[Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem

[Steven Alm]

Paul,

I can get my boat to do a 90 degree tack but only under full sail with my
175 and IMF.  Actually, I usually over-shoot so it's really a 110 but the
point (pun) is I can sail 45 off the wind.  And if you're under full sail
that means the winds are light and you can take your traveler to weather so
you can get your boom on or about the center line.  And again, since it's
light air, ease the main outhaul and let the sail bag out a little.

When you reef in the jib you get a big, fat sausage on the luff of the
sail.  This upsets the flow of air across it and looses efficiency.  A jib
luff pad will help as it takes in the belly of the sail and you don't get
that sag in the middle.  Better sail shape but bigger sausage.  When the
winds require you reef in, sorry, you just won't point as high, but the luff
pad helps.  So when you have the jib sheets inboard of the shrouds you are
setting closer hauled but you're also losing efficiency because you're
reefed.  Do any boats sail better when reefed?     It's all compromise,
right?

Don't try to pinch so high that you luff trying to find that utmost highest
angle and then feather yourself back and forth.  You lose speed doing that.
Find your course and steady as she goes.  I don't have a Windex but that
migth help you to see the exact angle.  Sit (or stand) forward as you can
and be still.  The more you move about the cockpit, the more you disrupt the
balance and you lose speed.

Pop top down (mentioned before) This is a must for the highest possible
pointing.  The raised pop-top creates more windage and more healing.  Great
for party-sailing comfort but adds another 10-15 degrees to your upwind
tack.

Boom in upper or lower position depending on wind conditions.  In higher
winds, say 15+ and gusty, you'll get much better performance with the boom
down--what we affectionately refer to as "The First Reef."  This lowers the
center-of-effort and allows you to keep more sail cloth out before you have
to reef in the main.   I don't roll in the main until about 18+.  Ease your
traveler to lee and tighten up the main outhaul to flatten it out.

You're never going to point as high as those catamarans.  Fagetaboutit!  But
they'll never be as comfortable as you.  Everything on a sailboat is a
compromise.

Slim

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> I'm in Greenwich.  I often sail over to your harbor, and I sometimes get
> trapped inside.  It's a time of day issue.  Easy for me to get in,
> sometimes hard to get out.  I actually have motored out on occasion when
> I could see I would never make it back to Greenwich on time.  Generally
> I can sail back across, but sometimes everything gets calm and I have to
> do a lot of motoring.
>
> I used to do it on a Sunfish.  Power boaters towed me back to Greenwich
> innumerable times.  Friends with Hobies get becalmed out there, too, and
> I haul them back home.
>
> I don't think you're looking at a pointing issue -- that's light air.
> Do you have a 175?
>
> Bill Effros
>
>
>
> Paul Krawitz wrote:
> > Thanks for your good advice, Bill.
> > But really, we nor anyone else is ever in danger. The "harbor" is shown
> at
> >
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=11724&ie=UTF8&ll=40.882242,-73.475103&spn=0.055743,0.06815&t=h&z=14&iwloc=addr
> >
> >
> > There are a couple mooring fields near the southern aspect, but otherwise
> > it's open. In the wider part, it's an 8-15 minute tack across.
> >
> > During the early summer, the southerly breezes would take us out in 25
> > minutes to the top of the satellite image. But beating back was
> frequently
> > more than 2 hours. Other than the mooring fields, the harbor is often
> empty
> > except for a couple clammers.
> >
> > We never play dodge and weave in the mooring field, and if the winds
> allow
> > us to make a dock landing, we always make sure that we have an escape
> route.
> >
> > The question I originally asked wasn't addressing whether we're being
> > responsible on the water. Rather, with a southerly wind, it would be much
> > more pleasant to make it back in 4-5 tacks rather than 10-15.
> >
> > But in order to do that the boat has to be able to point higher than I
> get
> > get it to go.
> >
> > Of course, watching those sleek catamarans make it back in 2-3 tacks is
> hard
> > to swallow.
> >
> > Paul K
> > "Clarity"
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:04 PM, <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
> >>        rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>
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> >>        http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
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> >>
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> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>   1. Re: Pointing Problem (Bill Effros)
> >>   2. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Bill Effros)
> >>   3.  Pointing Problem (Paul Krawitz)
> >>   4. Re: [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art pretend not to
> >>      read] (Herb Parsons)
> >>   5. Re: Pointing Problem (Herb Parsons)
> >>   6. Re: anchoring (Herb Parsons)
> >>   7. Re: Brad, now my turn: (Brad Haslett)
> >>   8. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Peter Thorn)
> >>   9. Re: Community Organization (Brad Haslett)
> >>  10. Re: Community Organization (Herb Parsons)
> >>  11. Re: For Ed, from Maine - political (Ben Cittadino)
> >>  12. Re: Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses (Bill Effros)
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:45:55 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
> >> Paul,
> >>
> >> I was taught it is irresponsible to tack back and forth in harbors.  I
> see
> >> people doing it in my harbor, and smashing into moored boats, or cutting
> in
> >> front of other boats that clearly have the right of way.  A couple of
> people
> >> a year get killed around here sailing when they should be motoring.
> >>
> >> When there is no traffic I sometimes practice, just to make sure I can
> sail
> >> up to my mooring single handed, or sail to the dock, get off my boat and
> tie
> >> it up single handed.
> >> I've got a pretty good idea of how high  I can point, and how long it
> will
> >> take me to get from where I am to where I want to be.  I rarely use more
> >> than 10 gallons of gas a year, and I go out 50 to 75 times.  I always
> motor
> >> out of the harbor to make sure all systems are working properly, and
> usually
> >> motor back into my mooring.  There is very little margin for error at
> low
> >> tide where I am moored.
> >>
> >> I sail into trouble 1 or 2 times a year.  I quickly deploy an anchor
> when I
> >> get into trouble, to give me the time to figure out what to do next.  I
> try
> >> not to sail out of trouble unless I'm sure it is the best course of
> action.
> >>
> >> I use a GPS to calculate how long it will take me to get back to my
> >> mooring, and a cell phone to advise my wife.  These tools have proved
> quite
> >> valuable.  In my mind I always want to think I can point higher than I
> can
> >> point, or that the wind will remain steady in the exact direction I need
> it
> >> to go.
> >>
> >> I doubt you will ever be able to point high enough to overcome errors
> made
> >> at the start of your sail regarding distance and bearing from home.  I
> am
> >> very careful about this when I sail if I have to get back by a certain
> hour.
> >>
> >> Bill Effros
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Krawitz wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> To Bill Effros,
> >>> Yes, I have an engine...
> >>>
> >>> But I tend to stand on circumstance and am quite stubborn about beating
> >>> back
> >>> unless the setting sun beats me home.
> >>>
> >>> Only then will I give in and turn on the engine.
> >>>
> >>> It's immature, I admit.
> >>>
> >>> Paul K
> >>> "Clarity"
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Bill Effros <bill at effros.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:48:24 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >> Peter,
> >>
> >> Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
> >>
> >> BE
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Thorn wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs"
> then
> >>> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
> >>> between
> >>> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
> >>>
> >>> PT
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >>>
> >>> Lee,
> >>>
> >>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned
> by
> >>> the deviation.
> >>>
> >>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
> is
> >>> off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't
> have the
> >>> slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind is coming
> >>> from.
> >>>
> >>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
> >>> less time adjusting your compass.
> >>>
> >>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust
> your
> >>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to
> you.
> >>>  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not sure
> the
> >>> compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
> >>>
> >>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
> >>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk
> to
> >>> his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he wouldn't
> have
> >>> totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction, but he was a
> few
> >>> degrees off course.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Bill,
> >>>>
> >>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
> >>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
> >>>>
> >>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
> >>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
> >>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
> >>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of
> my
> >>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
> >>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
> >>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't
> too
> >>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to
> nowhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee
> >>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
> >>>> Kent Island, MD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com] Sent: Tuesday, September
> 16,
> >>>> 2008 10:42 AM
> >>>> To: R22 List
> >>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd,
> >>>>
> >>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110
> degrees.
> >>>>
> >>>> These are compass directions.
> >>>>
> >>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
> >>>>
> >>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
> >>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
> >>>>
> >>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
> >>>>
> >>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong
> answers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Homework Assignment:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects
> and
> >>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
> >>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
> >>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
> >>>>
> >>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
> >>>>
> >>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
> >>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
> >>>>
> >>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
> >>>>
> >>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
> off,
> >>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
> >>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
> >>>> degree differences.
> >>>>
> >>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to
> set
> >>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
> >>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass
> with
> >>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
> >>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
> >>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
> >>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
> >>>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
> >>>>> Todd T
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>  From: "Bill Effros"
> >>>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>  Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Elle,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
> >>>>>  deal
> >>>>>  with similar problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
> >>>>>  chain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  a
> >>>>>  pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
> >>>>>  anchor
> >>>>>  locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
> >>>>>  from
> >>>>>  it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
> >>>>>  it
> >>>>>  on the other.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
> >>>>>  drop
> >>>>>  a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> you
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  hits the bottom.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
> >>>>>  rope
> >>>>>  on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
> >>>>>  deploying
> >>>>>  the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
> >>>>>  surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
> >>>>>  Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
> >>>>>  boat,
> >>>>>  and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
> >>>>>  should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost directly
> >>>>>  above it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
> >>>>>  the
> >>>>>  anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> anchor
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  I
> >>>>>  can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on the
> >>>>>  surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
> >>>>>  it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  It's a lot like fishing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
> >>>>>  experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to bring
> >>>>>  the
> >>>>>  sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
> >>>>>  rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet in
> >>>>>  order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
> >>>>>  withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
> >>>>>  the
> >>>>>  way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
> >>>>>  before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
> >>>>>  permanently set.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
> >>>>>  never
> >>>>>  has.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
> >>>>>  anchor
> >>>>>  into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
> >>>>>  mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how to
> >>>>>  use
> >>>>>  a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
> >>>>>  other
> >>>>>  boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
> >>>>>  easily
> >>>>>  withstand the elements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Bill Effros
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  elle wrote:
> >>>>>  > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
> >>>>>  > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
> >>>>>  > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
> >>>>>  > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
> >>>>>  > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > Opinion?
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > Thanks, elle
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
> >>>>>  sails.
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >> From: Bill Effros
> >>>>>  >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>  >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>  >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
> >>>>>  >> Peter,
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
> >>>>>  >> the size of the anchor?
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
> >>>>>  >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than the
> >>>>>  >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
> >>>>>  >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> I've never tried it, though.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
> >>>>>  >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
> >>>>>  >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
> >>>>>  >> dislodge until you get
> >>>>>  >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> boat
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  to
> >>>>>  >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
> >>>>>  >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
> >>>>>  (There are
> >>>>>  >> hundreds.)
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
> >>>>>  >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
> >>>>>  from
> >>>>>  >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
> >>>>>  >> individual anchors. Anchoring
> >>>>>  >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous stress
> >>>>>  on the
> >>>>>  >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
> >>>>>  just
> >>>>>  >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
> >>>>>  stress.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
> >>>>>  >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
> >>>>>  so I could
> >>>>>  >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air, and
> >>>>>  sit on
> >>>>>  >> the single mushroom.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
> >>>>>  >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
> >>>>>  creates
> >>>>>  >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical stress
> >>>>>  on the
> >>>>>  >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my bow
> >>>>>  >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
> >>>>>  not had
> >>>>>  >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
> >>>>>  >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
> >>>>>  >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
> >>>>>  >> in the water than it is on land.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> Bill Effros
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >> Peter Thorn wrote:
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> elle,
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> is the best hurricane
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> boats must leave their
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> Creek. It's about 15
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> bottom and then hard clay
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> engineering design at
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> our club.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> shift greatly during the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
> >>>>>  >> Some anchors are very
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> at holding in mud,
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
> >>>>>  >> But, if broken loose
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> Fortress will more
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> Different people do different things. One popular
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> anchoring technique is
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
> >>>>>  >> Other experienced storm
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> with our special
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> of the boat, the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> rode and chain.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> attach a Fortress or
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> quickly reset if the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> for the Fortress to
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> Gulfstar 37 has used
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> Broad Creek. His boat is
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> large), but I think the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> ground tackle.
> >>>>>  >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> I just hauled her
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> But it think it's
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> wind gods send us.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> May all your storms go the other way,
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> PT
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>  >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>  >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> Of elle
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
> >>>>>  >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>>>  >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> her head, we decided to
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> the creek...which is a
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> at about 45 deg off the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> comes with the boat &
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> 8-10' of chain.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> mechanism is in the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> have massive chafing if
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> then not be
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> head-to-wind.....
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> detritus..mainly
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> would not set w/all the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> as the CQR (my first
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> piling and the other
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> to a tree on shore.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> elle
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> can adjust our sails.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> (Lady in Red)
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> wrote:
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>  >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
> >>>>>  >>>> Paul,
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> times in
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
> >>>>>  >>>> locker" yielded:
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
> >>>> 1565
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> 18
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> Rubbermaid
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern anchor,
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> although I
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
> >>>>>  locker
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> for my bow
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> and pass
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> it through my bow chocks.
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> Mike
> >>>>>  >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
> >>>>>  >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
> >>>>>  >>>> Sent:
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> Sunday,
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
> >>>>>  >>>> impractical way to store
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> hands to
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> get in there.
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> cockpit benches, in a
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> and
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> attaching it to the
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> when I
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> need to.
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> suggestion.
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>> Paul K
> >>>>>  >>>>> "Clarity"
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> using the
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> mailing list go to
> >>>>>  >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>  >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >> the mailing
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> mailing list go to
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> version of virus signature
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> database 3441 (20080915) __________
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> http://www.eset.com
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>  >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >>
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>  > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  > __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  __________________________________________________
> >>>>>  To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>  to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>  __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
> attachments,
> >>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> for the sole use of the intended
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information.
> Any
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by
> reply
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >>> signature
> >>> database 3446 (20080916) __________
> >>>
> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.eset.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Paul Krawitz" <krawitzmail-rhodes22 at yahoo.com>
> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:50:21 -0400
> >> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
> >> Lee,
> >> The only way I can move when less than 45 degrees off the wind is by
> >> feathering (intermittently coming further upwind than close-hauled)
> while
> >> sailing in the groove, and only with Force 3+ winds.
> >>
> >> Even with everything snugged tight and the jib in the same position as
> >> yours, I'm not nearly as high as I wish.
> >>
> >> And I never can hold my tack points 90 degrees off my current course. I
> >> always have to fall off.
> >>
> >> Paul K
> >> "Clarity"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:57:56 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art
> >> pretend not to read]
> >> You know, if I were running for President of the USA, and I KNEW deep in
> my
> >> heart (just as he should have known) that most of the voters on both
> sides
> >> of the isle were facing voting for someone other than their real choice,
> >> when I started looking around, the question I'd ask myself is:
> >>
> >> Would people rather have this person than me for President.
> >>
> >> If he asked that, it would explain why he made a good choice.
> >>
> >> I think if you talked to most Republicans, they'll tell you they'd
> rather
> >> have Palin at the top of the ticket.
> >>
> >>
> >> JbTek wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Ed said, "McCain's choice of running mate is the first light that
> >>> Americans
> >>> have seen
> >>> in solving this problem.
> >>> McCain's decision is the first good grasp toward good judgement."
> >>>
> >>> Whilst it was a good choice,
> >>> I think it was more of a ...."what do I have to lose" choice.
> >>> He was most likely going to lose anyway so why not throw in a wild
> card.
> >>> The stratigest that recomended her will probably get a cabinet post.
> >>> Politics will never change.
> >>> Jb
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tootle" <ekroposki at charter.net>
> >>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:57 AM
> >>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] [Political] Jay Said [Big Al delete, Art
> pretend
> >>> not to read]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Jay said, "Obama blew his change platform with a Joe Biden pick. If he
> >>>> was
> >>>> going to do that he should have picked Hillary...that was stupid."
> >>>>
> >>>> Whilst all of us make mistakes, including Presidential candidates,
> making
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> blunder of that caliber is demonstrative of other possible
> appointments
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> decisions.  Whereas the old codger from Arizona demonstrated a style
> of
> >>>> judgment that many Americans are looking for.
> >>>>
> >>>> Reagan said that the problem is government.  Actually one problem is
> >>>> inbreeding or inside the beltway groupies.  While some inside
> experience
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> helpful and appropriate, too much yields the economic results we see
> >>>> going
> >>>> on, on Wall Street.  Insider control of destiny leads to not seeing
> the
> >>>> obvious and not seeing the truth.
> >>>>
> >>>> Obama's approach is just a twist of disproven Marxist and Keynesian
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> economic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> policies.  While they criticize supply side economics they miss an
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> important
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> aspect.  The fundamental issue that they miss is that they, be they
> >>>> Presidential candidates, Senators, Congressmen, or liberal news
> >>>> commentators, they are not by their position smarter or more
> >>>> knowledgeable
> >>>> of things than others.  Others, means ordinary Americans like those on
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> this
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> forum.  Sometimes those others are smarter, or can see the situation
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> better.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Bill Buckley said, "I'd rather entrust the government of the United
> >>>> States
> >>>> to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than
> to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> faculty of Harvard University. William F. Buckley (1925 -2008).  What
> he
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> was
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> saying is that Americans collectively are not stupid.  However,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> individually
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> politicians can do stupid things.
> >>>>
> >>>> Liberalism or any form of Marxism puts too much power in stupid
> mistake
> >>>> making politicians.  Those who accept creeping socialism are those
> >>>> putting
> >>>> the power in those who lack vision or just the ability to see truth.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes there is a need for a Sheriff, but the Sheriff must be accountable
> >>>> and
> >>>> not self serving.  The Washington politicians, whether Bush, Reid,
> Pelosi
> >>>> and all the rest have neither the desire for truth and honesty, nor
> the
> >>>> capacity to put those who do in the right jobs.
> >>>>
> >>>> McCain's choice of running mate is the first light that Americans have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> seen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> in solving this problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> McCain's decision is the first good grasp toward good judgement.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed K
> >>>> Greenville, SC, USA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> View this message in context:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://www.nabble.com/-Political--Jay-Said--Big-Al-delete%2C-Art-pretend-not-to-read--tp19509500p19509500.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:15 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pointing Problem
> >> My kind of sailor!
> >>
> >> Paul Krawitz wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> To Bill Effros,
> >>> Yes, I have an engine...
> >>>
> >>> But I tend to stand on circumstance and am quite stubborn about beating
> >>> back
> >>> unless the setting sun beats me home.
> >>>
> >>> Only then will I give in and turn on the engine.
> >>>
> >>> It's immature, I admit.
> >>>
> >>> Paul K
> >>> "Clarity"
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:12:32 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >> Sigh.... You can be so frustrating. There is so much I agree with you
> on,
> >> but also so much I disagree. On the up side, isn't it fun when life's a
> >> smorgasborg, and you get to take what you like about anything, and
> ignore
> >> the rest.
> >>
> >> I agree. Most people buy too much anchor, and then don't use it because
> >> they don't know how because it's too much trouble.
> >>
> >> Have I ever mentioned my first year owning a sailboat?
> >>
> >> I never took down my 150 Genoa, except to stow it when I slipped the
> boat.
> >> If 30 mph winds blew across the lake, I let my O'Day 25 heel over to
> 30-35
> >> degrees, hand on to the rudder, and yell with delight (my wife and grown
> >> kids usually weren't quite a delighted).
> >>
> >> Then one day, when the winds were blowing 30 gusting to 40, I noticed
> that
> >> the stitching was coming loose on the 150. I told my wife we had "that
> >> smaller sail", we could use it.
> >>
> >> The boat sailed flatter. Not too flat (my boat sails best at about
> >> 15degrees), and still actually overpowered, but no more 35-40 degree
> heel.
> >> No more leaning my full weight into the rudder to hold a straight line.
> >>
> >> And then I noticed something really interesting. I was going faster!
> >>
> >> In the years since, I've learned to reef the main, roll the fuler (on
> other
> >> people's boats, I still haven't installed mine), and all the other good
> >> things that will make a boat sail better.
> >>
> >> I look at anchoring sort of like that. Some folks will do it wrong, and
> >> some won't bother, until they some how learn to get it closer to right.
> Then
> >> the pieces will start to fit for them.
> >>
> >> I got a kick out of being on a friend's boat. He's a racer (I race, but
> >> only as crew, I help other people tear up their boats and save mine for
> the
> >> fun stuff). One day when our club was doing a social event, he couldn't
> >> anchor his boat. He tried about 5 times, and was about to give up (I
> think
> >> his wife was about to mutiny, more than him giving up), and I offered to
> do
> >> it. A few minutes later we were anchored well, and grilling burgers
> while
> >> the kids swam.
> >>
> >> He told me he never sees me anchor, when had I learned to do that. I
> told
> >> him I'd go to different parts of the lake about once a month and just
> anchor
> >> 20 or 30 times. The full drill, lowering, setting, pulling, flaking,
> repeat.
> >>
> >> He said he'd have to try that sometime. I think he still gets other
> folks
> >> to anchor for him :).
> >>
> >> Bill Effros wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Herb,
> >>>
> >>> Catenary curve is fascinating and real -- extremely important for
> towing
> >>> and holding up suspension bridges.  Anything where the object on the
> end of
> >>> the line is subject to movement.  But that's not the case with
> anchoring,
> >>> where the object at the end of the line is stationary, and you are
> trying to
> >>> keep yourself from moving as well.
> >>>
> >>> When anchoring, the principle of the catenary curve works against you.
> >>>  You don't need to create slack in the rode to cushion the load if you
> use
> >>> rope.  Simply use rope with stretch and you can forget snubbers and
> overly
> >>> taut line.
> >>>
> >>> The load on the line is truly minuscule, almost all the time.  (If the
> >>> load were more than a few pounds, you would not be able to pull it in
> by
> >>> hand.)
> >>>
> >>> I remind you of the worlds oldest shoe store joke:
> >>>
> >>> A woman comes into a shoe store and says:
> >>>
> >>> "5 is my size, but 6 feels so good I buy a 7."
> >>>
> >>> I believe the same applies to anchors.  Might as well buy more anchor
> than
> >>> you need...just in case.  Soon enough you never use the over sized
> anchor
> >>> because it is such a pain, and when you might really need it, you can't
> >>> trust it because you never deployed it frequently enough to have
> confidence
> >>> in your ability to do so in an emergency.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> It was about 3 years ago. Catenary curve affects not only anchoring,
> but
> >>>> towing as well. They touched on both, but interestingly enough, towing
> is
> >>>> where they talked about it the most. Here's an interesting perspective
> on
> >>>> that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've towed some big boats (not ships, but 40'+ boats) after taking the
> >>>> class, and remembered what I had learned. In a good tow, the hawser
> seldom
> >>>> goes taught, or straight. The weight of the line itself will pull it
> down
> >>>> causing the curve.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Herb,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How long ago did you take the class?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you look at older West Marine catalogs they had diagrams of anchor
> >>>>> rode showing "catenary curves" in "taut" anchor rode explaining that
> the
> >>>>> weight of the chain pulled the anchor parallel to the bottom.  Then,
> one
> >>>>> year, they explained that their own diagrams were nonsense, and that
> the
> >>>>> anchors were designed to be pulled at a 45 degree angle to the
> bottom, and
> >>>>> that the notion of "scope" had no validity if the chain could change
> the
> >>>>> angle of pull.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just looked again.  The catenary curve diagrams and explanation are
> >>>>> gone.  But the chain lying on the bottom diagram is back, along with
> the
> >>>>> straight 45 degree angle of scope.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The recommendation has changed from a flat 6 feet of chain, to 1 foot
> >>>>> per waterline foot, to the current recommendation of 65 feet of chain
> tied
> >>>>> to 200 feet of  rope.
> >>>>> The explanation varies from "bottom abrasion" to "Shorter scope."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BUBBA MEISAS! (As Stan's Grandmother would say.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is no bottom abrasion if your rode floats. -- It never hits the
> >>>>> bottom.  It never gets dirty except for picking up seaweed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scope is scope.  The angle is the same whether it is chain or rope.
> >>>>> Dumping 65 feet of chain on a bottom just 8 feet below; never setting
> >>>>> your anchor, and then wandering around within a 150 foot circle
> unable to
> >>>>> determine if your anchor is set or dragging, makes no sense at all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you don't have a windlass you don't use the anchor because it's
> too
> >>>>> difficult to retrieve and never reliably sets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Get a $100 2 1/2 lb. guardian.  Try it on an all rope rode.  Deploy
> it;
> >>>>> retrieve it; learn to flake the rode; store the whole shooting match
> under
> >>>>> the cockpit seat.  Then ask the CG guys to explain to you, again, why
> they
> >>>>> recommend what they recommend.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Herb Parsons wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Bill will continue to say this is nonsense, and I'm not going to say
> >>>>>> he's wrong. I AM going to say I think he's wrong. The coast guard
> captain's
> >>>>>> class I took went over this, and disagrees with him. Sometimes CG
> folks
> >>>>>> continue to do things based on "tradition", but I think in this
> case, they
> >>>>>> knew what they were teaching.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bill Effros wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rob,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You need chain if your anchor is so heavy you can't pull it up by
> >>>>>>> hand.  Then you need a windlass.  The windlasses destroy rope --
> they work
> >>>>>>> best on chain.  Everybody makes a lot of money by suggesting that
> you anchor
> >>>>>>> better if you have a chain rode, but that is nonsense, and the
> enormous
> >>>>>>> weight of the chain in the bow totally throws off the balance of
> boats.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the process, people start drawing diagrams and providing pseudo
> >>>>>>> scientific explanations that make absolutely no sense when you
> start to
> >>>>>>> think about them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Then somebody comes up with the 22 feet of chain on the 22 foot
> boat
> >>>>>>> rode rule.  Which also makes absolutely no sense.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A modern anchor is not like a cinderblock or an engine block.  It
> does
> >>>>>>> not just sit on the bottom, it digs in like a railroad spike, and
> is
> >>>>>>> designed so it can be easily released by changing the angle of the
> rode from
> >>>>>>> the surface.  Adding weight does not help it in any way.  Modern
> anchors are
> >>>>>>> designed to be  pulled at specific angles -- mostly around 45
> degrees --
> >>>>>>> which is what the 7:1 scope accomplishes.  Chain sitting on the
> bottom
> >>>>>>> defeats the angle of the scope relative to the anchor.  It is
> >>>>>>> counter-productive.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you want more weight on your anchor, get a heavier anchor.  But
> >>>>>>> there is no need to do so.  A 2 1/2 lb guardian anchor, properly
> set, will
> >>>>>>> hold you in place forever.  Your rope rode will withstand far more
> load than
> >>>>>>> the fittings on your boat.
> >>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lowe, Rob wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bill,
> >>>>>>>> So why does everyone (well, most everyone) suggest using chain on
> the
> >>>>>>>> rode? - rob
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Effros
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:59 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In order to set the anchor you must put tension on it.  This pulls
> >>>>>>>> the rode taut.  When there is no wind or current, the rode will
> lie flat on
> >>>>>>>> the bottom, or float to the surface if it is a floating rode.  But
> it is
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> not holding the boat in place.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What most people call "dragging the anchor" is usually "dragging
> the
> >>>>>>>> chain".  If you fail to set your anchor -- which you will fail to
> set
> >>>>>>>> properly if you never draw the rode taut -- you can drag the chain
> all over
> >>>>>>>> the place, without ever properly setting the anchor.  If you draw
> the rode
> >>>>>>>> taut and properly set the anchor it just won't drag.
> >>>>>>>> A very small anchor can be used to hold a very large boat in place
> if
> >>>>>>>> the anchor is properly set.  It is much easier to set an anchor
> with an all
> >>>>>>>> rope rode.  The chain portion of the rode does not change the
> angle of pull.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> go
> >>>>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:16:32 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >> Jb,
> >>
> >> Here's your answer - comparison and contrast of Gibson interview with
> >> "The One" v Palin.
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> ------------------------
> >>
> >>    Obama interview:
> >>
> >>    How does it feel to break a glass ceiling?
> >>    How does it feel to "win"?
> >>    How does your family feel about your "winning" breaking a glass
> ceiling?
> >>    Who will be your VP?
> >>    Should you choose Hillary Clinton as VP?
> >>    Will you accept public finance?
> >>    What issues is your campaign about?
> >>    Will you visit Iraq?
> >>    Will you debate McCain at a town hall?
> >>    What did you think of your competitor's [Clinton] speech?
> >>
> >>    Palin interview:
> >>    Do you have enough qualifications for the job you're seeking?
> >> Specifically have you visited    foreign countries and met foreign
> >> leaders?
> >>    Aren't you conceited to be seeking this high level job?
> >>    Questions about foreign policy
> >>    -territorial integrity of Georgia
> >>    -allowing Georgia and Ukraine to be members of NATO
> >>    -NATO treaty
> >>    -Iranian nuclear threat
> >>    -what to do if Israel attacks Iran
> >>    -Al Qaeda motivations
> >>    -the Bush Doctrine
> >>    -attacking terrorists harbored by Pakistan
> >>    Is America fighting a holy war? [misquoted Palin]
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:04 PM, JbTek <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I saw that last night.
> >>>  What a difference between Charlie Gibson & Gretta Van. I wonder if
> >>>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >>> would have treated Todd that way?
> >>> Jb
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:16 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Jb,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll sure as hell take Todd as "First Dude" over "Michelle, I was
> >>>> never proud of America until now".
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5MWk0V77ko
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe Charlie Daniels should have gone into politics.  His "Country
> >>>> Boy Will Survive" sure sounds like a good rally cry after all the
> >>>> "smart people" in Wall Street from the Ivy League outsmarted
> >>>> themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brad
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:41 AM, JbTek <j.bulfer at jbtek.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Like myself, many are looking right past McCain for a Palin
> >>>>>
> >> presidency.
> >>
> >>>>> Most know little about her but that doesn't matter to them. Kinda
> like
> >>>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>> Dems didn't care about the details in Obama.
> >>>>> She is the Republicans Obama.
> >>>>> My guess is a woman will be president before a black guy will.
> >>>>> Jb
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:41 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> You got it!! and the inverse, I'm sure, is why the Dems so despise
> >>>>>> McCain's pick.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Obama, who has been touting "change" picked a career Washington
> >>>>>> politician, he of "you cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts
> >>>>>> unless you have a slight Indian accent" fame, and he even declared
> he
> >>>>>> "wasn't joking". But, Biden really likes Obama, he even publicly
> >>>>>>
> >> stated
> >>
> >>>>>> that he was "the first mainstream African-American
> >>>>>> </wiki/African-American> who is articulate and bright and clean and
> a
> >>>>>> nice-looking guy."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yeah, REAL winner for change there...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On the other hand, McCain has always been a maverick Republican.
> >>>>>>
> >> Those
> >>
> >>>>>> Republicans that dislike him, or are ambivalent at best (and I am
> the
> >>>>>> latter group), feel that way because he takes many stances that are
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>>> the left of strong Republicans. While Palin would definitely be
> >>>>>> considered a "balance" (she's much more socially conservative than
> >>>>>>
> >> he),
> >>
> >>>>>> she certainly brings a new "format" of politician to the ticket.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, you folks keep crying out the current trend. We'll sympathize
> >>>>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>>>> you all the way to November.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jb wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The only reason you're thrilled with the Dems pick is it should be
> >>>>>>>
> >>> easy
> >>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> beat.
> >>>>>>> Obama blew his change platform with a Joe Biden pick. If he was
> >>>>>>>
> >> going
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>>> do
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> that he should have picked Hillary...that was stupid.
> >>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:22 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Not me. I'm THRILLED with who the Dems picked!!! On the other
> >>>>>>>>
> >> hand,
> >>
> >>> I
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> can certainly understand their distaste for McCain's choice. All
> >>>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>>>>>>> blustering about "she's not a good choice" aside, it's easy to
> >>>>>>>> understand why they dislike a 20 point change in women voters.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> JbTek wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Anyone the Dems pic, the Republicans hate....anyone the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> Republicans
> >>
> >>>>> pic,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> Dems hate.
> >>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter who he picked, it would be the same thing.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> It'll
> >>
> >>>>> never
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> work right that way.
> >>>>>>>>> It amazes me how both sides say the same thing about the other &
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> just
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> keep
> >>>>>>>>> on fighting.
> >>>>>>>>> Kinda like some of you on the list. You never get any where so
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> what's
> >>>
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> point?
> >>>>>>>>> I could go thru what I believe but I don't think anyone cares but
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> me.
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> I think some people just like to argue......I don't.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Jb
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:26 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think it's funny to watch someone debate her intent, when that
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> same
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> someone firmly backs the man infamous for his "it depends on
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>> meaning of the word 'is' is" comment.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> stan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Brad,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> As you have said over the years, we don't disagree on
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> everything
> >>
> >>> but
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> come
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> on, you have to admit that if you took 1,000 folks who heard
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> her
> >>
> >>>>> Bridge
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nowhere speech over and over and over again and asked them: did
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> she
> >>>
> >>>>> let
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> them
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> go away thinking she did Not take these ear mark dollars, 100%
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>>>> those
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> questioned would say she stood right up there and let us know
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> she
> >>
> >>>>> saved
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> money from coming out of our pockets.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Please, anyone coming to her defense, spare me that although
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> she
> >>
> >>>>> took
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> money she spent it more wisely or that she had no choice but to
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> take
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> money.  Don't befuddle the issue of her honesty.   She wanted
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> you
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> believe
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> what she wanted you to believe and she knew it and she made no
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> qualifying
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> remarks and kept repeating her fiction at every chance she
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> could
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>> without
> >>>>>>>>>>> even showing the wisdom of second thinking of what she was
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> saying.
> >>>
> >>>>> In
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> world, intent is the bottom line.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ben, Slim, and all you on the fencers, help on this
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> disingenuous
> >>
> >>>>> (that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> means
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> lying in my Bklyn district) speech review.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> ss
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:15 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stan,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tax revenues have risen, to say they haven't is the "big lie".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> The
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> lack of revenue isn't the problem, the growth of entitlement
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> programs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is the elephant in the room (feel free to make jokes about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> elephants
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> here ________ ). Even with the cost of the Iraq war and the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> endless
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> earmarks, "It's the Entitlements Stupid", to paraphrase Bubba
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> circa
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1992.  Anyone who thinks a partial privatization of SS is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> bad
> >>
> >>>>> idea
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> need only look around the country at the number of cities and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> municipalities that have retirement funds going bankrupt.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> Sometimes
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> reality really sucks but it is what it is. Even the Democratic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> party
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in Alaska was touting Palin's killing the "Bridge to Nowhere"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> on
> >>
> >>>>> their
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> website until last week when they got the marching orders to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> send
> >>>
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> webpage "down memory hole".  Find a new talking point.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now as to stem cell research, I'm 'fer' it, and as to litmus
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> tests,
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm 'agin' it! As to the Global Warming religion, I'm an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> agnostic
> >>>
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> most things associated with religion.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> We're down to the last 55 days of this beauty pageant we call
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> an
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> election and O'Bambi isn't doing a good job of handling the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> fact
> >>
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> he just lost the swimsuit competition. He's never won an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> election
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> against competition and so he's reverting back to his
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> 'raisins',
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago style politics.  Expect more elbows in the days to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> come.
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:59 AM, stan <stan at rhodes22.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you think they are cute and perky, wait 'til you've seen
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> John's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but if you want 8 more of the same tax theory, stem cell
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> thinking,
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> supreme
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> court litmus, global warming be damned, environmental
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> leanings,
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> privatizing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of ss, and the dumbing down of America so everyone believes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> her
> >>
> >>>>> lying
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not taking all the "Bridge to Nowhere" dollars from their
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> pockets,
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> she's
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> your man - even if she has breasts.   Gad, at this age, even
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> I
> >>
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> those.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ss
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: <R22RumRunner at aol.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:17 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Brad, now my turn:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In case your eyeglasses are a little foggy this morning, she
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>> has
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cute
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perky
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> breasts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rummy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> list
> >>
> >>> go
> >>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>> go
> >>>
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>>>>
> >> go
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >>>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Peter Thorn" <pthorn at nc.rr.com>
> >> To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:19:51 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >> The GPS can be set to provide an exact scale drawing of your travels.
>  This
> >> shows your tacking angles, changes possible due to windshifts, etc.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:48 PM
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >>
> >> Peter,
> >>
> >> Please run this past me again.  I'm not a sophisticated GPS user.
> >>
> >> BE
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Thorn wrote:
> >>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> If you want to see your tacking angles, set the GPS to "bread crumbs"
> >>>
> >> then
> >>
> >>> look at your tracks.   This is cold hard reality and the difference
> >>>
> >> between
> >>
> >>> paying attention and goofing off can be stark.  Compass isn't needed.
> >>>
> >>> PT
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Bill Effros
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:03 PM
> >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >>>
> >>> Lee,
> >>>
> >>> It is important for the pointing discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Few compasses are ever checked.  As soon as you check, you are stunned
> >>> by the deviation.
> >>>
> >>> If you are trying to determine how high you can point, and your compass
> >>> is off by 10 degrees in each direction (not uncommon) you really don't
> >>> have the slightest idea how high you can point, or where the true wind
> >>> is coming from.
> >>>
> >>> You spend a lot of time and effort adjusting sails before spending far
> >>> less time adjusting your compass.
> >>>
> >>> Sailing at night or in fog it is very important to be able to trust
> your
> >>> compass.  Becoming disoriented is amazing if it has never happened to
> >>> you.  You start to insist that the compass is wrong.  If you are not
> >>> sure the compass is right, you can easily believe it is wrong.
> >>>
> >>> A power boater went to the hospital last weekend by grounding not 300
> >>> yards from my boat.  It was low tide.  The rescue crew was able to walk
> >>> to his boat from "land".  He was using a GPS.  4 hours earlier he
> >>> wouldn't have totaled his boat.  He was going in the right direction,
> >>> but he was a few degrees off course.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> KUHN, LELAND wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Bill,
> >>>>
> >>>> "If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
> >>>> off, report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2."
> >>>>
> >>>> Just last week a guy at my marina with a big Morgan was complaining
> >>>> about needing to get his compass recalibrated.  I was shocked that
> >>>> magnetic compasses could be significantly inaccurate.  I was even more
> >>>> shocked that the calibration was much more expensive than the cost of
> my
> >>>> compass new, and I thought I had an expensive compass.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if my compass is accurate.  When it says 270 I feel like
> >>>> I'm going west.  If I were bluewatering it to Hawaii I'd probably want
> >>>> to ensure I'd be heading in the right direction, but accuracy isn't
> too
> >>>> important if you're just trying to maintain a straight tack to
> nowhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lee
> >>>> 1986 Rhodes22  At Ease
> >>>> Kent Island, MD
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Bill Effros [mailto:bill at effros.com]
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:42 AM
> >>>> To: R22 List
> >>>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Navigation 101 -- Chapter 1 -- Compasses
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd,
> >>>>
> >>>> Navigation is still one of my favorite topics.
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, let's start while most of us are still on the water.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is discussion today about pointing and 45 degrees and 110
> degrees.
> >>>>
> >>>> These are compass directions.
> >>>>
> >>>> How are these numbers derived by the writers?
> >>>>
> >>>> (Serious question -- want answers.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Throw out your GPS.  The GPS measures the direction the device has
> >>>> traveled, not the direction the boat is pointing.
> >>>>
> >>>> How are the writers determining true wind direction?
> >>>>
> >>>> How many compasses do you have on board.  (You must have at least 2.)
> >>>>
> >>>> Fluxgate compasses don't count -- they yield very precise wrong
> answers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Homework Assignment:
> >>>>
> >>>> Mount 2 magnetic compasses far enough away from large metal objects
> and
> >>>> electronics so they can swing freely.  (If one is hand bearing, that's
> >>>> fine, as long as you can read it in 5 degree increments while the
> >>>> compass is mounted in a stationary position.
> >>>>
> >>>> Point your boat so your main compass is at 0.
> >>>>
> >>>> Turn your other compass so it points to exactly 180.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now turn your boat so your main compass points to 90.  Your other
> >>>> compass should point to exactly 270.  Does it?
> >>>>
> >>>> Whether it does, or not, note the readings on both compasses.
> >>>>
> >>>> If, after taking a few different readings your compasses are wildly
> off,
> >>>> report your results here, and we will go to Chapter 2.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the readings remain almost 180 degrees in phase, no matter what
> >>>> direction you point, make a chart showing all compass readings at 5
> >>>> degree differences.
> >>>>
> >>>> True virgins can't be far behind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>> PS -- If anyone gets serious about this, it's a great opportunity to
> set
> >>>> and use multiple anchors.  If you set 4 and move lines from cleat to
> >>>> cleat, you can adjust the angle of your boat to the primary compass
> with
> >>>> extreme precision, while learning a lot about the setting qualities of
> >>>> anchors.  It doesn't matter if  an anchor fails to set properly -- you
> >>>> are testing the compass, not the anchor.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd Tavares wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bill, Good to see you back on the list.  Didn't you make us all a
> >>>>> promise?   I am still waiting. LOL
> >>>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/2005-April/022296.html
> >>>>> Todd T
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>   From: "Bill Effros"
> >>>>>   To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>   Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>   Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:05:34 -0400
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Elle,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I was hoping Slim would weigh in on your situation. He has has to
> >>>>>   deal
> >>>>>   with similar problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I don't use chain except on rode purchased before I stopped using
> >>>>>   chain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   You can't "set" chain. When it hits the bottom, it just lies there
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   a
> >>>>>   pool. It is exactly the same as dropping the chain into the R-22
> >>>>>   anchor
> >>>>>   locker. It forms a pyramid of chain with the unset anchor dangling
> >>>>>   from
> >>>>>   it on one side, or buried under it, and the rope rode dangling from
> >>>>>   it
> >>>>>   on the other.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I use floating anchor rode directly attached to the anchor. If you
> >>>>>   drop
> >>>>>   a penny overboard it's going to sink until it hits the bottom. If
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> you
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   drop a 2 1/2 lb aluminum anchor overboard, it will also sink until
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   hits the bottom.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   If you tie a floating rope to that aluminum anchor, you will see no
> >>>>>   rope
> >>>>>   on the surface of the water until the anchor hits the bottom, and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   excess rope exceeds the straight line angle from where you are
> >>>>>   deploying
> >>>>>   the anchor. At that point you start pulling in excess rope off the
> >>>>>   surface until the angle going into the water is roughly 45 degrees.
> >>>>>   Then just hold onto the line as the wind or your motor drives your
> >>>>>   boat,
> >>>>>   and a good anchor will set itself properly. Cleat the line, and you
> >>>>>   should not be able to move that anchor until you get almost
> directly
> >>>>>   above it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I always do this from the stern. I "fish" for the bottom, and "set"
> >>>>>   the
> >>>>>   anchor. Because there is only floating line between me and the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> anchor
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   I
> >>>>>   can "feel" what is going on, and I can see from floating line on
> the
> >>>>>   surface whether my anchor is truly "set" or if I am just "dragging"
> >>>>>   it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   It's a lot like fishing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Once set, I walk the line to the bow and cleat it to the bow cleat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   If leaves are truly a problem, and I don't know because I don't
> >>>>>   experience that problem when I anchor, I would use a kellet to
> bring
> >>>>>   the
> >>>>>   sharp lightweight anchor all the way to the bottom on the all rope
> >>>>>   rode. Then I would experiment with how far to withdraw the kellet
> in
> >>>>>   order to set the tines of the anchor most reliably. Then I would
> >>>>>   withdraw the kellet completely, and "feel" the set of the anchor in
> >>>>>   the
> >>>>>   way I normally do it. You don't have to "feel" the set many times
> >>>>>   before you know exactly what it is supposed to feel like when it is
> >>>>>   permanently set.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I've wasted a lot of time waiting to see if it would unset, and it
> >>>>>   never
> >>>>>   has.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I don't know of anyone who has tried the "floating the mushroom
> >>>>>   anchor
> >>>>>   into place" theory, but I think it would be fun to try. I know that
> >>>>>   mushroom anchor won't move once properly set, and I also know how
> to
> >>>>>   use
> >>>>>   a Rhodes 22 to move the anchor if I need to do so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Like me, I would guess your biggest problem in storm conditions is
> >>>>>   other
> >>>>>   boats, not your ability to keep your boat in a place where it can
> >>>>>   easily
> >>>>>   withstand the elements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Bill Effros
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   elle wrote:
> >>>>>   > HI, Bill, I was hoping that you would also weigh in on this
> >>>>>   > matter...would you give me your recommendation? Again, the bottm
> >>>>>   > is mud IF we can get through the leaves, and the cove is
> >>>>>   > protected; storm surge is often a factor but @20' of chain &
> >>>>>   > @200' of 5/16 rode hopefully is sufficient overkill...
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > Opinion?
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > Thanks, elle
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > We can't change the angle of the wind....but we can adjust our
> >>>>>   sails.
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic" (Lady in Red)
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Bill Effros wrote:
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >> From: Bill Effros
> >>>>>   >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>   >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>   >> Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 11:47 AM
> >>>>>   >> Peter,
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> What difference do think the weight of a boat implies for
> >>>>>   >> the size of the anchor?
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> I would imagine windage is the factor.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> No matter what they weigh, all boats float.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> If weight were the factor, the size of a battleship anchor
> >>>>>   >> in proportion to it's weight would be substantially less than
> the
> >>>>>   >> size anchor most people carry on their Rhodes 22s.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> Someone recently told me that if you take away wind and
> >>>>>   >> current, a 25 lb Fortress anchor will hold an aircraft carrier.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> I've never tried it, though.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> As I've often mentioned, a 2 1/2 lb Fortress Guardian
> >>>>>   >> is my go-to anchor. I set it from the stern, and walk it
> >>>>>   >> forward. Once properly set, it is extremely difficult to
> >>>>>   >> dislodge until you get
> >>>>>   >> almost directly above it. There is never enough windage on my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> boat
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   to
> >>>>>   >> deform the anchor, part the line, challenge the shackle.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> My boat is moored on a 300 lb mushroom anchor as are
> >>>>>   >> virtually all of the boats in the cove where I keep my boat.
> >>>>>   (There are
> >>>>>   >> hundreds.)
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> The cove has been hit by strong winds from time to time,
> >>>>>   >> but few move from their moorings. The biggest fear of damage is
> >>>>>   from
> >>>>>   >> other boats coming loose, and debris. The entire fleet swings on
> >>>>>   >> individual anchors. Anchoring
> >>>>>   >> bow and stern puts you broadside to the wind with enormous
> stress
> >>>>>   on the
> >>>>>   >> anchoring system if the wind is shifting. Mushroom anchors are
> >>>>>   just
> >>>>>   >> as strong in 360 degrees, and you expose your boat to the least
> >>>>>   stress.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> If I had the problem of moving my boat under storm
> >>>>>   >> conditions I would try to rig up an air bag on a mushroom anchor
> >>>>>   so I could
> >>>>>   >> tow it to the place I wanted to set my boat, release the air,
> and
> >>>>>   sit on
> >>>>>   >> the single mushroom.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> When your boat is floating freely and always facing the
> >>>>>   >> wind there is no chafing problem to speak of, and while the wind
> >>>>>   creates
> >>>>>   >> uncomfortable creaking in all of the boats, the mechanical
> stress
> >>>>>   on the
> >>>>>   >> components seems negligible. I put a canvas chafe guard on my
> bow
> >>>>>   >> line where it goes over the edge of the boat (no chock). I have
> >>>>>   not had
> >>>>>   >> to replace the chafe guard in 10 years of use. Most wind damage
> >>>>>   >> around here is done to boats on shore. The wind topples one into
> >>>>>   >> the next. I suspect my boat is far safer
> >>>>>   >> in the water than it is on land.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> Bill Effros
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >> Peter Thorn wrote:
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> elle,
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> Broad Creek in New Bern, where Blackbeard is located,
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> is the best hurricane
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> hole for miles around. When a surge is expected and
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> boats must leave their
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> docks, everybody around there seems to head for Broad
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> Creek. It's about 15
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> feet of water, then 10' of mud/muck bottom river
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> bottom and then hard clay
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> underneath, according to borings made for the seawall
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> engineering design at
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> our club.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> If a storm passes close by, the wind direction can
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> shift greatly during the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> storm. This adds a different challenge to anchoring.
> >>>>>   >> Some anchors are very
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> good at setting, like Delta plow, others are very good
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> at holding in mud,
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> like the Fortress with the 45 degree fluke settings.
> >>>>>   >> But, if broken loose
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> during a storm while the wind direction is changing, a
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> Fortress will more
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> easily drag and is more difficult to reset.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> Different people do different things. One popular
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> anchoring technique is
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> the Bahamian, using two anchors at 45-180 angles.
> >>>>>   >> Other experienced storm
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> survivors here have used two anchors in series to cope
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> with our special
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> bottom conditions. Usually, coming from the direction
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> of the boat, the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> first anchor is a Delta plow type with the usual nylon
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> rode and chain.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> Then, they add about 30' of stainless cable and
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> attach a Fortress or
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> Danforth type. The idea is the Delta plow will
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> quickly reset if the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> direction changes and slow down dragging long enough
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> for the Fortress to
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> also reset, dig in and hold on hard. A friend with a
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> Gulfstar 37 has used
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> this technique for ten years with great success in
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> Broad Creek. His boat is
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> heavy and I know he uses large sizes (not sure how
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> large), but I think the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> same technique would work for a 3000# R22 with smaller
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> ground tackle.
> >>>>>   >>> Fortunately for Raven, two days before Hannah arrived
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> I just hauled her
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> home. This is a wonderful advantage of a trailerable.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> But it think it's
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> always a good idea to be prepared for whatever the
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> wind gods send us.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> May all your storms go the other way,
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> PT
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>   >>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >>>>>   >>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> Of elle
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:21 PM
> >>>>>   >>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>>>   >>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> Well; what a coincidence.....anchoring is on my mind.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> It seems that when Hanna was deciding where to rest
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> her head, we decided to
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> anchor the boats (mine & my neighbor's ) in
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> the creek...which is a
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> well-protected hurrricane hole.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> The favored anchoring scheme is two anchors each set
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> at about 45 deg off the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> bow. I have the (way too light) Danforth-style which
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> comes with the boat &
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> another 21lb Danforth, 200' of rode & @
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> 8-10' of chain.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> Problem 1....how to anchor from the bow as the furling
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> mechanism is in the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> way if we go out straight from the bow cleat....or
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> have massive chafing if
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> we run the rode outside of the bow pulpit...boat will
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> then not be
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> head-to-wind.....
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> Problem 2...this creek has a thick layer of
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> detritus..mainly
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> leaves...coating the bottom....the heavy Danforth
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> would not set w/all the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> junk, so a new anchor is in my future.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> Anyone have any suggestions? I am looking at a Delta
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> as the CQR (my first
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> choice) is 'way too much $$$$$.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> We ended up securing one end of the boat to a forward
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> piling and the other
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> to a tree on shore.
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> elle
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> We can't change the angle of the wind....but we
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> can adjust our sails.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> 1992 Rhodes 22 Recyc '06 "WaterMusic"
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> (Lady in Red)
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Michael D. Weisner
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> wrote:
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>> From: Michael D. Weisner
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] anchoring
> >>>>>   >>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 6:27 PM
> >>>>>   >>>> Paul,
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> We must have beaten this topic to death several
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> times in
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> the past. A quick check of the nabble archives under "anchor
> >>>>>   >>>> locker" yielded:
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> http://www.nabble.com/anchor-locker---dumb-questions-to18156518.html#a18
> >>
> >>>> 1565
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> 18
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18071799.html#a18144554
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://www.nabble.com/Anchor-rode-spaghetti-to18135271.html#a18135271
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/New-Guy-Bill-D.-tp7060395p7069009.html
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Anchoring---Again-to5113633.html#a5113633
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> http://www.nabble.com/Go-To-Anchor-to2383036.html#a2383036
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> You get the idea. Most of us seem to use a
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> Rubbermaid
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> basket in the laz or under a cockpit seat for the stern
> anchor,
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> although I
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> prefer a bag hung on the stern rail. I still use the forward
> >>>>>   locker
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> for my bow
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> anchor rode storage. I cleat it to the central foredeck cleat
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> and pass
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> it through my bow chocks.
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> Mike
> >>>>>   >>>> s/v Shanghaid'd Summer ('81)
> >>>>>   >>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> From: "Paul Krawitz"
> >>>>>   >>>> Sent:
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> Sunday,
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> September 14, 2008 5:53 PM
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> How do you guys anchor?
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> The forepeak (tiny bow storage area) is an
> >>>>>   >>>> impractical way to store
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> rode and the opening is to small for my big
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> hands to
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> get in there.
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> I've resorted to storing the rode below
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> cockpit benches, in a
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> Rubbermaid container, and walking it forward
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> and
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> attaching it to the
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> Danforth anchor handing from the bow pulpit
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> when I
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> need to.
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> Where do you cleat it? The central bow cleat?
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>> I'm hoping someone has a better
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> suggestion.
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>> Paul K
> >>>>>   >>>>> "Clarity"
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> using the
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> mailing list go to
> >>>>>   >>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>>
> >>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >> the mailing
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>>> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>>
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> mailing list go to
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
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> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   >>
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> >>>>>   >>>
> >>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
> >>>>>   >> list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   >> __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >>
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   > __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
> >>>>>   > go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   > __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   >
> >>>>>   __________________________________________________
> >>>>>   To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> >>>>>   to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>>>   __________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any
> attachments,
> >>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>> for the sole use of the intended
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information.
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> >>
> >>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited.
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> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by
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> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >>>
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> >>
> >>> database 3446 (20080916) __________
> >>>
> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.eset.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> >> signature
> >> database 3446 (20080916) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Brad Haslett" <flybrad at gmail.com>
> >> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:32:46 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Community Organization
> >> Bill,
> >>
> >> Don't you think it's a bit unfair to only look at failed projects in
> >> The One's home state.  He's done good deeds in some of the other 57
> >> states and it shows in his recent polling numbers.
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> ---------------------------
> >>
> >> New Pennsylvania: Obama up by six!
> >>
> >> Old Mexico: Obama leading by four!
> >>
> >> West Carolina: Obama ahead by two (within the margin of error).
> >>
> >> Puerto Guam: Obama up big, 62-36 over McCain!
> >>
> >> Oklabama: Obama up by eight!
> >>
> >> Barryfornia: Obama has a commanding twelve-point lead!
> >>
> >> And in the heartland state of East Jesus, Obama is up over McCain by
> >> five points!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Brad,
> >>>
> >>> I think you underestimate Obama's community organizing accomplishments.
> >>>
> >>> The attached map shows projects sponsored by Barack Obama in his
> >>>
> >> district.
> >>
> >>> Bill Effros
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> Name: Rezmar Projects In foreclosure.jpg
> >>> Type: image/jpeg
> >>> Size: 246910 bytes
> >>> Desc: not available
> >>> Url :
> >>>
> >>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20080916/ecf58f28/attachment.jpg
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
> >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:41:22 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Community Organization
> >> Brad,
> >>
> >> How many of those are actual Obama gaffes?
> >>
> >> I still think it's amazing that President Bush will always have the
> >> "new-clear" issue hanging around his neck, but The One can talk about
> New
> >> Pennsylvania, and it goes virtually unnoticed by the press.
> >>
> >> In spite of what folks say about his oratory abilities, you take away
> >> Obama's script and teleprompter, he sounds like a bigger dufus that what
> >> President Bush sounds.
> >>
> >> As a matter of fact, the President seems to have the opposite problem,
> he
> >> stutters and mispronounces when reading prepared script, but does pretty
> >> well when he's talking off the cuff.
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad Haslett wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Bill,
> >>>
> >>> Don't you think it's a bit unfair to only look at failed projects in
> >>> The One's home state.  He's done good deeds in some of the other 57
> >>> states and it shows in his recent polling numbers.
> >>>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------
> >>>
> >>> New Pennsylvania: Obama up by six!
> >>>
> >>> Old Mexico: Obama leading by four!
> >>>
> >>> West Carolina: Obama ahead by two (within the margin of error).
> >>>
> >>> Puerto Guam: Obama up big, 62-36 over McCain!
> >>>
> >>> Oklabama: Obama up by eight!
> >>>
> >>> Barryfornia: Obama has a commanding twelve-point lead!
> >>>
> >>> And in the heartland state of East Jesus, Obama is up over McCain by
> >>> five points!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Bill Effros <bill at effros.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Brad,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think you underestimate Obama's community organizing
> accomplishments.
> >>>>
> >>>> The attached map shows projects sponsored by Barack Obama in his
> >>>> district.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Effros
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >>>> Name: Rezmar Projects In foreclosure.jpg
> >>>> Type: image/jpeg
> >>>> Size: 246910 bytes
> >>>> Desc: not available
> >>>> Url :
> >>>>
> http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20080916/ecf58f28/attachment.jpg
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>>> __________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >>> __________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Ben Cittadino <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] For Ed, from Maine - political
> >>
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/opinion/16brooks.html?hp
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert;
> >>
> >> The above link is to today's NY Times column by David Brooks, who you
> may
> >> recognize as the William F. Buckley protege' and conservative
> commentator.
> >> It concisely sets out the problem with Palin that those of us who
> represent
> >> the dying breed of "Rockefeller Republicans" (the political philosophy
> of
> >> your Susan Collins and Olympia Snow) have.
> >>
> >> As the Party falls away to the anti-intellectual wackos and
> fundamentalist
> >> nut cases (and they know who they are) we can only hope that the
> >> overwhelming support of the new politics of hope among the youth (under
> 40)
> >> folks will bode better for the future.
> >>
> >> Even though I hail from the Great State of New Jersey, home of John
> >> Basilone
> >>
> ...
>
> [Message clipped]