[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Sense

[Arthur H. Czerwonky]

Have a good day, Michael, we obviously and completely disagree.  BTW, in spite of faltering financial issues, are you suggesting GE is a weak company?

-----Original Message-----
>From: michael meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 1:54 PM
>To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Sense
>
>
>The boat is kept in compo marina, Westport ct. Some Intelligence you will
>need to gain access: I will advise access is controlled for the
>area(generally a 3 man gate security), subject you pay the fee,  because
>beach camp is there and a large group on youngsters, Westport stations a
>dedicated armed portal during daylight. At night the Armed portal remains to
>deter the teenager from the complex. The docks themselves are manned by the
>Westport marina police force(nice job when you get it), generally a 2
>staffed unit 16x7 over the summer with weekend expanding to a 4 man unit.
>They have the cute Bermuda shorts look with the guns also... at night the
>retied cops get the marina watch. Because boats are governed by the merchant
>marine rules from the 1700's, like the laws of salvage and the right to
>armed defense(what ever happened to "Letters of Marque"), please be
>careful...
>
>The same way any one reading this the above the fact are correct, it still
>complete bushshit. Same for your lock example(ny'ers can cut any bike bike
>lock) to GE was down to 6$ dollars because of GE capital and if the
>government had to step in like AIG the stockholders would have been wiped
>out, nothing to do with company or your example. So more inductions that you
>truly do not understand what you are talking about
>
>Any in this case, it was a boat show and I would have extended stan any
>curtsey he needed (as in take the boat, use it as needed, fix anything that
>the nebbies break), stan been sailing off of dock for years(like 60) and an
>18 inch draft in a mooring field being tricky is also bullshit, and that is
>said with 25 year of my own expiree and the captains ticket to back that up.
>
>
>I can only assume here that you must be the "I am always right type", more
>than a little anail, maybe compulsive, view any criticism as a attack that
>must be repelled, it seems the ability for self reflection is low, learning
>has stopped. 
>
>Bottom line everything your did here was not right, you do not understand
>why and so you assume you are right. Sad..............
>
>-mjm
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:40 PM
>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Sense
>
>Michael,
>
>Next trip north, tell me where your boat is located so I can go for a sail
>unannounced.  Better yet, I have a buddy who wants to sail in your water, so
>then I can tell him.  I'll tell him not to mind the tricky mooring field
>near where your boat is located, because after all, it is your boat, not
>his.  
>
>Now my reason for locking the bow in St Pete had nothing to do with GB.
>Florida has one of the highest rates of pretty stolen boats in the country.
>However,  Stan has just reinforced that issue, because I never dreamed that
>without my permission (he never requested it, ever) he would have the gall
>to commandeer Mary Jane for his own or assign a proxy.  Further, to tell a
>mature, experienced skipper whether to sail or motor, unless safe operation
>is jeopardized, is disrespectful.  Further still, to reprimand a volunteer
>about show hours is simply poor headwork.  Now let's get serious!
>
>I have been involved in marketing my entire career - a boat show is a
>positive step, no argument at all.  Do you think our competition dares to
>stop there?  There is always a question of degree, what is affordable, but
>you simply cannot get best ROI if you are not willing to address the I of
>ROI.  Advertising is reinforcement to the buying message or cue.  Does that
>make sense to a saavy business executive.  You can stretch a shoestring only
>so far.
>
>I have never approached the market based on price competition - let's talk
>about this sometime.  If you think this is a route to anywhere other than
>the boneyard, you, Michael, don't get it, in all due respect.  I don't
>believe I have left any hint that this is my motto.  
>
>I will restate my premise - You do not ultimately prevail in the marketplace
>if you do not have the best products.  Ask Mr. Immelt - the stock was driven
>into the basement ~$6.00 per, and GE still landed favorable contracts, and
>will recover based on its unquestioned quality and competitive offerings.
>Now closer to home, in most markets, price is ultimately based on what the
>market will bear.  I got into the BR business because I was angry, as many
>others were, that the only existing option was a $2,000 range investment.
>Rhoadies wanted the product, but the market would not bear the cost.  I was
>able to produce a far better product at a far lower cost of about $1,100 -
>$1,400 (based on special options).  Why not make the purchase and use
>achievable and have happier sailors that can honestly cruise in comfort.  I
>had one middleman in Stan from the start, and we learned that out business
>practices and personalities just did not mix.  
>
>My goal is no different now from then - satisfy fleet needs with the best
>you can without compromising quality.  Some of our skippers appreciate the
>expanded capability and range of our boat because of the BR, I am one.  It
>adds at least two monthe to my sailing season, and can cope with the dew,
>the rain, the bugs, and hot or cool breezes.  
>
>BTW : If you are interested I have a special lowball price for you, if you
>buy in the next 24 hours!
>
>Mike, I am not a certified teacher and never have been, so I do not fit in
>that box.  I am well trained and experienced in sales and thoroughly enjoy
>helping people achieve their aims.  I'll never care to sell unless it can
>honestly accomplish that objective.
>
>R,
>
>Art
>s/v Mary Jane
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: michael meltzer <mjm at michaelmeltzer.com>
>>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 11:28 AM
>>To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>
>>
>>Ok, maybe I am bored today and string the pot, and I will admit somewhat
>biased towards GB.
>>
>>
>>The quote is sticking like a knife in the gut(maybe it the self righteous
>tone of the overall posts about "competition"), 
>>
>>"some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
>increased boat orders and boat production."
>>
>>That is exactly what a boat show is, now I have helped gb over the years
>with the boat show and towing, storage... I can tell you that GB laid out a
>lot of money to do ST Pete(high 4 figures from past experience without
>knowing any of the details in this case at all). 
>>
>>What makes a boat show, selling maybe 1 boat and a great show 2 or more,
>very very thin.... Now chaining up a boat, not letting stan sail or sell(he
>sells most boat thought the demo sails), forcing people to captain and crew
>that might be "killing the sale", creating the tension on the docks and boat
>from all this "bad vibes" that kills sales. Stan and eltion do a
>relationship "sale", the means they are working with the customer for weeks
>and months investing a lot of money and time to know the persons needs,
>keeping them happy and getting them, to the shows to "see the boat" and
>making a deal.
>>
>>What bothering me here, and from the tone of the email, Art, you relly do
>not "get it", I think you where a teacher in a past life, so the agony
>"student is rattling off fact and figures, but completely obvious to what
>they mean or how the system works in real life"   you have this atom Smith
>model in your head to sell on price and that all what counts. But in the end
>it how you sell the product that really matters and that make or breaks the
>business. In the end you missed the whole "art of the sale", or how to
>relationship sell and it seam any sale training on how to sell people. The
>classic is still "Dale Carnegie" book from the 1930's, as a small business
>owner you are going to need to learn "how to sell"
>>
>>-mjm
>>
>>PS. I have Not talked to either side about this and only know what in the
>email on the list, I prefer to keep it that what way, call it the
>"Bloomberg" open transpierces model"
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Arthur H. Czerwonky
>>Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:29 AM
>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>
>>If you get five replies from me, it's a little like my email to Mary Lou
>that started this firestorm, my Earthlink email is not sending the emails as
>I designate.  Are we TOUGH?
>>
>>Art
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Todd Tavares <sprocket80 at mail.com>
>>>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 7:30 PM
>>>To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>>
>>> Art,
>>>
>>>      While it may be like fingernails on a chalkboard to some (as will
>>>this e-mail), but why don't you defend yourself here in open forum?
>>>Your response just changed the subject. Besides, people here on the list
>>>who know me know I like a good argument.
>>>
>>>    Stan does sell unique parts to to his unique boat. When I asked for
>>>pintles and gudgeons because I wanted build
>>>a rudder head just like the GB one, he would not sell them to me because
>>>my boat was bought aftermarket; not from him.  He
>>>reserved to sell these specialized parts to "paying" customers, because
>>>his supplier was no longer in business and he had a finite
>>>number in stock.  This pissed me off at first, but I understand and would
>>>do the same if I were him. Stan did however sell me a traveler
>>>car and for that I am grateful. I also sent Stan some money for a used
>>>standard mainsail and he sent me four.
>>>
>>> Twice I spoke about used boats which I was negotiating to purchase, here
>>>on the list, and both times Stan contacted the sellers and bought
>>>them out from under me. (which is why I did not talk about the e-bay boat
>>>in Bessemer City, NC). I never demanded a voluntary
>>>finder's fee from GB. So, I agree that paying any "volunteered" royalty
>>>or fee to GB for parts or boats sold here on the list is ridiculous....
>>>except in the case where Stan steers buyers to the list.  Since the fees
>>>are voluntary, I don't think Stan should throw it in anyone's face
>>>either if they did not pay--nor do I believe these fees make or break
>>>GB,even in the present economy.
>>>
>>>   Like you Art, I'd guess, there is nothing on any year Rhodes 22 which
>>>I could not fabricate myself (time permitting). I am all for giving Stan
>>>his due, and would
>>>rather buy a part from GB than have to make it myself. I would support
>>>the argument of selling any fabricated "copied" parts here on the
>>>list or otherwise; sans royalty fee, if Stan no longer sells or would
>>>fabricate and obsolete part. I'd imagine if that were the case, he'd
>>>probably
>>>tell you to knock yourself out because you would not be stealing his
>>>business. I started a heated debate over intellectual property rights
>>>when
>>>I created and posted dimensioned drawings of the triad trailer. My
>>>drawings are to benefit the do-it-yourselfers on the list and not to sell
>>>knock-offs.
>>>Nor am I worried about pissing Stan off by not paying a commission,
>>>royalty, "tithe" or 'loyalty' fee lest he refuse to sell me another part.
>>>I would however
>>>worry about him suing me.
>>>
>>>   Stan does have a business to run, and has painted a less than rosy
>>>picture. I can't be the only inquiring mind wanting to know.
>>>
>>>  Todd T
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Arthur H. Czerwonky"
>>>  To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List"
>>>  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
>>>  Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:18:45 -0400 (EDT)
>>>
>>>
>>>  Guys,
>>>
>>>  Like I said once before, if anyone cares to hear more detail on the
>>>  'private and personal issues' that Stan has inappropriately focused
>>>  on in this public forum, please contact me off-line or on the
>>>  phone. Some have done already. He has gotten something off his
>>>  chest. Simply put, there is a "World according to Stan" that is so
>>>  sadly distorted in this case. I'd avoid it for yourself.
>>>
>>>  It is such a waste of your time to fixate on such a trivial matters
>>>  like these. Let's get to the key issues. I suspect Mary Lou made
>>>  an excellent point of support for a payment of a surcharge,
>>>  royalty, or commission for products of non-GB origin that we need
>>>  and purchase for our fleet boats. If this is to be a sincere
>>>  gesture to Stan by fleet members, it should not be limited to
>>>  products supplied by me or anyone who happens to be a member of our
>>>  fleet. When we buy line, SS fixtures, sails, anchors, or any
>>>  equipment for our boats, this would seem to be similar
>>>  justification for an override, a 'loyalty' fee or tithe, if you
>>>  will.
>>>
>>>  Consider this :Two years ago I found it necessary to approach Dwyer
>>>  about replacing my spreader fixtures, distorted after many years of
>>>  mast stepping. We used the rear lower shroud for attachment to the
>>>  crane for lifting the IMF - the GB recommended method as late as
>>>  the '06 Annapolis show. I approached Stan three times over as many
>>>  months, from before that show until before the St Pete show the
>>>  same year, in order to purchase two fixtures at about $40 per, and
>>>  never received any response at all - none, nada, zippo. That seems
>>>  non-responsive. Now, having to go to Dwyer, is a skipper whose
>>>  request has been ignored somehow expected to forward a commission
>>>  fee to Stan? Make your own judgement on what makes sense.
>>>
>>>  If GB needs to be further underwritten and supported, maybe Stan
>>>  should consider making interested investors shareholder/partners in
>>>  GB. As 'stakeholders' in the R22 fleet, maybe this is not so far
>>>  fetched for some of us, although not me. Think about it. There
>>>  ought to be some way we can infuse GB without Stan effectively
>>>  having to seek donations versus legit services. If GB is in a
>>>  financial bind, more is needed than a loyalty fee gesture. This
>>>  is, no doubt, a sensitive issue for him since it could affect GB
>>>  ownership.
>>>
>>>  I am not aware of any manufacturer (picture any of the sailboat
>>>  manufacturers, even Catalina or MacGregor) who expects their
>>>  customers to pay homage to them for after-market sales, maintenance
>>>  or upgrades on their products which are not contracted by the
>>>  manufacturer. Is anyone aware of such an industry obligation?
>>>
>>>  A comment on my work - I am making a tiller cover for Dave, no
>>>  charge, BTW. I have to charge when I make other items, ie the
>>>  Cockpit Enclosure. I have no objection whatever if any client
>>>  wants to project a 10% add-on for Stan. I simply cannot establish
>>>  this 'side account' within my little enterprise, for tax and
>>>  precedent issues. My pledge to you is that you will be using the
>>>  absolute best product at the best cost, no exception. If I cannot
>>>  provide the best value for you I will tell you honestly and decline
>>>  the opportunity until I can, and I have done this. I'll respond
>>>  promptly, by cell usually (I can get to know you and your
>>>  priorities better), and produce with a commit to delivery and cost,
>>>  even if I underestimate. I will treat any work as a priority
>>>  custom crafted and fitted job, no assembly line mentality. I will
>>>  provide more than enough cost advantage to enable to you to send
>>>  Stan his due, but will not define the cost in such a way that
>>>  requires you to. It w!
>>>  ill be your free choice, friends. One additional point - I will
>>>  enjoy making your product, whatever it is, and you will enjoy using
>>>  it - that's just the rule. I will do well with canvas, and don't
>>>  think I will begin producing sailboats...
>>>
>>>  I will make a strong suggestion: Even though PR happenings, like
>>>  the #1 poll results, an impressive 'Good Old Boat' writeup in ~
>>>  '05, and the 'Sailing' p52 piece are good and free advertising,
>>>  some form of paid advertising seems long overdue if the GB goal is
>>>  increased boat orders and boat production. Many of us found the
>>>  R22 by sheer chance. Why put 'the bar' so low on purpose (BTW,
>>>  with no reference to Rummy)?
>>>
>>>  Once again, time for an aspirin...
>>>
>>>  Stan for Vice President, Rose for Ms. America!
>>>
>>>  Art
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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