> and pass
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> Mike
>>>>>  >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>>>  >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>>>  >>>> Sent:
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> Sunday,
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>>>  >>>> impractical way to store
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> hands to
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> get in there.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> and
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> attaching it to the
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> when I
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> need to.
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> suggestion.
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>> Paul K
>>>>>  >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> using the
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> mailing list go to
>>>>>  >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>  >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>  >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >> the mailing
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>  >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>  >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>  >> mailing list go to
>>>>>  >>
>>>>>  >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>  >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >
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>>>>>  > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
>>>> is
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>>> for the sole use of the intended
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>>>> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any
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>>>>         
>>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
>>>
>>>       
>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply
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>>> e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
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>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
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>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Paul Krawitz" <krawitzmail-rhodes22 at yahoo.com>
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:50:21 -0400
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
>> Lee,
>> The only way I can move when less than 45 degrees off the wind is by
>> feathering (intermittently coming further upwind than close-hauled) while
>> sailing in the groove, and only with Force 3+ winds.
>>
>> Even with everything snugged tight and the jib in the same position as
>> yours, I'm not nearly as high as I wish.
>>
>> And I never can hold my tack points 90 degrees off my current course. I
>> always have to fall off.
>>
>> Paul K
>> "Clarity"
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:57:56 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art
>> pretend not to read]
>> You know, if I were running for President of the USA, and I KNEW deep in my
>> heart (just as he should have known) that most of the voters on both sides
>> of the isle were facing voting for someone other than their real choice,
>> when I started looking around, the question I'd ask myself is:
>>
>> Would people rather have this person than me for President.
>>
>> If he asked that, it would explain why he made a good choice.
>>
>> I think if you talked to most Republicans, they'll tell you they'd rather
>> have Palin at the top of the ticket.
>>
>>
>> JbTek wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Ed said, "McCain's choice of running mate is the first light that
>>> Americans
>>> have seen
>>> in solving this problem.
>>> McCain's decision is the first good grasp toward good judgement."
>>>
>>> Whilst it was a good choice,
>>> I think it was more of a ...."what do I have to lose" choice.
>>> He was most likely going to lose anyway so why not throw in a wild card.
>>> The stratigest that recomended her will probably get a cabinet post.
>>> Politics will never change.
>>> Jb
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tootle" <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:57 AM
>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art pretend
>>> not to read]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Jay said, "Obama blew his change platform with a Joe Biden pick. If he
>>>> was
>>>> going to do that he should have picked Hillary...that was stupid."
>>>>
>>>> Whilst all of us make mistakes, including Presidential candidates, making
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> a
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> blunder of that caliber is demonstrative of other possible appointments
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> and
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> decisions.  Whereas the old codger from Arizona demonstrated a style of
>>>> judgment that many Americans are looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Reagan said that the problem is government.  Actually one problem is
>>>> inbreeding or inside the beltway groupies.  While some inside experience
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> helpful and appropriate, too much yields the economic results we see
>>>> going
>>>> on, on Wall Street.  Insider control of destiny leads to not seeing the
>>>> obvious and not seeing the truth.
>>>>
>>>> Obama's approach is just a twist of disproven Marxist and Keynesian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> economic
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> policies.  While they criticize supply side economics they miss an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> important
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> aspect.  The fundamental issue that they miss is that they, be they
>>>> Presidential candidates, Senators, Congressmen, or liberal news
>>>> commentators, they are not by their position smarter or more
>>>> knowledgeable
>>>> of things than others.  Others, means ordinary Americans like those on
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> this
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> forum.  Sometimes those others are smarter, or can see the situation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> better.
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Bill Buckley said, "I'd rather entrust the government of the United
>>>> States
>>>> to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> faculty of Harvard University. William F. Buckley (1925 -2008).  What he
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> was
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> saying is that Americans collectively are not stupid.  However,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> individually
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> politicians can do stupid things.
>>>>
>>>> Liberalism or any form of Marxism puts too much power in stupid mistake
>>>> making politicians.  Those who accept creeping socialism are those
>>>> putting
>>>> the power in those who lack vision or just the ability to see truth.
>>>>
>>>> Yes there is a need for a Sheriff, but the Sheriff must be accountable
>>>> and
>>>> not self serving.  The Washington politicians, whether Bush, Reid, Pelosi
>>>> and all the rest have neither the desire for truth and honesty, nor the
>>>> capacity to put those who do in the right jobs.
>>>>
>>>> McCain's choice of running mate is the first light that Americans have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> seen
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> in solving this problem.
>>>>
>>>> McCain's decision is the first good grasp toward good judgement.
>>>>
>>>> Ed K
>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> http://www.nabble.com/-Political--Jay-Said--Big-Al-delete%2C-Art-pretend-not-to-read--tp19509500p19509500.html
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:15 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
>> My kind of sailor!
>>
>> Paul Krawitz wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> To Bill Effros,
>>> Yes, I have an engine...
>>>
>>> But I tend to stand on circumstance and am quite stubborn about beating
>>> back
>>> unless the setting sun beats me home.
>>>
>>> Only then will I give in and turn on the engine.
>>>
>>> It's immature, I admit.
>>>
>>> Paul K
>>> "Clarity"
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:12:32 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>> Sigh.... You can be so frustrating. There is so much I agree with you on,
>> but also so much I disagree. On the up side, isn't it fun when life's a
>> smorgasborg, and you get to take what you like about anything, and ignore
>> the rest.
>>
>> I agree. Most people buy too much anchor, and then don't use it because
>> they don't know how because it's too much trouble.
>>
>> Have I ever mentioned my first year owning a sailboat?
>>
>> I never took down my 150 Genoa, except to stow it when I slipped the boat.
>> If 30 mph winds blew across the lake, I let my O'Day 25 heel over to 30-35
>> degrees, hand on to the rudder, and yell with delight (my wife and grown
>> kids usually weren't quite a delighted).
>>
>> Then one day, when the winds were blowing 30 gusting to 40, I noticed that
>> the stitching was coming loose on the 150. I told my wife we had "that
>> smaller sail", we could use it.
>>
>> The boat sailed flatter. Not too flat (my boat sails best at about
>> 15degrees), and still actually overpowered, but no more 35-40 degree heel.
>> No more leaning my full weight into the rudder to hold a straight line.
>>
>> And then I noticed something really interesting. I was going faster!
>>
>> In the years since, I've learned to reef the main, roll the fuler (on other
>> people's boats, I still haven't installed mine), and all the other good
>> things that will make a boat sail better.
>>
>> I look at anchoring sort of like that. Some folks will do it wrong, and
>> some won't bother, until they some how learn to get it closer to right. Then
>> the pieces will start to fit for them.
>>
>> I got a kick out of being on a friend's boat. He's a racer (I race, but
>> only as crew, I help other people tear up their boats and save mine for the
>> fun stuff). One day when our club was doing a social event, he couldn't
>> anchor his boat. He tried about 5 times, and was about to give up (I think
>> his wife was about to mutiny, more than him giving up), and I offered to do
>> it. A few minutes later we were anchored well, and grilling burgers while
>> the kids swam.
>>
>> He told me he never sees me anchor, when had I learned to do that. I told
>> him I'd go to different parts of the lake about once a month and just anchor
>> 20 or 30 times. The full drill, lowering, setting, pulling, flaking, repeat.
>>
>> He said he'd have to try that sometime. I think he still gets other folks
>> to anchor for him :).
>>
>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Herb,
>>>
>>> Catenary curve is fascinating and real -- extremely important for towing
>>> and holding up suspension bridges.  Anything where the object on the end of
>>> the line is subject to movement.  But that's not the case with anchoring,
>>> where the object at the end of the line is stationary, and you are trying to
>>> keep yourself from moving as well.
>>>
>>> When anchoring, the principle of the catenary curve works against you.
>>>  You don't need to create slack in the rode to cushion the load if you use
>>> rope.  Simply use rope with stretch and you can forget snubbers and overly
>>> taut line.
>>>
>>> The load on the line is truly minuscule, almost all the time.  (If the
>>> load were more than a few pounds, you would not be able to pull it in by
>>> hand.)
>>>
>>> I remind you of the worlds oldest shoe store joke:
>>>
>>> A woman comes into a shoe store and says:
>>>
>>> "5 is my size, but 6 feels so good I buy a 7."
>>>
>>> I believe the same applies to anchors.  Might as well buy more anchor than
>>> you need...just in case.  Soon enough you never use the over sized anchor
>>> because it is such a pain, and when you might really need it, you can't
>>> trust it because you never deployed it frequently enough to have confidence
>>> in your ability to do so in an emergency.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> It was about 3 years ago. Catenary curve affects not only anchoring, but
>>>> towing as well. They touched on both, but interestingly enough, towing is
>>>> where they talked about it the most. Here's an interesting perspective on
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> I've towed some big boats (not ships, but 40'+ boats) after taking the
>>>> class, and remembered what I had learned. In a good tow, the hawser seldom
>>>> goes taught, or straight. The weight of the line itself will pull it down
>>>> causing the curve.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>
>>>>> How long ago did you take the class?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look at older West Marine catalogs they had diagrams of anchor
>>>>> rode showing "catenary curves" in "taut" anchor rode explaining that the
>>>>> weight of the chain pulled the anchor parallel to the bottom.  Then, one
>>>>> year, they explained that their own diagrams were nonsense, and that the
>>>>> anchors were designed to be pulled at a 45 degree angle to the bottom, and
>>>>> that the notion of "scope" had no validity if the chain could change the
>>>>> angle of pull.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just looked again.  The catenary curve diagrams and explanation are
>>>>> gone.  But the chain lying on the bottom diagram is back, along with the
>>>>> straight 45 degree angle of scope.
>>>>>
>>>>> The recommendation has changed from a flat 6 feet of chain, to 1 foot
>>>>> per waterline foot, to the current recommendation of 65 feet of chain tied
>>>>> to 200 feet of  rope.
>>>>> The explanation varies from "bottom abrasion" to "Shorter scope."
>>>>>
>>>>> BUBBA MEISAS! (As Stan's Grandmother would say.)
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no bottom abrasion if your rode floats. -- It never hits the
>>>>> bottom.  It never gets dirty except for picking up seaweed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scope is scope.  The angle is the same whether it is chain or rope.
>>>>> Dumping 65 feet of chain on a bottom just 8 feet below; never setting
>>>>> your anchor, and then wandering around within a 150 foot circle unable to
>>>>> determine if your anchor is set or dragging, makes no sense at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't have a windlass you don't use the anchor because it's too
>>>>> difficult to retrieve and never reliably sets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Get a $100 2 1/2 lb. guardian.  Try it on an all rope rode.  Deploy it;
>>>>> retrieve it; learn to flake the rode; store the whole shooting match under
>>>>> the cockpit seat.  Then ask the CG guys to explain to you, again, why they
>>>>> recommend what they recommend.
>>>>>
>>>>> BE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Bill will continue to say this is nonsense, and I'm not going to say
>>>>>> he's wrong. I AM going to say I think he's wrong. The coast guard captain's
>>>>>> class I took went over this, and disagrees with him. Sometimes CG folks
>>>>>> continue to do things based on "tradition", but I think in this case, they
>>>>>> knew what they were teaching.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need chain if your anchor is so heavy you can't pull it up by
>>>>>>> hand.  Then you need a windlass.  The windlasses destroy rope -- they work
>>>>>>> best on chain.  Everybody makes a lot of money by suggesting that you anchor
>>>>>>> better if you have a chain rode, but that is nonsense, and the enormous
>>>>>>> weight of the chain in the bow totally throws off the balance of boats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the process, people start drawing diagrams and providing pseudo
>>>>>>> scientific explanations that make absolutely no sense when you start to
>>>>>>> think about them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then somebody comes up with the 22 feet of chain on the 22 foot boat
>>>>>>> rode rule.  Which also makes absolutely no sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A modern anchor is not like a cinderblock or an engine block.  It does
>>>>>>> not just sit on the bottom, it digs in like a railroad spike, and is
>>>>>>> designed so it can be easily released by changing the angle of the rode from
>>>>>>> the surface.  Adding weight does not help it in any way.  Modern anchors are
>>>>>>> designed to be  pulled at specific angles -- mostly around 45 degrees --
>>>>>>> which is what the 7:1 scope accomplishes.  Chain sitting on the bottom
>>>>>>> defeats the angle of the scope relative to the anchor.  It is
>>>>>>> counter-productive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want more weight on your anchor, get a heavier anchor.  But
>>>>>>> there is no need to do so.  A 2 1/2 lb guardian anchor, properly set, will
>>>>>>> hold you in place forever.  Your rope rode will withstand far more load than
>>>>>>> the fittings on your boat.
>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lowe, Rob wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>> So why does everyone (well, most everyone) suggest using chain on the
>>>>>>>> rode? - rob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:59 AM
>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In order to set the anchor you must put tension on it.  This pulls
>>>>>>>> the rode taut.  When there is no wind or current, the rode will lie flat on
>>>>>>>> the bottom, or float to the surface if it is a floating rode.  But it is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not holding the boat in place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What most people call "dragging the anchor" is usually "dragging the
>>>>>>>> chain".  If you fail to set your anchor -- which you will fail to set
>>>>>>>> properly if you never draw the rode taut -- you can drag the chain all over
>>>>>>>> the place, without ever properly setting the anchor.  If you draw the rode
>>>>>>>> taut and properly set the anchor it just won't drag.
>>>>>>>> A very small anchor can be used to hold a very large boat in place if
>>>>>>>> the anchor is properly set.  It is much easier to set an anchor with an all
>>>>>>>> rope rode.  The chain portion of the rode does not change the angle of pull.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:16:32 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>> Jb,
>>
>> Here's your answer - comparison and contrast of Gibson interview with
>> "The One" v Palin.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> ------------------------
>>
>>    Obama interview:
>>
>>    How does it feel to break a glass ceiling?
>>    How does it feel to "win"?
>>    How does your family feel about your "winning" breaking a glass ceiling?
>>    Who will be your VP?
>>    Should you choose Hillary Clinton as VP?
>>    Will you accept public finance?
>>    What issues is your campaign about?
>>    Will you visit Iraq?
>>    Will you debate McCain at a town hall?
>>    What did you think of your competitor's [Clinton] speech?
>>
>>    Palin interview:
>>    Do you have enough qualifications for the job you're seeking?
>> Specifically have you visited    foreign countries and met foreign
>> leaders?
>>    Aren't you conceited to be seeking this high level job?
>>    Questions about foreign policy
>>    -territorial integrity of Georgia
>>    -allowing Georgia and Ukraine to be members of NATO
>>    -NATO treaty
>>    -Iranian nuclear threat
>>    -what to do if Israel attacks Iran
>>    -Al Qaeda motivations
>>    -the Bush Doctrine
>>    -attacking terrorists harbored by Pakistan
>>    Is America fighting a holy war? [misquoted Palin]
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:04 PM, JbTek <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I saw that last night.
>>>  What a difference between Charlie Gibson & Gretta Van. I wonder if
>>>       
>> Charlie
>>     
>>> would have treated Todd that way?
>>> Jb
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Jb,
>>>>
>>>> I'll sure as hell take Todd as "First Dude" over "Michelle, I was
>>>> never proud of America until now".
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5MWk0V77ko
>>>>
>>>> Maybe Charlie Daniels should have gone into politics.  His "Country
>>>> Boy Will Survive" sure sounds like a good rally cry after all the
>>>> "smart people" in Wall Street from the Ivy League outsmarted
>>>> themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM, JbTek <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Like myself, many are looking right past McCain for a Palin
>>>>>           
>> presidency.
>>     
>>>>> Most know little about her but that doesn't matter to them. Kinda like
>>>>>           
>>> the
>>>       
>>>>> Dems didn't care about the details in Obama.
>>>>> She is the Republicans Obama.
>>>>> My guess is a woman will be president before a black guy will.
>>>>> Jb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:41 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> You got it!! and the inverse, I'm sure, is why the Dems so despise
>>>>>> McCain's pick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obama, who has been touting "change" picked a career Washington
>>>>>> politician, he of "you cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts
>>>>>> unless you have a slight Indian accent" fame, and he even declared he
>>>>>> "wasn't joking". But, Biden really likes Obama, he even publicly
>>>>>>             
>> stated
>>     
>>>>>> that he was "the first mainstream African-American
>>>>>> </wiki/African-American> who is articulate and bright and clean and a
>>>>>> nice-looking guy."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, REAL winner for change there...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, McCain has always been a maverick Republican.
>>>>>>             
>> Those
>>     
>>>>>> Republicans that dislike him, or are ambivalent at best (and I am the
>>>>>> latter group), feel that way because he takes many stances that are
>>>>>>             
>> to
>>     
>>>>>> the left of strong Republicans. While Palin would definitely be
>>>>>> considered a "balance" (she's much more socially conservative than
>>>>>>             
>> he),
>>     
>>>>>> she certainly brings a new "format" of politician to the ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you folks keep crying out the current trend. We'll sympathize
>>>>>>             
>> with
>>     
>>>>>> you all the way to November.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jb wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> The only reason you're thrilled with the Dems pick is it should be
>>>>>>>               
>>> easy
>>>       
>>>>> to
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> beat.
>>>>>>> Obama blew his change platform with a Joe Biden pick. If he was
>>>>>>>               
>> going
>>     
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>> do
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> that he should have picked Hillary...that was stupid.
>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:22 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Not me. I'm THRILLED with who the Dems picked!!! On the other
>>>>>>>>                 
>> hand,
>>     
>>> I
>>>       
>>>>>>>> can certainly understand their distaste for McCain's choice. All
>>>>>>>>                 
>> the
>>     
>>>>>>>> blustering about "she's not a good choice" aside, it's easy to
>>>>>>>> understand why they dislike a 20 point change in women voters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JbTek wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>> Anyone the Dems pic, the Republicans hate....anyone the
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> Republicans
>>     
>>>>> pic,
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Dems hate.
>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter who he picked, it would be the same thing.
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> It'll
>>     
>>>>> never
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>> work right that way.
>>>>>>>>> It amazes me how both sides say the same thing about the other &
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> just
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>> on fighting.
>>>>>>>>> Kinda like some of you on the list. You never get any where so
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> what's
>>>       
>>>>> the
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>> point?
>>>>>>>>> I could go thru what I believe but I don't think anyone cares but
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>> me.
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> I think some people just like to argue......I don't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:26 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny to watch someone debate her intent, when that
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>> same
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>> someone firmly backs the man infamous for his "it depends on
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>> what
>>     
>>> the
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the word 'is' is" comment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> stan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As you have said over the years, we don't disagree on
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> everything
>>     
>>> but
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> on, you have to admit that if you took 1,000 folks who heard
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> her
>>     
>>>>> Bridge
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> Nowhere speech over and over and over again and asked them: did
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>> she
>>>       
>>>>> let
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> go away thinking she did Not take these ear mark dollars, 100%
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> of
>>     
>>>>> those
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>> questioned would say she stood right up there and let us know
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> she
>>     
>>>>> saved
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> money from coming out of our pockets.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please, anyone coming to her defense, spare me that although
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> she
>>     
>>>>> took
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> money she spent it more wisely or that she had no choice but to
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>> take
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> money.  Don't befuddle the issue of her honesty.   She wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> you
>>     
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> what she wanted you to believe and she knew it and she made no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> qualifying
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> remarks and kept repeating her fiction at every chance she
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> could
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>> even showing the wisdom of second thinking of what she was
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>> saying.
>>>       
>>>>> In
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> world, intent is the bottom line.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ben, Slim, and all you on the fencers, help on this
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> disingenuous
>>     
>>>>> (that
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> lying in my Bklyn district) speech review.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:15 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tax revenues have risen, to say they haven't is the "big lie".
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> The
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of revenue isn't the problem, the growth of entitlement
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>> programs
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> is the elephant in the room (feel free to make jokes about
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>> elephants
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> here ________ ). Even with the cost of the Iraq war and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> endless
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> earmarks, "It's the Entitlements Stupid", to paraphrase Bubba
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> circa
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1992.  Anyone who thinks a partial privatization of SS is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> bad
>>     
>>>>> idea
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> need only look around the country at the number of cities and
>>>>>>>>>>>> municipalities that have retirement funds going bankrupt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> Sometimes
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> reality really sucks but it is what it is. Even the Democratic
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>> party
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> in Alaska was touting Palin's killing the "Bridge to Nowhere"
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> on
>>     
>>>>> their
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> website until last week when they got the marching orders to
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> send
>>>       
>>>>> that
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> webpage "down memory hole".  Find a new talking point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now as to stem cell research, I'm 'fer' it, and as to litmus
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> tests,
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm 'agin' it! As to the Global Warming religion, I'm an
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> agnostic
>>>       
>>>>> in
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> most things associated with religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We're down to the last 55 days of this beauty pageant we call
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> an
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>> election and O'Bambi isn't doing a good job of handling the
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> fact
>>     
>>>>> that
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>> he just lost the swimsuit competition. He's never won an
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>> election
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>> against competition and so he's reverting back to his
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> 'raisins',
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago style politics.  Expect more elbows in the days to
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> come.
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:59 AM, stan <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you think they are cute and perky, wait 'til you've seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>> John's.
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if you want 8 more of the same tax theory, stem cell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>> thinking,
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supreme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> court litmus, global warming be damned, environmental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>> leanings,
>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>>> privatizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of ss, and the dumbing down of America so everyone believes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>> her
>>     
>>>>> lying
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not taking all the "Bridge to Nowhere" dollars from their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>> pockets,
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>> she's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your man - even if she has breasts.   Gad, at this age, even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>> I
>>     
>>>>> have
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:17 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                           
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In case your eyeglasses are a little foggy this morning, she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>> has
>>>       
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breasts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                             
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>> list
>>     
>>> go
>>>       
>>>>> to
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>> go
>>>       
>>>>> to
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>>                   
>> go
>>     
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>>>                 
>> go
>>     
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>>               
>>> to
>>>       
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>>             
>> to
>>     
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>           
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>             
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>>           
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>       
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>         
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>       
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>       
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>     
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
>> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:19:51 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>> The GPS can be set to provide an exact scale drawing of your travels.  This
>> shows your tacking angles, changes possible due to windshifts, etc.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:48 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
>>
>> BE
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>     
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs"
>>>       
>> then
>>     
>>> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
>>>       
>> between
>>     
>>> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
>>>
>>> PT
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>
>>> Lee,
>>>
>>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>>>
>>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned
>>> by the deviation.
>>>
>>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
>>> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't
>>> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind
>>> is coming from.
>>>
>>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
>>> less time adjusting your compass.
>>>
>>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your
>>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to
>>> you.  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not
>>> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>>>
>>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
>>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk
>>> to his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he
>>> wouldn't have totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction,
>>> but he was a few degrees off course.
>>>
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>>>
>>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
>>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
>>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
>>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
>>>> To: R22 List
>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>>
>>>> Todd,
>>>>
>>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>>>
>>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>>>
>>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>>>
>>>> These are compass directions.
>>>>
>>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>>>
>>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>>>
>>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
>>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>>>
>>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>>>
>>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
>>>>
>>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>>>
>>>> Homework Assignment:
>>>>
>>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
>>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>>>
>>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>>>
>>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>>>
>>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
>>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
>>>>
>>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>>>
>>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>>>
>>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>>>> degree differences.
>>>>
>>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
>>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>
>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>   From: "Bill Effros"
>>>>>   To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>   Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>   Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Elle,
>>>>>
>>>>>   I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>>>>   deal
>>>>>   with similar problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>>>>   chain.
>>>>>
>>>>>   You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   a
>>>>>   pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>>>>   anchor
>>>>>   locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>>>>   from
>>>>>   it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>>>>   it
>>>>>   on the other.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>>>>   drop
>>>>>   a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   hits the bottom.
>>>>>
>>>>>   If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>>>>   rope
>>>>>   on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>>>   deploying
>>>>>   the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>>>>   surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>>>>   Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>>>>   boat,
>>>>>   and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>>>>   should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>>>>   above it.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>>>>   the
>>>>>   anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> anchor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   I
>>>>>   can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>>>>   surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>>>>   it.
>>>>>
>>>>>   It's a lot like fishing.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>>>
>>>>>   If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>>>   experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>>>>   the
>>>>>   sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>>>>   rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>>>>   order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>>>>   withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>>>>   the
>>>>>   way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>>>>   before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>>>>   permanently set.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>>>>   never
>>>>>   has.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>>>   anchor
>>>>>   into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>>>>   mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>>>>   use
>>>>>   a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>>>>   other
>>>>>   boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>>>>   easily
>>>>>   withstand the elements.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   elle wrote:
>>>>>   > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>>>   > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>>>>   > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>>>   > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>>>   > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > Opinion?
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > Thanks, elle
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>>>>   sails.
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >> From: Bill Effros
>>>>>   >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>   >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>   >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>>>   >> Peter,
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>>>   >> the size of the anchor?
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>>>   >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>>>>   >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>>>   >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>>>   >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>>>   >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>>>   >> dislodge until you get
>>>>>   >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> boat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   to
>>>>>   >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>>>   >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>>>   (There are
>>>>>   >> hundreds.)
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>>>   >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>>>>   from
>>>>>   >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>>>>   >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>>>   >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>>>>   on the
>>>>>   >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>>>>   just
>>>>>   >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>>>>   stress.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>>>   >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>>>>   so I could
>>>>>   >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>>>>   sit on
>>>>>   >> the single mushroom.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>>>   >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>>>>   creates
>>>>>   >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>>>>   on the
>>>>>   >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>>>>   >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>>>>   not had
>>>>>   >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>>>>   >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>>>>   >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>>>   >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> Bill Effros
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> elle,
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> is the best hurricane
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> boats must leave their
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> engineering design at
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> our club.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> shift greatly during the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>>>   >> Some anchors are very
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> at holding in mud,
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>>>   >> But, if broken loose
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> Fortress will more
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> anchoring technique is
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>>>   >> Other experienced storm
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> with our special
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> of the boat, the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> rode and chain.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> attach a Fortress or
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> quickly reset if the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> for the Fortress to
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> large), but I think the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> ground tackle.
>>>>>   >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> I just hauled her
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> But it think it's
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> wind gods send us.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> PT
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>   >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>   >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> Of elle
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>>>   >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>   >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> her head, we decided to
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> the creek...which is a
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> comes with the boat &
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> mechanism is in the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> have massive chafing if
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> then not be
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> detritus..mainly
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> would not set w/all the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> as the CQR (my first
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> piling and the other
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> elle
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> can adjust our sails.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> (Lady in Red)
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> wrote:
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>   >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>>>   >>>> Paul,
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> times in
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>>>   >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>>     
>>>> 1565
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> 18
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> Rubbermaid
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> although I
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>>>>   locker
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> for my bow
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> and pass
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>> Mike
>>>>>   >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>>>   >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>>>   >>>> Sent:
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> Sunday,
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>>>   >>>> impractical way to store
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> hands to
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> get in there.
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> and
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> attaching it to the
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> when I
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> need to.
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> suggestion.
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>> Paul K
>>>>>   >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> using the
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> mailing list go to
>>>>>   >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >> the mailing
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> mailing list go to
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
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>>>>>   >> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>   >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >>
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > __________________________________________________
>>>>>   > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>   > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   > __________________________________________________
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   __________________________________________________
>>>>>   To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>   to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>   __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
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>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:32:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Community Organization
>> Bill,
>>
>> Don't you think it's a bit unfair to only look at failed projects in
>> The One's home state.  He's done good deeds in some of the other 57
>> states and it shows in his recent polling numbers.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> New Pennsylvania: Obama up by six!
>>
>> Old Mexico: Obama leading by four!
>>
>> West Carolina: Obama ahead by two (within the margin of error).
>>
>> Puerto Guam: Obama up big, 62-36 over McCain!
>>
>> Oklabama: Obama up by eight!
>>
>> Barryfornia: Obama has a commanding twelve-point lead!
>>
>> And in the heartland state of East Jesus, Obama is up over McCain by
>> five points!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Brad,
>>>
>>> I think you underestimate Obama's community organizing accomplishments.
>>>
>>> The attached map shows projects sponsored by Barack Obama in his
>>>       
>> district.
>>     
>>> Bill Effros
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: Rezmar Projects In foreclosure.jpg
>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>> Size: 246910 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> Url :
>>>       
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20080916/ecf58f28/attachment.jpg
>>     
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>       
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>     
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:41:22 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Community Organization
>> Brad,
>>
>> How many of those are actual Obama gaffes?
>>
>> I still think it's amazing that President Bush will always have the
>> "new-clear" issue hanging around his neck, but The One can talk about New
>> Pennsylvania, and it goes virtually unnoticed by the press.
>>
>> In spite of what folks say about his oratory abilities, you take away
>> Obama's script and teleprompter, he sounds like a bigger dufus that what
>> President Bush sounds.
>>
>> As a matter of fact, the President seems to have the opposite problem, he
>> stutters and mispronounces when reading prepared script, but does pretty
>> well when he's talking off the cuff.
>>
>>
>> Brad Haslett wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Bill,
>>>
>>> Don't you think it's a bit unfair to only look at failed projects in
>>> The One's home state.  He's done good deeds in some of the other 57
>>> states and it shows in his recent polling numbers.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> ---------------------------
>>>
>>> New Pennsylvania: Obama up by six!
>>>
>>> Old Mexico: Obama leading by four!
>>>
>>> West Carolina: Obama ahead by two (within the margin of error).
>>>
>>> Puerto Guam: Obama up big, 62-36 over McCain!
>>>
>>> Oklabama: Obama up by eight!
>>>
>>> Barryfornia: Obama has a commanding twelve-point lead!
>>>
>>> And in the heartland state of East Jesus, Obama is up over McCain by
>>> five points!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Brad,
>>>>
>>>> I think you underestimate Obama's community organizing accomplishments.
>>>>
>>>> The attached map shows projects sponsored by Barack Obama in his
>>>> district.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> Name: Rezmar Projects In foreclosure.jpg
>>>> Type: image/jpeg
>>>> Size: 246910 bytes
>>>> Desc: not available
>>>> Url :
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20080916/ecf58f28/attachment.jpg
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Ben Cittadino <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] For Ed, from Maine - political
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp
>>
>>
>> Robert;
>>
>> The above link is to today's NY Times column by David Brooks, who you may
>> recognize as the William F. Buckley protege' and conservative commentator.
>> It concisely sets out the problem with Palin that those of us who represent
>> the dying breed of "Rockefeller Republicans" (the political philosophy of
>> your Susan Collins and Olympia Snow) have.
>>
>> As the Party falls away to the anti-intellectual wackos and fundamentalist
>> nut cases (and they know who they are) we can only hope that the
>> overwhelming support of the new politics of hope among the youth (under 40)
>> folks will bode better for the future.
>>
>> Even though I hail from the Great State of New Jersey, home of John
>> Basilone
>> (hero of Guadalcanal), I still consider the greatest American hero to have
>> been Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (teacher, Governor, and hero of the 20th
>> Maine).
>>
>> Fair winds and following seas.
>>
>> Ben C. , s/v Susan Kay. Highlands, NJ
>>
>> Robert Skinner wrote:
>>     
>>> Ed,
>>>
>>> Since you persist in making snide comments about the great
>>> state of Maine, this is to let you know that you have real
>>> opposition in Maine -- perhaps neither as bombastic,
>>> prevaricative, nor monomaniacal as you might find among
>>> your neocon fellow traveler comrade dittoheads, but at
>>> least equally valid [understatement].  As a professional
>>> musician once reminded me, volume is no substitute for
>>> quality.  And, by the way, repetition is no substitute for
>>> logic.
>>>
>>> I, for one, am paying attention to the issues, primarily
>>> the gone-to-hell-in-a-handbasket state of the nation while
>>> in the care (using the term loosely) of the Grumpy Old
>>> Patriarchs, and the fact that a good house-cleaning could
>>> not produce any worse results.  As I see it, any group
>>> of teen-age mutant turtles could do better and cost a hell
>>> of a lot less.
>>>
>>> It doesn't make a lot of difference who is the master of
>>> the ship of state when it is on the rocks.  The question
>>> is who can get it off in one piece.
>>>
>>> OK, now that I've had my turn, you can have the soap-box
>>> back, Ed.  Please clean up after you are done, and put
>>> the seat down.
>>>
>>> /Robert
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
>>> Wednesday 10 September 2008
>>>   by: Andrew Sullivan, The Atlantic
>>>
>>> Editor's Note: Historically a John McCain supporter, conservative
>>> journalist
>>> and blogger Andrew Sullivan takes on the issue of John McCain's integrity
>>> as
>>> he strives to win the presidency. - vh/TO
>>>
>>>       For me, this surreal moment - like the entire surrealism of the
>>>       
>> past
>>     
>>> ten days - is not really about Sarah Palin or Barack Obama or pigs or
>>>       
>> fish
>>     
>>> or lipstick. It's about John McCain. The one thing I always thought I
>>>       
>> knew
>>     
>>> about him is that he is a decent and honest person. When he knows, as
>>> every
>>> sane person must, that Obama did not in any conceivable sense mean that
>>> Sarah Palin is a pig, what did he do? Did he come out and say so and end
>>> this charade? Or did he acquiesce in and thereby enable the mindless
>>> Rovianism that is now the core feature of his campaign?
>>>       So far, he has let us all down. My guess is he will continue to do
>>> so.
>>> And that decision, for my part, ends whatever respect I once had for him.
>>> On
>>> core moral issues, where this man knew what the right thing was, and had
>>> to
>>> pick between good and evil, he chose evil. When he knew that George W.
>>> Bush's war in Iraq was a fiasco and catastrophe, and before Donald
>>> Rumsfeld
>>> quit, McCain endorsed George W. Bush against his fellow Vietnam vet, John
>>> Kerry in 2004. By that decision, McCain lost any credibility that he can
>>> ever put country first. He put party first and his own career first ahead
>>> of
>>> what he knew was best for the country.
>>>       And when the Senate and House voted overwhelmingly to condemn and
>>> end
>>> the torture regime of Bush and Cheney in 2006, McCain again had a clear
>>> choice between good and evil, and chose evil.
>>>       He capitulated and enshrined torture as the policy of the United
>>> States, by allowing the CIA to use techniques as bad as and worse than
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> torture inflicted on him in Vietnam. He gave the war criminals in the
>>> White
>>> House retroactive immunity against the prosecution they so richly
>>>       
>> deserve.
>>     
>>> The enormity of this moral betrayal, this betrayal of his country's
>>>       
>> honor,
>>     
>>> has yet to sink in. But for my part, it now makes much more sense. He is
>>> not
>>> the man I thought he was.
>>>       And when he had the chance to engage in a real and substantive
>>> debate
>>> against the most talented politician of the next generation in a fall
>>> campaign where vital issues are at stake, what did McCain do? He began
>>>       
>> his
>>     
>>> general campaign with a series of grotesque, trivial and absurd MTV-style
>>> attacks on Obama's virtues and implied disgusting things about his
>>> opponent's patriotism.
>>>       And then, because he could see he was going to lose, ten days ago,
>>> he
>>> threw caution to the wind and with no vetting whatsoever, picked a woman
>>> who, by her decision to endure her own eight-month pregnancy of a Down
>>> Syndrome child in public, that he was going to reignite the culture war
>>>       
>> as
>>     
>>> a
>>> last stand against Obama. That's all that is happening right now: a
>>> massive
>>> bump in the enthusiasm of the Christianist base. This is pure Rove.
>>>       Yes, McCain made a decision that revealed many appalling things
>>> about
>>> him. In the end, his final concern is not national security. No one who
>>> cares about national security would pick as vice-president someone who
>>> knows
>>> nothing about it as his replacement. No one who cares about this
>>>       
>> country's
>>     
>>> safety would gamble the security of the world on a total unknown because
>>> she
>>> polled well with the Christianist base. No person who truly believed that
>>> the surge was integral to this country's national security would pick as
>>> his
>>> veep candidate a woman who, so far as we can tell anything, opposed it at
>>> the time.
>>>       McCain has demonstrated in the last two months that he does not
>>>       
>> have
>>     
>>> the character to be president of the United States. And that is why it is
>>> more important than ever to ensure that Barack Obama is the next
>>> president.
>>> The alternative is now unthinkable. And McCain - no one else - has proved
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/1156080,091008ebertpalin.article
>>>
>>> Roger Ebert on Sarah Palin: The American Idol candidate
>>>
>>>
>>> September 11, 2008
>>>
>>> BY ROGER EBERT Sun-Times Movie Critic [How appropriate!]
>>>
>>> I think I might be able to explain some of Sarah Palin's appeal. She's
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> 'American Idol' candidate. Consider. What defines an 'American Idol'
>>> finalist? They're good-looking, work well on television, have a sunny
>>> personality, are fierce competitors, and so talented, why, they're darned
>>> near the real thing. There's a reason 'American Idol' gets such high
>>> ratings. People identify with the contestants. They think, Hey, that
>>>       
>> could
>>     
>>> be me up there on that show!
>>>
>>> My problem is, I don't want to be up there. I don't want a vice president
>>> who is darned near good enough. I want a vice president who is better,
>>> wiser, well-traveled, has met world leaders, who three months ago had an
>>> opinion on Iraq. Someone who doesn't repeat bald- faced lies about
>>> earmarks
>>> and the Bridge to Nowhere. Someone who doesn't appoint Alaskan
>>>       
>> politicians
>>     
>>> to 'study' global warming, because, hello! It has been studied. The
>>> returns
>>> are convincing enough that John McCain and Barack Obama are darned near
>>>       
>> in
>>     
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>> I would also want someone who didn't make a teeny little sneer when
>>> referring to 'people who go to the Ivy League.' When I was a teen I
>>> dreamed
>>> of going to Harvard, but my dad, an electrician, told me, 'Boy, we don't
>>> have the money. Thank your lucky stars you were born in Urbana and can go
>>> to
>>> the University of Illinois right here in town.' So I did, very happily.
>>> Although Palin gets laughs when she mentions the 'elite' Ivy League, she
>>> sure did attend the heck out of college.
>>>
>>> Five different schools in six years. What was that about?
>>>
>>> And how can a politician her age have never have gone to Europe? My dad
>>> had
>>> died, my mom was working as a book-keeper and I had a job at the local
>>> newspaper when, at 19, I scraped together $240 for a charter flight to
>>> Europe. I had Arthur Frommer's $5 a Day under my arm, started in London,
>>> even rented a Vespa and drove in the traffic of Rome. A few years later,
>>>       
>> I
>>     
>>> was able to send my mom, along with the $15 a Day book.
>>>
>>> You don't need to be a pointy-headed elitist to travel abroad. You need
>>> curiosity and a hunger to see the world. What kind of a person (who has
>>> the
>>> money) arrives at the age of 44 and has only been out of the country
>>>       
>> once,
>>     
>>> on an official tour to Iraq? Sarah Palin's travel record is that of a
>>> provincial, not someone who is equipped to deal with global issues.
>>>
>>> But some people like that. She's never traveled to Europe, Asia, Africa,
>>> South America or Down Under? That makes her like them. She didn't go to
>>> Harvard? Good for her! There a lot of hockey moms who haven't seen
>>>       
>> London,
>>     
>>> but most of them would probably love to, if they had the dough. And
>>>       
>> they'd
>>     
>>> be proud if one of their kids won a scholarship to Harvard.
>>>
>>> I trust the American people will see through Palin, and save the Republic
>>> in
>>> November. The most damning indictment against her is that she considered
>>> herself a good choice to be a heartbeat away. That shows bad judgment.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/For-Ed%2C-from-Maine---political-tp19503919p19520250.html
>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:04:26 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>> Thanks, Peter,
>>
>> I'll review when next on board.
>>
>> Do you think this conversation was based on GPS tacking angles or seat of
>> pants tacking angles?
>>
>> What tacking angles were you able to achieve when you were paying attention
>> in your R-22?
>>
>> BE
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> The GPS can be set to provide an exact scale drawing of your travels.
>>>  This
>>> shows your tacking angles, changes possible due to windshifts, etc.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:48 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>
>>> Peter,
>>>
>>> Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
>>>
>>> BE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs"
>>>> then
>>>> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> between
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
>>>>
>>>> PT
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>>
>>>> Lee,
>>>>
>>>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned by
>>>> the deviation.
>>>>
>>>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
>>>> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't have
>>>> the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind is coming
>>>> from.
>>>>
>>>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
>>>> less time adjusting your compass.
>>>>
>>>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust your
>>>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to you.
>>>>  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not sure the
>>>> compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
>>>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk to
>>>> his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he wouldn't have
>>>> totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction, but he was a few
>>>> degrees off course.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
>>>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
>>>>>
>>>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
>>>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
>>>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
>>>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of my
>>>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
>>>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
>>>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't too
>>>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to nowhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
>>>>> Kent Island, MD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16,
>>>>> 2008 10:42 AM
>>>>> To: R22 List
>>>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
>>>>>
>>>>> Todd,
>>>>>
>>>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110 degrees.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are compass directions.
>>>>>
>>>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
>>>>>
>>>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
>>>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
>>>>>
>>>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
>>>>>
>>>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong answers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Homework Assignment:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects and
>>>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
>>>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
>>>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
>>>>>
>>>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
>>>>>
>>>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
>>>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
>>>>>
>>>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly off,
>>>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
>>>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
>>>>> degree differences.
>>>>>
>>>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Effros
>>>>>
>>>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to set
>>>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
>>>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass with
>>>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
>>>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
>>>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
>>>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
>>>>>> Todd T
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>  From: "Bill Effros"
>>>>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>  Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Elle,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
>>>>>>  deal
>>>>>>  with similar problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
>>>>>>  chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  a
>>>>>>  pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
>>>>>>  anchor
>>>>>>  locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
>>>>>>  from
>>>>>>  it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
>>>>>>  it
>>>>>>  on the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
>>>>>>  drop
>>>>>>  a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> you
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  hits the bottom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
>>>>>>  rope
>>>>>>  on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
>>>>>>  deploying
>>>>>>  the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
>>>>>>  surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
>>>>>>  Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
>>>>>>  boat,
>>>>>>  and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
>>>>>>  should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
>>>>>>  above it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>  anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> anchor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>  can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
>>>>>>  surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
>>>>>>  it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  It's a lot like fishing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
>>>>>>  experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>  sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
>>>>>>  rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
>>>>>>  order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
>>>>>>  withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>  way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
>>>>>>  before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
>>>>>>  permanently set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
>>>>>>  never
>>>>>>  has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
>>>>>>  anchor
>>>>>>  into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
>>>>>>  mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
>>>>>>  use
>>>>>>  a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
>>>>>>  other
>>>>>>  boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
>>>>>>  easily
>>>>>>  withstand the elements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Bill Effros
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  elle wrote:
>>>>>>  > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
>>>>>>  > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
>>>>>>  > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
>>>>>>  > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
>>>>>>  > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Opinion?
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Thanks, elle
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
>>>>>>  sails.
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  >> From: Bill Effros
>>>>>>  >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>  >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>  >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
>>>>>>  >> Peter,
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
>>>>>>  >> the size of the anchor?
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
>>>>>>  >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
>>>>>>  >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
>>>>>>  >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> I've never tried it, though.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
>>>>>>  >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
>>>>>>  >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
>>>>>>  >> dislodge until you get
>>>>>>  >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> boat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  to
>>>>>>  >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
>>>>>>  >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
>>>>>>  (There are
>>>>>>  >> hundreds.)
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
>>>>>>  >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
>>>>>>  from
>>>>>>  >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
>>>>>>  >> individual anchors. Anchoring
>>>>>>  >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
>>>>>>  on the
>>>>>>  >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
>>>>>>  just
>>>>>>  >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
>>>>>>  stress.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
>>>>>>  >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
>>>>>>  so I could
>>>>>>  >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
>>>>>>  sit on
>>>>>>  >> the single mushroom.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
>>>>>>  >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
>>>>>>  creates
>>>>>>  >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
>>>>>>  on the
>>>>>>  >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
>>>>>>  >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
>>>>>>  not had
>>>>>>  >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
>>>>>>  >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
>>>>>>  >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
>>>>>>  >> in the water than it is on land.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> Bill Effros
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >> Peter Thorn wrote:
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> elle,
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> is the best hurricane
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> boats must leave their
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> Creek. It's about 15
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> bottom and then hard clay
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> engineering design at
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> our club.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> shift greatly during the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
>>>>>>  >> Some anchors are very
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> at holding in mud,
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
>>>>>>  >> But, if broken loose
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> Fortress will more
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Different people do different things. One popular
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> anchoring technique is
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
>>>>>>  >> Other experienced storm
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> with our special
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> of the boat, the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> rode and chain.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> attach a Fortress or
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> quickly reset if the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> for the Fortress to
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> Gulfstar 37 has used
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> Broad Creek. His boat is
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> large), but I think the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> ground tackle.
>>>>>>  >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> I just hauled her
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> But it think it's
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> wind gods send us.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> May all your storms go the other way,
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> PT
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>  >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>  >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> Of elle
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
>>>>>>  >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>  >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> her head, we decided to
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> the creek...which is a
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> at about 45 deg off the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> comes with the boat &
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> 8-10' of chain.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> mechanism is in the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> have massive chafing if
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> then not be
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> head-to-wind.....
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> detritus..mainly
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> would not set w/all the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> as the CQR (my first
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> piling and the other
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> to a tree on shore.
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> elle
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> can adjust our sails.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> (Lady in Red)
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >> wrote:
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
>>>>>>  >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
>>>>>>  >>>> Paul,
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> times in
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
>>>>>>  >>>> locker" yielded:
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
>>>>> 1565
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>> 18
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> Rubbermaid
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> although I
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
>>>>>>  locker
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> for my bow
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> and pass
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> it through my bow chocks.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> Mike
>>>>>>  >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
>>>>>>  >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
>>>>>>  >>>> Sent:
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >> Sunday,
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
>>>>>>  >>>> impractical way to store
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> hands to
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> get in there.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> the
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> cockpit benches, in a
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> and
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> attaching it to the
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> when I
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>> need to.
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> suggestion.
>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>> Paul K
>>>>>>  >>>>> "Clarity"
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>  >>
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>>>>>>  >>
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>>>>>>  >>>>>
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>>>>>>  >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
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>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>  >>>>>
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>>>>>>  >>
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