[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Sense

[michael meltzer]

The boat is kept in compo marina, Westport ct. Some Intelligence you will
need to gain access: I will advise access is controlled for the
area(generally a 3 man gate security), subject you pay the fee,  because
beach camp is there and a large group on youngsters, Westport stations a
dedicated armed portal during daylight. At night the Armed portal remains to
deter the teenager from the complex. The docks themselves are manned by the
Westport marina police force(nice job when you get it), generally a 2
staffed unit 16x7 over the summer with weekend expanding to a 4 man unit.
They have the cute Bermuda shorts look with the guns also... at night the
retied cops get the marina watch. Because boats are governed by the merchant
marine rules from the 1700's, like the laws of salvage and the right to
armed defense(what ever happened to "Letters of Marque"), please be
careful...

The same way any one reading this the above the fact are correct, it still
complete bushshit. Same for your lock example(ny'ers can cut any bike bike
lock) to GE was down to 6$ dollars because of GE capital and if the
government had to step in like AIG the stockholders would have been wiped
out, nothing to do with company or your example. So more inductions that you
truly do not understand what you are talking about

Any in this case, it was a boat show and I would have extended stan any
curtsey he needed (as in take the boat, use it as needed, fix anything that
the nebbies break), stan been sailing off of dock for years(like 60) and an
18 inch draft in a mooring field being tricky is also bullshit, and that is
said with 25 year of my own expiree and the captains ticket to back that up.


I can only assume here that you must be the "I am always right type", more
than a little anail, maybe compulsive, view any criticism as a attack that
must be repelled, it seems the ability for self reflection is low, learning
has stopped. 

Bottom line everything your did here was not right, you do not understand
why and so you assume you are right. Sad..............

-mjm




-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:40 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Sense

Michael,

Next trip north, tell me where your boat is located so I can go for a sail
unannounced.  Better yet, I have a buddy who wants to sail in your water, so
then I can tell him.  I'll tell him not to mind the tricky mooring field
near where your boat is located, because after all, it is your boat, not
his.  

Now my reason for locking the bow in St Pete had nothing to do with GB.
Florida has one of the highest rates of pretty stolen boats in the country.
However,  Stan has just reinforced that issue, because I never dreamed that
without my permission (he never requested it, ever) he would have the gall
to commandeer Mary Jane for his own or assign a proxy.  Further, to tell a
mature, experienced skipper whether to sail or motor, unless safe operation
is jeopardized, is disrespectful.  Further still, to reprimand a volunteer
about show hours is simply poor headwork.  Now let's get serious!

I have been involved in marketing my entire career - a boat show is a
positive step, no argument at all.  Do you think our competition dares to
stop there?  There is always a question of degree, what is affordable, but
you simply cannot get best ROI if you are not willing to address the I of
ROI.  Advertising is reinforcement to the buying message or cue.  Does that
make sense to a saavy business executive.  You can stretch a shoestring only
so far.

I have never approached the market based on price competition - let's talk
about this sometime.  If you think this is a route to anywhere other than
the boneyard, you, Michael, don't get it, in all due respect.  I don't
believe I have left any hint that this is my motto.  

I will restate my premise - You do not ultimately prevail in the marketplace
if you do not have the best products.  Ask Mr. Immelt - the stock was driven
into the basement ~$6.00 per, and GE still landed favorable contracts, and
will recover based on its unquestioned quality and competitive offerings.
Now closer to home, in most markets, price is ultimately based on what the
market will bear.  I got into the BR business because I was angry, as many
others were, that the only existing option was a $2,000 range investment.
Rhoadies wanted the product, but the market would not bear the cost.  I was
able to produce a far better product at a far lower cost of about $1,100 -
$1,400 (based on special options).  Why not make the purchase and use
achievable and have happier sailors that can honestly cruise in comfort.  I
had one middleman in Stan from the start, and we learned that out business
practices and personalities just did not mix.  

My goal is no different now from then - satisfy fleet needs with the best
you can without compromising quality.  Some of our skippers appreciate the
expanded capability and range of our boat because of the BR, I am one.  It
adds at least two monthe to my sailing season, and can cope with the dew,
the rain, the bugs, and hot or cool breezes.  

BTW : If you are interested I have a special lowball price for you, if you
buy in the next 24 hours!

Mike, I am not a certified teacher and never have been, so I do not fit in
that box.  I am well trained and experienced in sales and thoroughly enjoy
helping people achieve their aims.  I'll never care to sell unless it can
honestly accomplish that objective.

R,

Art
s/v Mary Jane


-----Original Message-----
>From: michael meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 11:28 AM
>To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>
>
>Ok, maybe I am bored today and string the pot, and I will admit somewhat
biased towards GB.
>
>
>The quote is sticking like a knife in the gut(maybe it the self righteous
tone of the overall posts about "competition"), 
>
>"some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
increased boat orders and boat production."
>
>That is exactly what a boat show is, now I have helped gb over the years
with the boat show and towing, storage... I can tell you that GB laid out a
lot of money to do ST Pete(high 4 figures from past experience without
knowing any of the details in this case at all). 
>
>What makes a boat show, selling maybe 1 boat and a great show 2 or more,
very very thin.... Now chaining up a boat, not letting stan sail or sell(he
sells most boat thought the demo sails), forcing people to captain and crew
that might be "killing the sale", creating the tension on the docks and boat
from all this "bad vibes" that kills sales. Stan and eltion do a
relationship "sale", the means they are working with the customer for weeks
and months investing a lot of money and time to know the persons needs,
keeping them happy and getting them, to the shows to "see the boat" and
making a deal.
>
>What bothering me here, and from the tone of the email, Art, you relly do
not "get it", I think you where a teacher in a past life, so the agony
"student is rattling off fact and figures, but completely obvious to what
they mean or how the system works in real life"   you have this atom Smith
model in your head to sell on price and that all what counts. But in the end
it how you sell the product that really matters and that make or breaks the
business. In the end you missed the whole "art of the sale", or how to
relationship sell and it seam any sale training on how to sell people. The
classic is still "Dale Carnegie" book from the 1930's, as a small business
owner you are going to need to learn "how to sell"
>
>-mjm
>
>PS. I have Not talked to either side about this and only know what in the
email on the list, I prefer to keep it that what way, call it the
"Bloomberg" open transpierces model"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:29 AM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>
>If you get five replies from me, it's a little like my email to Mary Lou
that started this firestorm, my Earthlink email is not sending the emails as
I designate.  Are we TOUGH?
>
>Art
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 7:30 PM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>
>> Art,
>>
>>      While it may be like fingernails on a chalkboard to some (as will
>>this e-mail), but why don't you defend yourself here in open forum?
>>Your response just changed the subject. Besides, people here on the list
>>who know me know I like a good argument.
>>
>>    Stan does sell unique parts to to his unique boat. When I asked for
>>pintles and gudgeons because I wanted build
>>a rudder head just like the GB one, he would not sell them to me because
>>my boat was bought aftermarket; not from him.  He
>>reserved to sell these specialized parts to "paying" customers, because
>>his supplier was no longer in business and he had a finite
>>number in stock.  This pissed me off at first, but I understand and would
>>do the same if I were him. Stan did however sell me a traveler
>>car and for that I am grateful. I also sent Stan some money for a used
>>standard mainsail and he sent me four.
>>
>> Twice I spoke about used boats which I was negotiating to purchase, here
>>on the list, and both times Stan contacted the sellers and bought
>>them out from under me. (which is why I did not talk about the e-bay boat
>>in Bessemer City, NC). I never demanded a voluntary
>>finder's fee from GB. So, I agree that paying any "volunteered" royalty
>>or fee to GB for parts or boats sold here on the list is ridiculous....
>>except in the case where Stan steers buyers to the list.  Since the fees
>>are voluntary, I don't think Stan should throw it in anyone's face
>>either if they did not pay--nor do I believe these fees make or break
>>GB,even in the present economy.
>>
>>   Like you Art, I'd guess, there is nothing on any year Rhodes 22 which
>>I could not fabricate myself (time permitting). I am all for giving Stan
>>his due, and would
>>rather buy a part from GB than have to make it myself. I would support
>>the argument of selling any fabricated "copied" parts here on the
>>list or otherwise; sans royalty fee, if Stan no longer sells or would
>>fabricate and obsolete part. I'd imagine if that were the case, he'd
>>probably
>>tell you to knock yourself out because you would not be stealing his
>>business. I started a heated debate over intellectual property rights
>>when
>>I created and posted dimensioned drawings of the triad trailer. My
>>drawings are to benefit the do-it-yourselfers on the list and not to sell
>>knock-offs.
>>Nor am I worried about pissing Stan off by not paying a commission,
>>royalty, "tithe" or 'loyalty' fee lest he refuse to sell me another part.
>>I would however
>>worry about him suing me.
>>
>>   Stan does have a business to run, and has painted a less than rosy
>>picture. I can't be the only inquiring mind wanting to know.
>>
>>  Todd T
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>  Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT)
>>
>>
>>  Guys,
>>
>>  Like I said once before, if anyone cares to hear more detail on the
>>  'private and personal issues' that Stan has inappropriately focused
>>  on in this public forum, please contact me off-line or on the
>>  phone. Some have done already. He has gotten something off his
>>  chest. Simply put, there is a "World according to Stan" that is so
>>  sadly distorted in this case. I'd avoid it for yourself.
>>
>>  It is such a waste of your time to fixate on such a trivial matters
>>  like these. Let's get to the key issues. I suspect Mary Lou made
>>  an excellent point of support for a payment of a surcharge,
>>  royalty, or commission for products of non-GB origin that we need
>>  and purchase for our fleet boats. If this is to be a sincere
>>  gesture to Stan by fleet members, it should not be limited to
>>  products supplied by me or anyone who happens to be a member of our
>>  fleet. When we buy line, SS fixtures, sails, anchors, or any
>>  equipment for our boats, this would seem to be similar
>>  justification for an override, a 'loyalty' fee or tithe, if you
>>  will.
>>
>>  Consider this :Two years ago I found it necessary to approach Dwyer
>>  about replacing my spreader fixtures, distorted after many years of
>>  mast stepping. We used the rear lower shroud for attachment to the
>>  crane for lifting the IMF - the GB recommended method as late as
>>  the '06 Annapolis show. I approached Stan three times over as many
>>  months, from before that show until before the St Pete show the
>>  same year, in order to purchase two fixtures at about $40 per, and
>>  never received any response at all - none, nada, zippo. That seems
>>  non-responsive. Now, having to go to Dwyer, is a skipper whose
>>  request has been ignored somehow expected to forward a commission
>>  fee to Stan? Make your own judgement on what makes sense.
>>
>>  If GB needs to be further underwritten and supported, maybe Stan
>>  should consider making interested investors shareholder/partners in
>>  GB. As 'stakeholders' in the R22 fleet, maybe this is not so far
>>  fetched for some of us, although not me. Think about it. There
>>  ought to be some way we can infuse GB without Stan effectively
>>  having to seek donations versus legit services. If GB is in a
>>  financial bind, more is needed than a loyalty fee gesture. This
>>  is, no doubt, a sensitive issue for him since it could affect GB
>>  ownership.
>>
>>  I am not aware of any manufacturer (picture any of the sailboat
>>  manufacturers, even Catalina or MacGregor) who expects their
>>  customers to pay homage to them for after-market sales, maintenance
>>  or upgrades on their products which are not contracted by the
>>  manufacturer. Is anyone aware of such an industry obligation?
>>
>>  A comment on my work - I am making a tiller cover for Dave, no
>>  charge, BTW. I have to charge when I make other items, ie the
>>  Cockpit Enclosure. I have no objection whatever if any client
>>  wants to project a 10% add-on for Stan. I simply cannot establish
>>  this 'side account' within my little enterprise, for tax and
>>  precedent issues. My pledge to you is that you will be using the
>>  absolute best product at the best cost, no exception. If I cannot
>>  provide the best value for you I will tell you honestly and decline
>>  the opportunity until I can, and I have done this. I'll respond
>>  promptly, by cell usually (I can get to know you and your
>>  priorities better), and produce with a commit to delivery and cost,
>>  even if I underestimate. I will treat any work as a priority
>>  custom crafted and fitted job, no assembly line mentality. I will
>>  provide more than enough cost advantage to enable to you to send
>>  Stan his due, but will not define the cost in such a way that
>>  requires you to. It w!
>>  ill be your free choice, friends. One additional point - I will
>>  enjoy making your product, whatever it is, and you will enjoy using
>>  it - that's just the rule. I will do well with canvas, and don't
>>  think I will begin producing sailboats...
>>
>>  I will make a strong suggestion: Even though PR happenings, like
>>  the #1 poll results, an impressive 'Good Old Boat' writeup in ~
>>  '05, and the 'Sailing' p52 piece are good and free advertising,
>>  some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
>>  increased boat orders and boat production. Many of us found the
>>  R22 by sheer chance. Why put 'the bar' so low on purpose (BTW,
>>  with no reference to Rummy)?
>>
>>  Once again, time for an aspirin...
>>
>>  Stan for Vice President, Rose for Ms. America!
>>
>>  Art
>>
>>
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