[Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses

Sat Jul 18 00:14:59 EDT 2009

My position on this has also never changed: I always go to GB first for any parts or add-ons for the boat.  Generally great service, the best knowledge and the right part when you need it.  I just bought my new genoa from GB, knowingly paying more because I knew it would fit or if it didn't that Stan would help me get it right which is exactly what happened.  I really value GB and what they do.  It is only when I go to GB and they cannot help that I go elsewhere - the boom room is a good example where I was told it was too expensive and not available and so was glad to hear that Art could provide one.  

Bob K

> From: benonvelvetelvis at theskinnyonbenny.com
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:25:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
> 
> I don't know how far down the road it will be, but there's a boom room in my
> future, and there's no chance that I buy it from anyone other than GB
> (provided they're still around, of course).
> 
> When we wanted to buy a boat, GB provided the lender additional paperwork
> that got us a lower interest rate.
> 
> When the boat was delivered, Elton stayed for three days making corrections,
> because he didn't like a couple of minor things that were non-standard in
> the cabin layout.
> 
> When Hurricane Katrina rose the waterline to well beyond the top of the boat
> + lines, twisted the mast into a pretzel, ripped off the hatches, and put
> her back down sideways (and of course, unsinking) into the water, GB went
> through every product on the market that would attempt to remove barnicles.
> They restored her to new, and they worked with me to figure out a way to do
> it with what my insurance would cover.
> 
> After that, GB shipped me a new rudder. Never made it past Raleigh, and UPS
> could never explain why. So Stan ate the cost of the rudder and gave me
> another one.
> 
> This group of us is fortunate to have a vendor who has given us his home
> phone number, provided free lodging at his facility, and done everything you
> could possibly ask. We will never get the level of service from any company
> again that we enjoy from GB right now. I, for one, won't spend any time
> shopping around in order to save a few bucks on parts or toys to add to my
> boat.
> 
> Ben
> R22 Velvet Elvis
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Mary Lou Troy
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:07
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
> 
> We hadn't intended to comment on this exchange but when you step in a 
> hornets nest sometimes you are compelled to do things you wouldn't 
> ordinarily do.
> 
> If and when we decide to get a new pop-top enclosure (or a new to us, 
> used pop-top enclosure like our current one - purchased from GB that 
> has given us a number of years of service and which I have customized 
> to our needs) we plan to look at the available options from General 
> Boats and other vendors. We will purchase the item that best fits our 
> needs based on features and price point. If we purchase a pop-top 
> enclosure from another vendor particularly a vendor that has worked 
> with GB in the past, we would make sure that GB gets their commission 
> whether it is included in the vendor's price for the product or 
> whether we send it directly to General Boats. We would encourage 
> other Rhodes 22 owners to do the same.
> 
> Mary Lou and Fred
> the very pleased owners since 1998
> of Fretless, a 1991 Rhodes 22
> recycled by General Boats in 1998
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:25 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote:
> >Dear Rhodies:
> >
> >Art says we are boring you all with this issue, that it is a private,
> >personal matter and not appropriate to discuss in this forum. He is
> >incorrect. It is a fundamental issue to GB's well being and therefore to
> >you, to the extent of your interest in your Rhodes. We suggest you hear
> it
> >out until resolved one way or another.
> >
> >Should you need a new IMF mast or centerboard or rudder blade or endless
> >other unique parts that Art or others do not choose to invest in producing
> -
> >and GB is not here, no one is going to be able to make your boat whole
> >again. There is good reason why most of us would not buy a car that is
> out
> >of production - there is certainly good reason why the Rhodes is not only
> >easy to sell but also demands a premium price over boats no longer being
> >built. The former editor of Practical Sailor, in his book recommending
> >trailer sailboats, ends his list by pointing out that the Rhodes is the
> only
> >suggested choice still in production.
> >
> >If not for the many private sellers and purchasers going along with the
> >voluntary GB loyalty/royalty program (which incidentally, Art, who has
> >purchased and sold several Rhodes privately, would not agree to) and not
> for
> >parts sales such as Pop Top enclosures (which, incidentally, we have
> $10,000
> >worth of sitting here in inventory), in an economy such as this, where not
> a
> >single new boat is being sold, GB would have no choice but to abandon this
> >ship.
> >
> >
> >OK, you can stop reading here. But for anyone wanting to understand why we
> >are so troubled by this particular Parts issue, a little background on an
> >agreement that, we now learn from Art's e-mail to the List, has
> >unilaterally "mutually" agreed to have ended:
> >Art worked on this project inside the GB plant, used the GB
> "not-the-Hilton"
> >facilities, displayed the product in hard to get and costly water space
> that
> >GB worked out during the Annapolis Boat Show and that GB ended up paying
> >for, including even an additional day that Art unilaterally elected to
> take.
> >At the St. Petersburg Show, where after several years of trying, we managed
> >a valuable water space, after hearing Art had his boat in FL, we asked if
> he
> >would like to promote the boom room at this show. We returned Dr. Fullers'
> >beautiful new boat that we had planned to use for demos from this space in
> >favor of Art using it with the understanding that we could use his boat for
> >an occasional demo for a qualified pending prospect. When Elton did take a
> >prospect to Art's boat he found Art was not honoring the Show hours and the
> >boat was chain-locked to the dock. Art's position, "No one sails my boat".
> >When we did mange Art to give a demo sail we explained to him that part of
> >the demonstration is that we go in and out of the large harbor under sail
> as
> >the competition does and that demos are only an hour in case another hot
> >prospect comes along. Art refused to sail and each time went to and from
> >the bay under power. I suppose once sailing he was in his element since he
> >stayed away for hours and few demos were done during the show. Art's
> >remarkable position: He was a volunteer and could therefore make his own
> >rules - just like volunteers for the army or the Red Cross. Elton finally
> >blew his top when, after arranging for our hottest prospect to make a long
> >trip back to St. Petersburg on Sunday for a demo sail, Art announced that
> he
> >was leaving the show a day early - after all he was a volunteer and could
> >make his own rules from moment to moment. I certainly felt like an idiot
> >not having put Dr. Fuller's boat in that precious dock space. I do not
> >know if Art ever did show the boom room.
> >
> >
> >The deal with Art pertained only to the boom room, with shared income from
> >its sales. It was not for competing with other parts like the Pop Top
> >enclosures which we have an inventory investment in. Of course it is a
> >free country and a free market and, of course, we all have seen what
> >unregulated "freedom" can do to our economy. To believe GB has the
> freedom
> >to keep investing in new ideas and keep investing in promoting the boat and
> >taking care of current Rhodies' needs, for the non-rewarding benefit of
> >private re-sales and parts sales for others to profit from, is a fantasy.
> >It is important for us to have your feedback on these kind of issues. We
> >need the support of our owners if we are to keep worrying and working to
> >keep our owners sailing and keep the value of their boats growing. Or do
> we
> >just stop being so damn conscientious and say the hell with it and go
> >sailing ourselves? (No need for us to hear Rummy's answer to that last
> >question.)
> >
> >stan/gbi
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "cowie" <ccowie at cowieassociates.com>
> >To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:36 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] the war of the rhodeses
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I had the pleasure of deploying my Bimini and pop top enclosure on my
> > > recent
> > > trip to st Michaels. Both worked great. I understand Stan has recently
> > > improved the fit of the pop top enclosure and his guys did a great job
> on
> > > the custom installation. While I could have ordered certain items
> direct
> > > I
> > > have made a point to go thru general boats. I think it's neat that I
> own
> > > a
> > > boat that was concieved the same I was and hope to help it keep going
> for
> > > another fifty.
> > >
> > > stanleyl wrote:
> > >>
> > >> OK gang, it looks like Art and I are going to take up the slack left by
> > >> the withdrawal of the political junkies. At first I thought we should
> > >> label these upcoming e-mail missives so you can delete before reading.
> > >> But on reflection, what is going to be covered gets to the business
> > >> basics
> > >> of General Boats and its future.
> > >>
> > >> Art will be a formable opponent in this case, having graduated from the
> > >> Academy vs. my not being able to get beyond the "Petty" ranking due to
> a
> > >> Navy designated overbite. My protestation that I did not plan to bite
> > >> the
> > >> enemy fell on deaf ears. I think being able to hear was not one of the
> > >> requirements, as the unraveling facts in this case will bring out.
> > >>
> > >> In Art's opening remarks he says that the business terms with General
> > >> Boats had been voided. As proof he waves a blank paper that he has in
> > >> his
> > >> hand about a sale GB nixed but he salvaged. GB will show a timeline
> and
> > >> investments that will paint another picture. The importance of this
> > >> small
> > >> claims case is seen in Art's 7/12/09 e-mail to Mary Lou - the tip of a
> > >> collectively growing ice burg that can sink the Rhodes You may want to
> > >> stay tuned to be informed by GB, Art, and fellow Rhodies, to draw your
> > >> own
> > >> conclusions.
> > >>
> > >> stan/general boats
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> > >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > View this message in context:
> > > http://www.nabble.com/the-war-of-the-rhodeses-tp24461657p24470681.html
> > > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> > > http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> > > __________________________________________________
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> >to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >__________________________________________________
> >
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