[Rhodes22-list] Counterpoint Was: [now comes gb/concluded]
Todd Tavares
sprocket80 at mail.com
Mon Aug 24 23:41:59 EDT 2009
Stan,
Before I ask for clarification on a few points in later e-mails, I
want to address one thought you raised.
As to your point of doing any prospective buyer a favor, by buying a
boat out from under them.
Regardless of the condition, especially if this buyer may never
contact you or ever ask for your help which is the primary reason for
this
List (..."freely dipping into GB's resources...." as you define it), is
complete rubbish.
So if your plan model is to hold any water, it must be equitable for all
parties. Irrespective of your "myopic" view, you must pay that person
for
the lead to get that useless hull off of the market. My reason for this
statement is---you certainly did not buy this boat to do the
missing-out-buyer any favors, but to
either re-sell this boat for profit or control the supply of boats on the
market, for the sole of benefit GB. So by notifying you of a boat for
private sale, here on
the List, that missing-out-buyer, has (to re-use you own words and/or
ideas) demonstrated an interest in GB's burden to make public new or
recycle sales
and is helping you by "getting that disaster off the market" and should
thus be rewarded for his/her burden and loyalty to GB's continued
existence.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D. Weisner"
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] now comes gb/concluded
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:24:09 -0400
(Stan, I think that this may be a bit easier to read - Mike W)
Now Comes GB / Concluded
Dear Rhodies,
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. You have started the wheels
rolling. "General Boats Certificate of Support" program is now at a
printer
who specializes in "Certificate of Origin" numbered boat forms. We
will post
a copy as soon as it comes in (as soon as we learn how). We have also
added
a page, "A word about Private Rhodes Sales and Purchases" to include
with
all boat show handouts and inquiries mailings. We will also send this
page
to the List with the hope that List members will collectively agree
to it
being periodically posted for the advantage of List buyers and List
sellers
who prefer direct transactions.
Your e-mails deserve a response, so here goes:
1. A few of you suggested we may be breaking some law..
As an engineer, I only had four courses on business law but I
suspect that a "voluntary" program would not be breaking any law -
any more
than those trying to intimidate opinions at "Town Hall Meetings" by
posting
unconcealed weapons on their bodies.
I did suggest the imagery that one might look at the Lo/Ro as a
sales tax but I did not mean literally - rather as a concept no
different
than the commission (sales tax) a broker puts on a house or car or
boat,
every time he or she sells the same item over again to another buyer.
A few said that we can not legally deny service. If we are out of
business, this is a mute argument. Our position merely points out
that our
limited resources, of necessity, have to be prioritized. (Try an
American
Express card without a Costco number and see if they give you the
discounted
gas or try calling HP with a question and see how this works with
for-profit
companies.)
2. There was a response hint that this discussion was inappropriate
for
a List that should be focused on a narrow menu. I am with David
Bradley.
> From GB's perspective there have never been any problems with any
subjects
any List members wanted to bring up on the List. We like the
knocking-of-the-boat topics - it gives us an opportunity to correct
our
conceptions or, the knockers' misconceptions. Personally I feel it is
this
broadmindedness that makes the List so much more interesting than
other
lists and note that many who do take sabbaticals usually return or
quietly
keep monitoring. More to this issue, however, is the fact that Bob
Keller
and others' responses of interest in GB's future appear to make this
kind of
discussion relative.
3. So, re Chris's joined concerns re Business Plans: Physically we
feel
up to another 50 years but have to face the facts of life; and
changing
facts of business life. GB is burning thru capital running in circles
trying
to bite its tail helping outside private sales and purchases. If no
solution
to that spinning, the business plan is self evident. On the other
hand a
money making GB will attract one of you out there; or encourage our
current
employees (who have now evolved into an unbelievably expert crew) to
step up
to more responsibility; or a well heeled builder falling behind with
his
current clunker, to come to recognize the Rhodes and make an offer
too good
to refuse. If your concern is Long Term Business Plan then your
concern has
to be with the Current Term Plan: A solution to the subsidizing of
freebee
bites being taken out of the tail that has been wagging this dog.
4. The two way street: Todd, tongue in cheek, wants GB in turn to pay
for leads obtained for boats to buy back and graciously waives all
prior
fees he feels due. Wrong on two counts: These boats may be so bad
that we
deserve a commission for doing an innocent buyer the great favor of
getting
that disaster off the market. Remember, originally our boats were
built for
us by shoddy contractors or by counterfeiters, no longer around to
service
their buyers. Like a bank taking torn bills out of circulation, we
have a
graveyard of hulls that will not be returned to circulation. For the
good
boats you let us buy, your fee should come from the owners for
helping get
his or her boat sold.
5. Re Scott's question of who pays the Lo/Ro commission
Many of you approached the "who pays" question with a buyer's
mindset. The final, now in-the-works program, concluded that the
seller is
the more motivated and rewarded, having only one boat to sell, while
the
buyer has many to choose from.
6 Retroactive?
No. Never gave that a thought, David Culp. Current owners are
grandfathered in our good favor. Our disfavor, so far, has only been
bestowed on sellers who, advised of the program, demonstrated no
interest in
GB's burden in making private sales possible or what effect their
freely
dipping into GB's resources would have on GB's ability to stay in
business
under their myopic terms.
7. There was a response suggesting that maybe GB should be the direct
seller of ALL used Rhodes.
We are not for this. David Culp is correct. This would be a conflict
of interest. If we have a prospect who can afford going recycled, we
might
find it difficult to encourage them to buy your listed Used Boat
instead.
Where prospects are budget bound, or where location is a
consideration, we
always direct them to the List or to private sellers we are aware of.
We
want private buyers and sellers completely free to do what works best
for
them. But we do want them to emerge from denial and face the reality
that
almost every Rhodes sold and bought has, in some way, been the result
of
GB's efforts of time and money - and that those contributions have to
be, at
least, partially amortized.
8. Rick's Blackberry Theory - and why it is not our problem.
It probably is true that less sailboats are being sold because more
people have become couch potatoes eating berries. But the Rhodes is
getting
a bigger share of this shrinking market. But the largest share of
Rhodes
sales is becoming private sales. GB must be reimbursed for part of
all it
does in making this market - there are no alternates.
9. Ruffled Feathers:
For those like John who seem miffed because I implied that a used
boat they were buying is not up to our standards, we are pleased they
have
ended up with a boat they are happy with and will not go down the
road that
talks about how older and new boat construction differs.
10. The Parts part of the Business.
Ben's focus on parts and the few like Rick, reviewing their right to
buy parts from whomever they wish and god bless capitalism, is an
issue I do
not take issue with - I do not want to dilute the private boat
selling/buying issue here, with One exceptional reminder: There are
enough
proprietary parts of a Rhodes that just are not available elsewhere
and
therefore would not be available to Rhodes owners if the Rhodes is
ushered
into boat Heaven, tomorrow.
11. I think Mary Lou suggested, perhaps member dues. Sounds
attractive
but, not being a joiner by nature, I tend to shy from this direction
and
tend to like a direction with as little record keeping and repetitive
nature
as possible.
We hope that when you digest what we have worked out with the GB
Certificate
of Support program, it will earn your support for its valuable
contribution
to Private Buyers, to Private Sellers and to Prime Care Provider: GB.
Soon
almost every potential private Rhodes buyer will be aware of his or
her
choice as to whether they should buy their Rhodes from a private
seller who
can or, who has elected not to, sell his or her Rhodes with a GB
Certificate
of Support numbered document.
----- Original Message -----
From: "stan"
To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] now comes gb/concluded
> thanks John
>
> on my copy to myself it came through with an attachment line and
all three
> attachments on that line whereas on the one I got through the
incoming List
> mail did not have the attachment line with attachments on it so
looked like
> maybe some sort of censoring action to this uninitiated.
>
> ss
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lock"
> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] now comes gb/concluded
>
>
>> The attachments came thru OK. "Scrubbed" just means they have been
>> cleaned and prepared for delivery to the list. Perhaps an
unfortunate
>> choice of terms on Mailman's part... "Prepped" is more like it.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> John Lock
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
>> Lake Sinclair, GA
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 09:28, stan wrote:
>>> well I see the copy I sent to myself came through with all the
>>> attachments but the copy that went to the List had all the
>>> attachments "scrubbed"
>>>
>>> lots of luck - I give up
>>>
>>> ss
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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>>>
>>
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>
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