[Rhodes22-list] thank you michael
cowie
ccowie at cowieassociates.com
Sun Aug 2 19:28:30 EDT 2009
Michael:
Thanks for posting your reply, well said. And I appreciate someone willing
to admit there spelling is as bad as mine.
MichaelMeltzer wrote:
>
> Art it is time to simply stop. Stop Now.
>
> I never have had to get on someone's case about using this list for
> commercial uses, until his time.
>
> * you notice that stan does NOT soloatied on this list. And show good
> taste about it when he does post
> * you notice that there is no spam on the list, the filter kill about 40
> commercial posts a day, a good chuck from "other boat Things"
> * Ric has been moving Graphics for years but you never know it unless you
> ask him.
> * people sell boat have been doing for years, but it "one post".
> * when Bill and Pamela opened their canvas shop they never soloatied on
> the list.
>
> All the above examples have shown good taste about it, Art you are way
> over the line. Stop any posts about your commercial venture. Please answer
> any normal list traffic(including specialized questions about canvas) but
> unless it a direct question "Art can you make this for me", I real do not
> what to hear about boat canvas work you are doing or looking like you are
> "back handing" the question that you can generate work. (that includes
> privately taking people email address and pumping them, they MUST approach
> you first)
>
> Sorry to be so direct, but you simply do not get the scuttle message. Open
> a loft at your local marine, pay for show space, place fliers all over the
> place, make a "YouTube" with a vial message, think outside the box all you
> what. But unless you want to start paying me and John (10-20% of the gross
> for marketing sounds right. You have no god given right to market here. If
> you done right by people let them recommend you. But not you pushing
> it!!!!!!!!
>
> On a slightly different subject, Like Others have noted, Stan has declined
> your help and I cannot think other than you like insulting him by your
> actions or I go back you my original premious that "you simple do not get
> it and this is a charter flaw" (which is supported by people who meet
> you), Sorry that you have this problem. If it make you feel any better
> spelling has been my lifelong problem.
>
>
> -mjm
>
> -PS I do not need any reply or any "justification" just simple stop it and
> control your actions, You have been good with boating advice and helpful
> but by the same token you also know how I will play it if pushed any
> farther.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
> Czerwonky
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Like Deena, did you say Price?
>
> Deena,
>
> Please help me understand. Who has lowered what price on what?
>
> If you refer to some lower price I can sell for, I have to establish
> costing on what is possible. I never established the Boomroom at $1,500
> based, for example, on Stan's previous price of ~$2,000. My gosh, that
> was my mission from our skippers, they were screaming about the cost, and
> I responded with better solutions over a three month period in the Winter
> of '06. Dave Bradley can relate the endless emails we exchanged to get it
> just like the fleet wanted it! Back then I actually charged Dave 1,100,
> not the current price, and additionally travelled to Conn to help install
> it, mileage costs only. Not a shabby commitment, not at all. I recall
> that even Stan was happy then. I will always meet or exceed your
> expectations, to quote Steven Covey.
>
> I think it unfair to our skippers if I were to set any product cost based
> on $100 or $200 or $500 below some competitor offering. I just will not
> do it! It is mandatory that my quality be the best available, and that
> will be the only and certain result, not just some fuzzy target. Among my
> fleetmates there is no doubt that I have committed to quality canvas
> products.
>
> Now, back to the bimini project. Call me on the phone at any point, 404
> 295-7777.
>
> Have a nice week. BTW, did your husband ever cross paths with "the Brute"
> when he was on active duty?
>
> R,
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>Sent: Aug 1, 2009 7:19 AM
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Promos
>>
>>
>>
>>Art,
>>
>>I like the idea of the pens the best. They wouldn't be as expensive to
obtain, and are to maintain a supply and restock as needed. At the same
time it wouldn't give the appearance of a diminished product. Having been a
retail store manager years ago I am a firm believer in not reducing the
price of a high quality product. People tended then not to purchase it and
would many times wait until they thought it might go on sale. They also
felt if you lowered the price maybe it wasn't so great after all. I just
got my assessment from our association. They sent everyone a letter
informing us they were raising our yearly fee 5% due to the economy. We
also got a price hike with our utilities. My husband did not get a 5% raise
to keep up with the pace. Alot of people just are cutting back. My Rhodes
is kept at the quantico marina. We don't see very many people going out on
their motor boats this year.
>>
>>
>>
>>Deena
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:41:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1933, Issue 4
>>
>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Leland)
>> 2. Re: Rhodes Promotions (R22RumRunner at aol.com)
>> 3. Re: Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway (Hank)
>> 4. Re: Rhodes Crew Gear (BenCittadino)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Message-ID: <24764138.post at talk.nabble.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>>
>>David,
>>
>>Everything I've read indicates that you are right. Many of the times that
>>I've measured the effects of the centerboard I've noticed more than a ten
>>degree improvement into the wind. However, every time I put the board
down
>>I slow down. Every time I raise the board I speed up.
>>
>>Hopefully this picture will come through:
>>
>>
>>http://www.nabble.com/file/p24764138/Sail%2BSpeed.ppt Sail+Speed.ppt
>>
>>Let's assume you're sailing from point A to B with the board up. Doesn't
>>matter how much you drift because you're still going from point A to B.
If
>>you put the board down you can sail more into the wind and you are able to
>>sail from point A to C. To get to point B you would then need to sail
from
>>point C to A. Even if you weren't sailing slower with the board down,
>>wouldn't it take you longer to go from point A to C to B than sailing
>>directly from point A to B?
>>
>>Am I missing something?
>>
>>Unless I want to go more into the wind, it still seems like the best
reason
>>to put the board down is to knock the barnacles off.
>>
>>Lee
>>
>>
>>Yesterday I got the chance to sail in 5-10 kt wind and relatively flat
>>water. I set the boat up on a beam reach (apparent wind 90 degreees).
The
>>course was was 060 M by my steering compass. We were able to do about
>>.5 - 4 kts SOG by the GPS.
>>
>>With the board down our COG (Course over ground) was 055-057 M
>>With the board up out COG was 045-048 M
>>
>>Although my steering compass is not compensated and thus has unknown
>>deviation, since it was held steady at 060 the deviation has no importance
>>here. Lowering the board reduced leeway by about 10 degrees. Lowering
the
>>board had no observed effect on SOG although wind variation could have
>>hidden a small effect. Based on these results I see no reason to sail
with
>>the board up unless in very thin water and one very good reason to sail
with
>>it down.
>>
>>David Walker
>>--
>>View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24764138.html
>>Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:03:21 EDT
>>From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Message-ID: <c60.4aa50792.37a4e049 at aol.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>>Michael,
>>
>>
>>Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different
>>computer. I will send it to you later.
>>
>>Rummy
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>>
>>Is the rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you remember or
>>one else?
>>
>>-mjm
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
Czerwonky
>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23 PM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>
>>Deena,
>>
>>Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using, would
>>make sense? We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>
>>I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual sailcloth and
>>was embroidered. Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13. Maybe an
>>embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a hanger.
>>There must be soms scrap around the GB facility. " You have a small part
of
>>the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months." Let's stretch our
>>imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>
>>Art
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my Rhodes" )On
one
>>side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>
>>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>
>>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>>Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 1
>>>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>>From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I needed
a
>>>fast solution.
>>>
>>>I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil ("poison
>>>free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed to
>>work.
>>>The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that were home
>>>when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>
>>>Jim Connolly
>>>s/v Inisheer
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>>To: Rhodes 22
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>
>>>Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people responded too
>>>with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>
>>>1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>>Solution -
>>>WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things.
>>Before
>>>raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex, VHF
>>>antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>>later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I didn't
spray,
>>so
>>>we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or can't)
>>>start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>
>>>2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>>Solution -
>>>clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of drier
>>>sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides. No
wasp
>>>nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp activity
>>>now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a cheap and
>>>effective control.
>>>
>>>Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming aboard
>>from
>>>shore....
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>John Lock
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 2
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>><16092871.1248874303875.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>Welcome aboard the list and your involvement. This fleet is strong for
>>the mix of its skippers as well an exceptional boat. If you can come to
the
>>show you'll have a rather rare opportunity to meet many of them as we
have
>>a get-together in a nearby restaurant, I can't remember what day that
will
>>be this year - maybe we should take a poll. C'mon down and enjoy! You
>>will also see one of the most exceptional sailboat displays in the
country.
>>Lee may have a handle on what is cooking locally, or Mary Lou and Fred
may
>>know. We have alot of skippers in the North Chesapeake environs, let's
>>show the flag. BTW, is there an R22 burgee?
>>>
>>>Another option we could use in helping GB is to followup on inquiries on
>>the Rhodes from shows, calls, or curious prospects we may meet as our
>>marinas. If local owners are informed about such prospects from Stan or
other
>>owners, they could be invited out on a sail or into a conversation about
our
>>boat, maybe about their boat and/or sailing interests. We get random
>>requests from wannabes, maybe a more proactive initiative on our part,
done
>>tastefully, would develop into prospects for Stan. He can suggest names,
>>approach, interests selectively to get the ball/tide rolling. A passive
>>approach will not enhance sales prospects for GB.
>>>
>>>I share your past interest in the Mariner (#1607) and the O'Day boats
>>(222). I haven't seen much racing interest in our skippers, but welcome
>>correction if it is due. Involvement in the racing is alot of fun. Stan
>>suggested a strictly racing R22 a few years ago, maybe to be revived.
Are you
>>IMF (probably) or Conventional? What size Genny? Have you raced out of
>>Brant Beach, or is it mostly a cruising venue? Which motor have you
preferred?
>>
>>>
>>>We welcome your involvement, John, and look forward to your reply.
>>>
>>>Art
>>>s/v Mary Jane
>>>Hartwell and St Pete
>>>
>>>
>>>--Original Message-----
>>>>From: John <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>Sent: Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Fw: general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "John" <johnrowland at optonline.net>
>>>>To: <rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have submitted one or two messages to the list, but would like to
get
>>>>>more involved. I purchased a 1989 Rhodes22 about 1 year ago. I have
>>raced
>>>>>Mariners years ago, owned a few O'Days, and never found a boat that I
>>enjoy
>>>>>more than this one. Heaven forbid General Boats has problems. There
>>is no
>>>>>owner loyalty, or construction quality (or--even more
>>important--customer
>>>>>service) that compares with this company. While I probably cannot
>>attend
>>>>>the Annapolis Show, I need to know what I (and other loyal owners) can
>>do
>>>>>to keep this company strong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been amazed at the discussions on this list (with the
>>>>> exception
>>of
>>>>> the political issues regarding the last election). My goodness,
>>>>> where
>>>>> else can I learn about how to sail more effectively and fix whatever
>>>>> problems I have on the boat. I do not call a customer service number
>>that
>>>>> keeps me on hold for hours--I talk to the owner of the company!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not get involved in discussions regarding royalties, but do
>>think
>>>>> that each of us owes Stan some support in keeping this boat alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am actually in a slip next to a Hunter 40, and I am happier with
>>this
>>>>> boat.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read a lot of e-mails from individuals who offer suggestions about
>>other
>>>>> members issues and questions. What better support canone get than
>>this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I keep the boat at a slip at the Brant Beach Yacht Club in Brant
>>Beach,
>>>>> New Jersey and look forward to meeting other owners in the area.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rick" <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> $1.97
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>> czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good idea, buddy! Somehow to add a unique personal touch. I would
>>add,
>>>>>>> however, that Mary Lou really does not need to dance on table tops
>>at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Annapolis show. Fred, Pleassse!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the blazers, but, as we are in shoestring mode, what
>>about
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Hanes T-shirt, and of course, hospitality hot dogs with lots of
>>mustard
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> relish. Seriously, I embroidered some nice looking T-shirts for
>>>>>>> the
>>'07
>>>>>>> show, different color each day, some were 'Name, and rhodes22.com',
>>and
>>>>>>> some were 'name, boomroom, rhodes22.com', each comma'd section
>>>>>>> above
>>the
>>>>>>> other. They were noticed by our visitors, never a comment or
>>compliment
>>>>>>> otherwise. You might have to get used to it... rhoadies are tough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's gel some more ideas for Stan to use. At least it engages the
>>>>>>> imagination of the smart cookies in our magnificent Rhodes fleet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No commissions or royalty this time either, guys. What do you
>>charge,
>>>>>>> Rick?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> s/v Mary Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 2:00 PM
>>>>>>> >To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's dilema
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Art,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Using owners at shows sounds like a good idea. Carver has success
>>with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >at the Cleveland show, dressing everyone up the same way in blue
>>>>>>> >blazers.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >I doubt any mass media advertising would have payback. Since all
>>the
>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>> >sailing magazines have been pushing for so long the Catalina wave
>>that
>>>>>>> >you
>>>>>>> >start at 22 feet and buy up from there, a GBI ad would be swamped.
>>>>>>> >Maybe
>>>>>>> >direct mail to long-time owners on state and Coast Guard sailboat
>>>>>>> >registration lists, pushing the R22 as a quality downsize option?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Rick
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Arthur H. Czerwonky <
>>>>>>> >czerwonky at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> John, Rob,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> You may recall that Stan proposed a stripped down version, call
>>it a
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>> >> model, on the list a few years ago, and although I expressed
>>interest
>>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>>> >> this new boat option to him, maybe others too, no further
>>information
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> >> provided to my knowledge. Back at that time Stan expressed his
>>>>>>> >> ability
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> produce, and now maybe he will further reconsider and tell us
>>more
>>>>>>> >> about
>>>>>>> >> what he had in mind. I still am interested, speaking for myself
>>as a
>>>>>>> >> potential buyer. I will watch for any response. Did anyone get
>>>>>>> detailed
>>>>>>> >> information on this boat?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I have suggested the value of baseline ad exposure. If nothing
>>else,
>>>>>>> >> targeted reinforcement to the boat show displays that are so
>>>>>>> >> important.
>>>>>>> >> Maybe followup visits by experienced skippers. I have been
>>>>>>> told
>>by
>>>>>>> >> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> our newer skippers that my 'hot dog hospitality' aboard Mary
>>>>>>> Jane
>>at
>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>> '07
>>>>>>> >> show tipped the sale toward his boat purchase with him and his
>>wife.
>>>>>>> BTW,
>>>>>>> >> no commission provided or requested. The presence of skippers
>>>>>>> at
>>the
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>> >> is valuable - a third party evaluation of their own boat, and
>>with
>>>>>>> >> 'no
>>>>>>> axe
>>>>>>> >> to grind'. Consider it for yourself in support of Stan, as I
>>>>>>> did
>>
>>>>>>> >> twice.
>>>>>>> >> You would have one very positive impression of how GB and a
>>huge
>>>>>>> >> number
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> other boat makers reach their customers. Our skippers who are
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>> >> give demos, whether at shows or not, are such valuable
>>ambassadors
>>>>>>> >> for
>>>>>>> GB.
>>>>>>> >> Having done it a number of times, it is really fun as well as
>>being
>>>>>>> >> productive. Try it, you'll like it! Let's be specific - Can
>>some of
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> >> skipper demos at Annapoli!
>>>>>>> >> s or St Pete or elsewhere?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Cutting to the chase, who has some real connections to options
>>and
>>>>>>> selling
>>>>>>> >> /advertising connections that could help get Stan and GB out of
>>this
>>>>>>> 'black
>>>>>>> >> hole' that the company appears to be in? It could be just a few
>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>> >> levers to pull that would enable better results, even in our
>>current
>>>>>>> puuuny
>>>>>>> >> economy. Who is willing to pen letters of endorsement to
>>>>>>> prospects/suspects
>>>>>>> >> that could tip the scales, one by one. Time to get the horses
>>out
>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> barn, guys.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Like Mark Twain or someone else once said, let's get the P in
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> >> Pot!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Respectfully,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Art
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >> >From: John Shulick <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> >> >Sent: Jul 28, 2009 11:02 AM
>>>>>>> >> >To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>(continued)
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Rob,
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Yep that pretty much covers it. Now what would the price point
>>be
>>>>>>> >> >for
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >boat? I have the origional literature that came with my 71 and
>>you
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> >> >see that show package special price!!!
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >John S.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >Rob Lowe wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Drop the IMF, ditch the head, the water tank, the fancy motor
>>>>>>> >> >> lift,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >> re-model the interior? Now you have my 1976 boat! I do have
>>>>>>> >> >> battery
>>>>>>> >> >> though. - rob
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >> >> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John
>>>>>>> Shulick
>>>>>>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:52 AM
>>>>>>> >> >> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>(continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick,
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> I see your point clearly on the subject but I also see Davids
>>idea
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >> options to increase sales. How about dropping the IMF, ditch
>>the
>>>>>>> head,
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >> on board water tank, the batteries, the fancy motor lift,
>>re-model
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> interior and selling it as a "sport model" My wife and I live
>>on
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat
>>>>>>> >> >> almost every weekend and find a porta potty and crank lights
>>>>>>> sufficient.
>>>>>>> >> >> Being a camper before a sailor I have found the R22 to be a
>>first
>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>> >> >> floating campground without the pain of hiking in. I also
>>>>>>> have
>>had
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> perverse pleasure one weekend of sailing rings around a
>>macgregor
>>>>>>> >> >> 26
>>>>>>> >> >> using
>>>>>>> >> >> it like a no wake buoy as the kids pleaded at their father to
>>make
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> mac
>>>>>>> >> >> go faster. Racer/Cruiser is more fun than Cruiser/Racer. Even
>>if
>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>> >> >> racing its fun to be faster.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Respectfully submitted,
>>>>>>> >> >> John Shulick
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> Rick-139 wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> David,
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> I hate to be the wet blanket again. But racing sailboats is
>>a
>>>>>>> >> >>> whole
>>>>>>> >> >>> 'nother
>>>>>>> >> >>> market. The key to convincing a customer to buy a sailboat
>>for
>>>>>>> racing
>>>>>>> >> >> is
>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>> convince him or her that they will have lots of other
>>sailboats
>>>>>>> >> >>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> race
>>>>>>> >> >>> against.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> In the one design game, it involves high volume production
>>and a
>>>>>>> >> >>> distribution system that can execute geographically
>>concentrated
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>> support. J Boats has been successful doing that in the
>>>>>>> Great
>>>>>>> >> >>> Lakes
>>>>>>> >> >> with
>>>>>>> >> >>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>> J 22 and other longer models. Plus, J Boats has a
>>>>>>> respectable
>>
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >>> maintaining one design integrity.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Of course, there's always PHRF racing. But how many 20 - 25
>>foot
>>>>>>> >> >> cruising
>>>>>>> >> >>> sailboat owners are left with an interest in racing?
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Unlike 30 years ago, most people today who buy cruising or
>>day
>>>>>>> sailing
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats
>>>>>>> >> >>> in the low 20's length are first timers. From there, they
>>either
>>>>>>> drop
>>>>>>> >> >> out
>>>>>>> >> >>> or they move to larger boats more popular for cruising,
>>racing or
>>>>>>> >> >> both.
>>>>>>> >> >>> Catalina and Hunter have turned the market into that by
>>making
>>>>>>> >> >>> cheap
>>>>>>> >> >>> starter
>>>>>>> >> >>> boats people can easily abandon for yachts. Stan's main
>>problem
>>>>>>> >> >>> is
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> >> >> now
>>>>>>> >> >>> has a product that goes against the prevailing mindset that
>>has
>>>>>>> >> >> evolved
>>>>>>> >> >>> for
>>>>>>> >> >>> his market.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Did you read the article "The Little Boat that Could" in
>>August
>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >> >>> Sailing? The title itself is a reflection of that mindset.
>>And
>>>>>>> >> >> despite
>>>>>>> >> >>> all
>>>>>>> >> >>> kinds of compliments about the R22, the piece ends with:
>>"More
>>>>>>> >> >> important,
>>>>>>> >> >>> where does one get a new tiller for a Rhodes 22?" That's
>>some
>>>>>>> insult
>>>>>>> >> >> to a
>>>>>>> >> >>> builder who has admirably supported his product for decades.
>>But
>>>>>>> >> >> again,
>>>>>>> >> >>> that's part of the same mindset.
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> Rick
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, David Culp
>>>>>>> <dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> What I am saying is that this boat is unique and I can't go
>>down
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> local boatyard and get some of the major parts that I
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> >> >>>> need.
>>>>>>> >> >> Also,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> can't send an email or make a phone call to the guy who
>>built
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat at
>>>>>>> >> >>>> most places and expect a response. That's probably worth
>>>>>>> >> >>>> something
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> keep
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the operation rolling as long as Stan does his part. I
>>don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> think
>>>>>>> >> >> you
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to pay royalty/loyalty if you don't get anything for
>>it.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> If
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> group
>>>>>>> >> >>>> feels we are getting something worth paying for, then I'm
>>just
>>>>>>> >> >> suggesting
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> small stipend annually to Stan which if everyone
>>participates
>>>>>>> >> >>>> might
>>>>>>> >> >> be a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> better solution then a percentage up front facing new
>>owners for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> loyalty/royalty. The 5% on the seller side will figure
>>>>>>> into
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> it gets the new owner out of any obligation to pay a
>>>>>>> royalty/loyalty
>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>> >> >>>> front for two years. Then, continued association
>>>>>>> membership
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >> require
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the annual dues.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Imagine if you bought a Ford or Chevy used and then were
>>asked
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> send a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> 5%
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee to the factory. Nobody would... but this is not a
>>>>>>> Ford
>>or
>>>>>>> Chevy.
>>>>>>> >> >> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> figure some type of ongoing support is probably reasonable
>>as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> long
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> get
>>>>>>> >> >>>> good owner support and parts availability. For example, if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>> >> >> comes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> along and hits my rudder in the slip and I need a new one,
>>there
>>>>>>> >> >> ought to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a spare waiting at the factory to ship out. If someone
>>blows a
>>>>>>> sail
>>>>>>> >> >>>> out,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> there should be one ready to ship and the right color too.
>>I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> don't
>>>>>>> >> >> know
>>>>>>> >> >>>> if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> this is the case at GBI because spare parts mean overhead
>>and I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> know
>>>>>>> >> >>>> how much overhead Stan is willing to carry. Maybe parts
>>for
>>>>>>> >> >> non-members
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ought to carry a premium that members don't have to pay-so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> another
>>>>>>> >> >> added
>>>>>>> >> >>>> incentive to be one of the family.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I hear what you are saying about the market. Long term,
>>owners
>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>> >> >> not
>>>>>>> >> >>>> going to be the ones to keep GBI afloat. You have got to
>>get
>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>> >> >>>> customers
>>>>>>> >> >>>> through the door. There have been a lot of good
>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>> >> >>>> given
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> lot
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of experienced people on the list. My experiences with
>>family
>>>>>>> >> >>>> run
>>>>>>> >> >>>> businesses are that we are very happy to take your money
>>>>>>> but
>>you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> >> >> keep
>>>>>>> >> >>>> your advice to yourself. However, Stan seems open to some
>>>>>>> >> >> suggestions.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Stan has an excellent product, more people need to know
>>about it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> someone
>>>>>>> >> >>>> has mentioned. A new boat is becoming cost prohibitive for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> most,
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> recycling is a good second market but I think you need a
>>"less
>>>>>>> >> >> frills"
>>>>>>> >> >>>> model
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to get younger couples through the doors. You would have
>>>>>>> to
>>be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> build it with the same quality, using the same molds at an
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> point and I don't know if that is possible. I thought
>>>>>>> maybe
>>a
>>>>>>> >> >> stripped
>>>>>>> >> >>>> down
>>>>>>> >> >>>> racing version might be a solution. Racers don't need
>>>>>>> much
>>down
>>>>>>> >> >> below
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will pay for quality above. The Rhodes is faster then a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Catalina
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> being
>>>>>>> >> >>>> with and that would appeal to a lot of people.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> David
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:28:36 -0400
>>>>>>> >> >>>> From: Rick <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>>>>>> >> >>>> (continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> <52e9a140907261428v6feebf53l4e923711b987ec30 at mail.gmail.com>
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> David,
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can
>>give
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> home
>>>>>>> >> >>>> phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk
>>to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> >> >> any
>>>>>>> >> >>>> time." Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> subsequently
>>>>>>> >> >> buy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> many
>>>>>>> >> >>>> things from Stan.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive
>>offering in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats? I
>>>>>>> think
>>it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >> just
>>>>>>> >> >>>> turn customers toward high volume boats where technical
>>>>>>> >> >>>> information
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> spare parts are readily available.
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rick
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp
>><dculp at hsbtx.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Stan:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Thank you for your insight into the business. I dare say
>>that
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > sailboat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory;
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > factory is even still in business that is.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program
>>concerning
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> Rhodes.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> My
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > experience in boat ownership over the years is that a
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchaser
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > always spends the maximum funds set aside for the
>>purchase.
>>>>>>> Either
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>> >> >> owner
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > needs.
>>>>>>> >> >> And we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> all
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > know that used boats need something all the time.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from
>>a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new
>>>>>>> >> >> owner 5
>>>>>>> >> >>>> %
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > spent
>>>>>>> >> >> more
>>>>>>> >> >>>> money
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then they intended to begin with. The Rhodes 22 is the
>>top of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> scale
>>>>>>> >> >>>> in
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > 22' boats and used prices are not cheap. We see it all
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list... Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> purchase
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list
>>either
>>>>>>> saving
>>>>>>> >> >> up
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale
>>whereby
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > they
>>>>>>> >> >>>> promptly
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > go
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > off-list and complete the transaction.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for
>>$
>>>>>>> 200.00
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> cover
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not
>>>>>>> 5%
>>of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > paid. In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical
>>support
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > received as a member of the list from the owners and from
>>>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> That
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the
>>>>>>> beginning.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> This
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating
>>>>>>> world.
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I propose and this will make some people on this list
>>unhappy,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>> >> >> fact,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > very
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.
>>For
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > that
>>>>>>> >> >> annual
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you have got to provide something however. Which is
>>another
>>>>>>> >> >> problem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> with
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they
>>are
>>>>>>> >> >> getting
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > something for their money. In this case, for the annual
>>>>>>> >> >> association
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fee:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Admission to the list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Technical support either from members or the factory
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that
>>is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > kept
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> date
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what
>>we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > are
>>>>>>> >> >> doing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > already. Maybe you could come up with some member
>>specials on
>>>>>>> >> >> pricing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> from
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional
>>article
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> only
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > members would get. I don't want to burden you with a
>>bunch of
>>>>>>> >> >> extra
>>>>>>> >> >>>> work,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but there needs to be something unique about membership.
>>In
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > this
>>>>>>> >> >> way,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > new owner would feel they are getting something and it
>>would
>>>>>>> >> >> generate
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > revenue for you over the longer term. As part of the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > membership,
>>>>>>> >> >> if we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell,
>>then I
>>>>>>> >> >> don't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate
>>sell
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> boat.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I'll
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > even stipulate it in my will. I figure if I owe a
>>"loyalty
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fee",
>>>>>>> >> >> it is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > probably to the list members who have taken their time
>>and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > been
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> helpful
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > over the years. If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep
>>GBI
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > in
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > then that helps them and you. As a seller, if I pay 5%
>>then
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> gets my
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > buyer on the list free for two years. Then he/she can do
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> responsible
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > The other situation which started the discussion in the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > beginning
>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> do
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > with after-market products or other parts unique to the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has an after-market item to sell to the list which is
>>unique
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Rhodes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale,
>>then
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > he/she
>>>>>>> >> >> goes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > through you. They can advertise it and discuss it; but
>>>>>>> I
>>buy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> from
>>>>>>> >> >>>> you
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > after you have added your mark up or it cannot be
>>advertised
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > member's
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list by another member or by a third party. Simple as
>>that.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to
>>me.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Obviously,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list membership information is kept proprietary to
>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > direct
>>>>>>> >> >>>> marketing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > by a third party. If a member tries to go behind your
>>back...
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we
>>>>>>> >> >> can
>>>>>>> >> >>>> take
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > care of that. If something comes up for sale on the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > open-market
>>>>>>> >> >> that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> is
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then
>>that
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Right now MJM is administering the list. I think he or
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > whomever
>>>>>>> >> >> takes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> on
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > those duties gets their membership free.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement
>>and if
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> is of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > interest, let us know what you think the annual
>>>>>>> membership
>>fee
>>>>>>> >> >> should
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > For everyone else, let the flaming begin.... But just
>>keep in
>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>> >> >>>> what
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purpose is here. Trying to come up with something
>>palatable
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >> help
>>>>>>> >> >>>> GBI
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > now
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and us in the long run.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > David
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PS:
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Other thoughts: The Rhodes 22 website is "technically"
>>one of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> >> best
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.
>>However,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> needs
>>>>>>> >> >>>> some
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > polish to be a more effective marketing tool. More
>>timely
>>>>>>> >> >> information
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of
>>used
>>>>>>> boats
>>>>>>> >> >>>> comes
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > mind since new boat sales are down. Also, have you ever
>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>> >> >> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> new
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "entry level" boat without all the bells and whistles
>>which
>>>>>>> >> >> someone
>>>>>>> >> >>>> could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > purchase at a bit lower price? You've talked about a
>>racer
>>>>>>> before.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > you come up with something without having to have new
>>>>>>> >> >> molds-marketed as
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "Sport" Rhodes 22? Lower the interior weight, put a
>>standard
>>>>>>> mast
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > racing sails on it and a spinaker. Catalina has a
>>>>>>> "sport
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > model"
>>>>>>> >> >> and it
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > does
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > pretty well I think. Just some ideas I have batted
>>around. dc
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint
>>(continued)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list"
>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the
>>use
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of
>>>>>>> >> >> your
>>>>>>> >> >>>> forum
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We want to thank those that take issue with our position
>>but
>>>>>>> >> >> attempt to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > evenhanded. (If academically interested, we can provide
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > exhibits
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of
>>thing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > and
>>>>>>> >> >> remain
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > silent - in our younger days we probably would have done
>>the
>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>> >> >> It
>>>>>>> >> >>>> was
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of
>>"never
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > again"
>>>>>>> >> >> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> took
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > on anyone who wronged us: A policeman. A lawyer. a
>>station
>>>>>>> wagon
>>>>>>> >> >>>> full
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > corporation
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > docketing at the US Supreme Court. We prevailed in all
>>these
>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>> >> >> se
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > actions simply because we do not complain unless the
>>>>>>> facts
>>and
>>>>>>> >> >> logic
>>>>>>> >> >>>> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solidly on our side - but we digress.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >> logical
>>>>>>> >> >>>> side
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of our position and offered suggestions.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program: Its
>>reasoning
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>> >> >> so
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent. Those
>>thinking
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > us
>>>>>>> >> >> crazy
>>>>>>> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just
>>one
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > day.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many
>>segments of
>>>>>>> >> >> industry
>>>>>>> >> >>>> who
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > have already worked out such support programs, yet these
>>>>>>> dissenters
>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which
>>>>>>> industries
>>>>>>> >> >>>> should
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > not be entitled to residuals on their efforts. Those in
>>this
>>>>>>> >> >> group
>>>>>>> >> >>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > but to request and we will expand on the good sense of
>>this
>>>>>>> >> >> program.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> It
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > "You
>>>>>>> >> >> must
>>>>>>> >> >>>> be
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List"
>>family,
>>>>>>> seeing
>>>>>>> >> >> the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > light and converting.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > having
>>>>>>> >> >>>> others
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not
>>>>>>> resolved,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> will
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > come home to bite us all. ( When I walked out of the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > hallowed
>>>>>>> >> >> halls
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ole
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not
>>stand
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the
>>>>>>> >> >> ethics
>>>>>>> >> >>>> I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory. But it
>>was
>>>>>>> >> >>>> pre-ordained;
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > I
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.
>>And
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > it
>>>>>>> >> >> has
>>>>>>> >> >>>> been
>>>>>>> >> >>>> a
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we
>>made the
>>>>>>> >> >> making
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > money our secondary goal. (The effects of that kind of
>>>>>>> religious
>>>>>>> >> >>>> fervor
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our
>>>>>>> opponents.)
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> >> >> are
>>>>>>> >> >>>> ways
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the
>>profitable
>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>> >> >> side
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > GB's business::
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could
>>buy
>>>>>>> sails
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's
>>creation at
>>>>>>> >> >> Roger's
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > expense. Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at
>>>>>>> Stamford,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> simply
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > raised the price of his boat and included sails. Being
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > tough
>>>>>>> >> >>>> business
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to
>>>>>>> eat
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > their
>>>>>>> >> >> sail
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > inventories they bought elsewhere. We are slow learners
>>but
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> >> >>>> price
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has
>>latched
>>>>>>> onto.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>>> Or,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who
>>purchase
>>>>>>> parts,
>>>>>>> >> >>>> unique
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or
>>who
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > fail
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> honor
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > agreements with GB. We inherently do not like this
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > retaliatory
>>>>>>> >> >> type
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > solution, but it is a solution. Or
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > We could simply close shop and that would close the
>>>>>>> market
>>for
>>>>>>> >> >>>> unauthorized
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > parts vendors. This "cutting off ones nose" solution
>>>>>>> is
>>not
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > our
>>>>>>> >> >>>> choice.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > life
>>>>>>> >> >> cash
>>>>>>> >> >>>> flow
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based
>>>>>>> on
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >> thinking
>>>>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art
>>>>>>> C,
>>we
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> >> >> some
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > proposals that we will present to the List next week for
>>your
>>>>>>> >> >>>> appreciated
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > feedback. The pro bono time we are having to devote to
>>the
>>>>>>> >> >> problems
>>>>>>> >> >>>> and
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so
>>overwhelming
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > (and
>>>>>>> >> >> we
>>>>>>> >> >>>> hate
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we
>>just
>>>>>>> >> >> can't
>>>>>>> >> >>>> seem
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > ss
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>mailing
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > list
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> > __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> >
>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the
>>>>>>> mailing
>>list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> go
>>>>>>> >> >> to
>>>>>>> >> >>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>>
>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>list
>>>>>>> >> >>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> --
>>>>>>> >> >> View this message in context:
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660
>>>>>>> >> >> 048p24697834.html
>>>>>>> >> >> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>list
>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>list
>>>>>>> >> >> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >--
>>>>>>> >> >View this message in context:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24700483.html
>>>>>>> >> >Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing
>>>>>>> list
>>go
>>>>>>> >> >to
>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>go
>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>>> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>> >To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>>> go
>>to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> >__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>to
>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 3
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:43:04 -0400
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <1BA7BBD3036947F289B013E52D813110 at rhodes>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>
>>>John Shulick,
>>>
>>>That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the
>>good
>>>guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
know
>>I
>>>do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
through
>>as
>>>was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>
>>>While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are, please
>>do
>>>not feel slighted because
>>>at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
list.
>>>
>>>I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my time)
>>and
>>>I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to
>>put a
>>>lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by
>>us) I
>>>try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>advice
>>>to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since the
>>>differences are so drastic.
>>>
>>>I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got was
>>not
>>>satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole
boat
>>>and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send
>>back
>>>any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>
>>>ss
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>complex
>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>> whether
>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what the
>>>> price
>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>> place
>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not through
>>>> him.
>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>>some
>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller
>>for
>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>> usable)
>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>>parts
>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>>mast
>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>>part
>>>> of
>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>equivilent) ,
>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by
>>the
>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000 more.
>>I
>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete
>>>> set
>>of
>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts and
>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them
>>>> as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> John S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John;
>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as
>>"the
>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on
>>>> an
>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>>they
>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>> building
>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>> losing
>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>>http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 4
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:49:10 -0400
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <1D4BA299E8024EB6A63F0999A9BD8ED3 at rhodes>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>> reply-type=original
>>>
>>>even my typing is getting sloppy -
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:43 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore the
>>>> good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I do
>>know
>>>> I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>through
>>>> as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please
>>do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>time)
>>>> and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting to
>>put
>>>> a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built by
>>us)
>>>> I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>>
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you got
>>was
>>>> not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell whole
>>boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you send
>>>> back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired about
>>>>> some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a tiller
>>for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for small
>>parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for my
>>>>> mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week as
>>part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>equivilent)
>>>>> ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and by
>>the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more.
>>I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a complete
>>set
>>>>> of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make them
>>as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known as
>>"the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add on
>>an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts when
>>>>> they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>
>>http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to
>>
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 5
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:11:31 -0400
>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID: <8ADB74E6-CF8C-4B63-B1BE-199E3A0F2676 at nyu.edu>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>> format=flowed
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>waited and I may've found
>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>all winter long.
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>>all the best
>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>s/v Miracles
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>Videographer
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 6
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>><25945721.1248879868382.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>Lou,
>>>
>>>My guess is retirement in 10-15 years, although I marvel at his, Rose's,
>>and Elton's energy in this business arena. The composite support effort
I
>>have seen by Rhoadies to help other fleet skippers is incredible, and
will
>>become even more vital in the years ahead. As parts and accessories may
>>become less available, I, for one, have been keeping my eye out for
>>alternatives. As I discovered a year ago, the spreader brackets are
available from
>>Dwyer (I'd keep a close eye on your's if they become distorted with mast
>>stepping using the old GB method). The alternative transom crutch I use
>>and posted can be fabricated by a SS shop I have done work with.
>>>
>>>I have been told that replacement parts is one of the greatest concerns
>>of fleet skippers if we cannot obtain from GB, a problem I encountered as
>>long as two years ago. I have usually been able to find a substitute as
>>necessary. Maybe we can delay Stan's retirement until 20 years!
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Lou Rosenberg <lsr3 at nyu.edu>
>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>>
>>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>>
>>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of
rigging
>>
>>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>>
>>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>>waited and I may've found
>>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>>
>>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>>all winter long.
>>>>
>>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>>
>>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>>
>>>>all the best
>>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>s/v Miracles
>>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>>
>>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>>
>>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>>> the good
>>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>>> do know I
>>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>>> through as
>>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>>> please do
>>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>>> time) and
>>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>>> to put a
>>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>>> by us) I
>>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>>> advice
>>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>>> the
>>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>>> got was not
>>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>>> whole boat
>>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>>> send back
>>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> ss
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>>> complex
>>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>>> whether
>>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> price
>>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>>> about some
>>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>>> tiller for
>>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>>> usable)
>>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>>> small parts
>>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>>> my mast
>>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>>> as part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>>> more. I
>>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>>> complete set of
>>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>>> them as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John;
>>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>>> as "the
>>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>>> on an
>>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much
>>>>>> less
>>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>>> building
>>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>>> losing
>>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>>Videographer
>>>>
>>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>>
>>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>>
>>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 7
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:05:27 -0400
>>>From: "Lowe, Rob" <rlowe at vt.edu>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <7A5B57319AFF9D4A8060949F2E724D5E02B8B38D at mirkwood.cc.w2k.vt.edu>
>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>Lou,
>>>Good luck to you! It's been fun following along with your trials and
>>>progress over the years. I could have done what you have done, I'm glad
>>>my '76 was sailable from day one.
>>>
>>>Now where is Mill Basin and Rockaway Inlet exactly? I'm hunting on
>>>yahoo maps and you're in the New York area?? - Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Lou Rosenberg
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:12 AM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>
>>>Rhodes owners, wanna be owners, and lurkers like me,
>>>
>>>I bought my R22 from a discouraged owner who had not taken care of
>>>the boat and was basically dumping it in the back of
>>>a Pt Jefferson yard back in '04. I had been on the list for about a
>>>year before this and Stan advised me NOT to buy that boat.
>>>I went against his advice and through the years , Stan and Elton have
>>>helped me greatly. I ended up only buying about $1500, worth of rigging
>>>and supplies on a visit to Edenton NC in 2005, but subsequently Elton
>>>brought up a much needed used bow pulpit and new traveler assembly
>>>to my yard a few yrs later.
>>>
>>>In all fairness I have not bought that much from GB over the years
>>>but trust their judgement and of course Stan was right, I should've
>>>waited and I may've found
>>>a better deal. Restoring any boat is NOT that much fun but there are
>>>rewards of doing it yourself, but sailing is the eventual goal and
>>>ive sacrificed many sailing days to get where I am now.
>>>
>>>I owe so much to all the people on this list ALL of you helping me
>>>out with questions for this novice sailor who has few skills in terms
>>>of carpentry, fibreglassing
>>>and the like. Next Thurs I hope to launch Miracles for the rest of
>>>the year, keeping her in the calm, semi-polluted waters of Mill Basin
>>>all winter long.
>>>
>>>wish me luck , I'll need it.
>>>
>>>Stan, maybe its time to bring in new blood and find a way to accept
>>>some sort of retirement from all this grind?
>>>
>>>all the best
>>>and thanks for all your help
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>s/v Miracles
>>>On Jul 29, 2009, at 9:43 AM, stan wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess this is a dear John letter
>>>>
>>>> John Shulick,
>>>>
>>>> That does not sound like the Stan I know. I know I do not ignore
>>>> the good
>>>> guys or the bad guys (well maybe with one exception or two) and I
>>>> do know I
>>>> do not get all my e-mails and that some of my e-mail does not get
>>>> through as
>>>> was currently the case with everyone using comcast.net.
>>>>
>>>> While I have a lot of Johns and do not recall which one you are,
>>>> please do
>>>> not feel slighted because
>>>> at my age I have trouble remembering if there are any Stands on the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> I do note that you say you have a 71 Rhodes (almost even before my
>>>> time) and
>>>> I do know that when I get an e-mail from someone indicating wanting
>>>> to put a
>>>> lot of money into one of the first Rhodes ever built (and not built
>>>> by us) I
>>>> try very had to discourage them from pouring money into it with the
>>>> advice
>>>> to just sail it as is and when ready, get a more recent model since
>>>> the
>>>> differences are so drastic.
>>>>
>>>> I also note that you say we did sell you parts implying what you
>>>> got was not
>>>> satisfactory but note that you did not say that we always tell
>>>> whole boat
>>>> and parts buyers that everything from us is returnable. Did you
>>>> send back
>>>> any faulty parts - if not, please do.
>>>>
>>>> ss
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Shulick" <jsbudda at verizon.net>
>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the demise of the demise of the US auto industry has many
>>>>> complex
>>>>> factors in it and while they used the pizza principle I'm not shure
>>>>> whether
>>>>> it was the decisive factor in their fall. As for the cost and what
>>>>> the
>>>>> price
>>>>> point would be for a "sport model". GB would have to make that
>>>>> determination. Stan does not seem to notice or respond to any posts I
>>>>> place
>>>>> on this Forum perhaps because I bought my boat on Ebay and not
>>>>> through
>>>>> him.
>>>>> After buying my boat I approached him for a rudder and inquired
>>>>> about some
>>>>> various small parts. He sold me a used rudder assembly with a
>>>>> tiller for
>>>>> $750.00 The tiller had a crack at the end bolted to the rudder (but
>>>>> usable)
>>>>> and I had to seal and paint the blade myself. The request for
>>>>> small parts
>>>>> was ignored. Since I can take a hint I now go to other sources for
>>>>> my mast
>>>>> parts, trailer parts (I am bolting on a new Dexter axle this week
>>>>> as part
>>>>> of
>>>>> my trailer overhaul this is an exact replacement part not an
>>>>> equivilent) ,
>>>>> and sails. Stan has lost over $2,000 in potential sales to me and
>>>>> by the
>>>>> time my 71 restoration is finished he will probably loose $2,000
>>>>> more. I
>>>>> still am in the market for a 150 Genoa and a furler plus a
>>>>> complete set of
>>>>> standing rigging and hardware. Like yourself I'm looking for parts
>>>>> and
>>>>> accessories at a fair and resonable price and will find or make
>>>>> them as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> John S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John;
>>>>> You're referring to the old US car manufacturers technique known
>>>>> as "the
>>>>> pizza principle". Sell the basic model for a decent price but add
>>>>> on an
>>>>> outrageous markup for each option. The Japanese kicked our butts
>>>>> when they
>>>>> put all the good stuff in every car and the only choice was color.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the stripped down racing Rhodes would be that much less
>>>>> expensive to build, or that much cheaper to sell, but then I'm not
>>>>> building
>>>>> or selling boats, or cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just want to know where I can get parts and/or accessories without
>>>>> losing
>>>>> a friend, if I can help it, and if it's fair and reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>> BenCittadino
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/general-boat%27s-complaint-%28continued%29-
>>>>> tp24660048p24704459.html
>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>> go to
>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>Lou Rosenberg
>>>Videographer
>>>
>>>Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and
>>>Human Development at NYU
>>>
>>>239 Greene Street, Room 315
>>>lsr3 at nyu.edu
>>>
>>>(212) 998-5122
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 8
>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT)
>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing
>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>Message-ID:
>>>
>><10147864.1248881456189.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>>>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>>Caesar,
>>>
>>>How goes the sailing? I have been told of the excellent sailing in the
>>Wyoming area by a member of the Montgomery fleet, possibly not far from
you
>>at all. Apparently Yellowstone Lake is excellent, with the only
exception
>>being a fixed bridge between the lake and marina. The same skipper
>>reported that Jackson Lake has no obstructions to contend with, and is
much more
>>favorable anyway, apparently even warm enough to swim in. My Swedish
>>cousins laugh at our caution about cold water and insist they usually
break the
>>Baltic ice to take a refreshing dip.
>>>
>>>I am told the marinas on the south shore are impressive, and the only
>>irritant is mosquitos in the shallow water areas of the lake.
>>>
>>>Have you tried sailing here? I camped there years ago, and it is
awesome
>>scenery.
>>>
>>>Best to you,
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Rhodes22-list mailing list
>>>Rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>
>>>
>>>End of Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>**********************************************
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy
>>steps!
>>(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
>>=JulystepsfooterNO115)
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:38:57 -0400
>>From: Hank <hnw555 at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Centerboard and Sail Trim and Leeway
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Message-ID:
>> <c319c8b50907311738p1b340255g8a37568337f9e0 at mail.gmail.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Leland,
>>
>>In your scenario it is not critical because you are trying to go to a
point
>>the is more on a broad reach. However, if you look at my version and
>>consider this scenario.
>>
>>Here, we want to sail from A to C. With the board down we can sail
directly
>>there. However, with the board up, we end up at B instead of C. We then
>>need to tack and sail the extra distance. The speed gained with the board
>>up does not make up for the extra distance we had to sail.
>>
>>Hank
>>
>>On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Leland <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> Everything I've read indicates that you are right. Many of the times
>>> that
>>> I've measured the effects of the centerboard I've noticed more than a
>>> ten
>>> degree improvement into the wind. However, every time I put the board
>>> down
>>> I slow down. Every time I raise the board I speed up.
>>>
>>> Hopefully this picture will come through:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p24764138/Sail%2BSpeed.ppt Sail+Speed.ppt
>>>
>>> Let's assume you're sailing from point A to B with the board up.
>>> Doesn't
>>> matter how much you drift because you're still going from point A to B.
>>> If
>>> you put the board down you can sail more into the wind and you are able
>>> to
>>> sail from point A to C. To get to point B you would then need to sail
>>> from
>>> point C to A. Even if you weren't sailing slower with the board down,
>>> wouldn't it take you longer to go from point A to C to B than sailing
>>> directly from point A to B?
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> Unless I want to go more into the wind, it still seems like the best
>>> reason
>>> to put the board down is to knock the barnacles off.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>>
>>>
>>> Yesterday I got the chance to sail in 5-10 kt wind and relatively flat
>>> water. I set the boat up on a beam reach (apparent wind 90 degreees).
>>> The
>>> course was was 060 M by my steering compass. We were able to do about
>>> .5 - 4 kts SOG by the GPS.
>>>
>>> With the board down our COG (Course over ground) was 055-057 M
>>> With the board up out COG was 045-048 M
>>>
>>> Although my steering compass is not compensated and thus has unknown
>>> deviation, since it was held steady at 060 the deviation has no
>>> importance
>>> here. Lowering the board reduced leeway by about 10 degrees. Lowering
>>> the
>>> board had no observed effect on SOG although wind variation could have
>>> hidden a small effect. Based on these results I see no reason to sail
>>> with
>>> the board up unless in very thin water and one very good reason to sail
>>> with
>>> it down.
>>>
>>> David Walker
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Partial-Mainsail-tp24647946p24764138.html
>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 4
>>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: BenCittadino <bencittadino at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Crew Gear
>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>Message-ID: <24765265.post at talk.nabble.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>>Michael M and/or Rummy and/or Whomever (Whoever?...whatever):
>>
>>Your reference to a Rhodes logo comes at an interesting time for me. I was
>>thinking about ordering up some gift "crew member" polo shirts for my kids
>>and grandkids using a generic sailboat logo of some kind embroidered on
them
>>along with the name of my boat. I have now noticed the "snazzy" Rhodes
Logo
>>on the Rhodes' Owners web page. Is that the logo you are talking about?
Who
>>does that logo belong to? Whose permission do I need to use it on my
shirts?
>>If it is already on shirts sold by Lands End can they produce custom
shirts
>>with my boat name? Your feedback would be appreciated.
>>
>>BenCittadino
>>SV Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>Highlands, NJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>R22RumRunner wrote:
>>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they still have the logo. I have the information on a different
>>> computer. I will send it to you later.
>>>
>>> Rummy
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 7/30/2009 9:22:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> mjm at michaelmeltzer.com writes:
>>>
>>> Is the rhodes22 logo still on file with lands end? Rummy you remember
>>> or
>>> one else?
>>>
>>> -mjm
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H.
>>> Czerwonky
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:23 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>
>>> Deena,
>>>
>>> Do you think an inscribed ball point, one worth keeping and using,
>>> would
>>> make sense? We just need to 'blue sky' this show...
>>>
>>> I stitched a miniature sail bag once, it was made of actual sailcloth
>>> and
>>> was embroidered. Really quality you wouldn't pitch in file 13. Maybe
>>> an
>>> embossed key chain with a small fiberglass piece (of hull) as a hanger.
>>> There must be soms scrap around the GB facility. " You have a small
>>> part
>>> of
>>> the boat, we can deliver the rest in a few months." Let's stretch our
>>> imagination over Stan (SOS)!
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: captainpy at comcast.net
>>>>Sent: Jul 29, 2009 4:56 PM
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes Promotions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Stan!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>How about a Rhodes 22 T-shirt That says "Ask me about my Rhodes" )On
one
>>> side a picture and on the other GB's web address?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Deena AKA Captain Py
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>>To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:00:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>>>Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 1931, Issue 1
>>>>
>>>>Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>> rhodes22-list-owner at rhodes22.org
>>>>
>>>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>than "Re: Contents of Rhodes22-list digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Stuff that works - pest control solutions (Jim Connolly)
>>>> 2. Re: Fw: general boat's dilema (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>> 3. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>>> 4. Re: general boat's complaint (continued) (stan)
>>>> 5. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lou Rosenberg)
>>>> 6. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness
>>>> (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>> 7. Re: general boat's complaint /in all fairness (Lowe, Rob)
>>>> 8. Yellowstone Lake, Jackson Lake Sailing (Arthur H. Czerwonky)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>Message: 1
>>>>Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:01:17 -0400
>>>>From: "Jim Connolly" <jbconnolly at comcast.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>>To: "'The Rhodes 22 Email List'" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>Message-ID: <200907290201.n6T21ZTY022293 at raeid23.raenet.com>
>>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>>I had hornets and wasps in the coaming right before launch, so I needed
a
>>>>fast solution.
>>>>
>>>>I found a non-toxic wasp killer spray that is based on mint oil
("poison
>>>>free" from Victor Pest Control). It took a whole can, but seemed to
>>> work.
>>>>The smell repelled or confused returning wasps, and those that were
home
>>>>when I sprayed (at least some of them) died.
>>>>
>>>>Jim Connolly
>>>>s/v Inisheer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:29 PM
>>>>To: Rhodes 22
>>>>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Stuff that works - pest control solutions
>>>>
>>>>Last year I had a couple of pest problems that many people responded
too
>>>>with helpful suggestions. Here's what my results were -
>>>>
>>>>1) Problem - spider webs in the rigging (especially masthead fly)
>>> Solution -
>>>>WD40. I had the mast down early this spring to fix several things.
>>> Before
>>>>raising again, I sprayed WD40 liberally on the masthead, Windex, VHF
>>>>antenna, and diamond stays. So far (5 months
>>>>later) not a single web! Still get them down lower where I didn't
spray,
>>> so
>>>>we know the spiders are still there. But they don't want to (or can't)
>>>>start webs on the WD40 treated portion.
>>>>
>>>>2) Problem - paper wasps building nests under the cockpit coaming
>>> Solution -
>>>>clothes drier sheets. Middle of last summer I stapled a bunch of drier
>>>>sheets into the wood backing up under the coaming on both sides. No
wasp
>>>>nests have appeared in almost a year now. I see some more wasp
activity
>>>>now, so I suspect it's time to renew the sheets. But that's a cheap
and
>>>>effective control.
>>>>
>>>>Now if only I could figure out what to do about the ants coming aboard
>>> from
>>>>shore....
>>>>
>>>>Cheers!
>>>>John Lock
>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>>>>Lake Sinclair, GA
>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
>>>>http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>Message: 2
>>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky" <czerwonky at earthlink.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] F
>>
>>[Message truncated]
>>
>>__________________________________________________
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>
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