[Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)

[Rick]

David,

When I was considering buying my R22, the PO said, "I can give you the home
phone number of the guy who makes the boat and he will talk to you at any
time."  Of course, that tilted me to buy his boat and subsequently buy many
things from Stan.

Are you suggesting Stan discontinues this attractive offering in the
shrunken marketplace for pocket cruiser sailboats?  I think it will just
turn customers toward high volume boats where technical information and
spare parts are readily available.

Rick

On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 4:49 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com> wrote:

> Stan:
>
> Thank you for your insight into the business.  I dare say that most
> sailboat
> owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the factory; if the
> factory is even still in business that is.
>
> I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program concerning the Rhodes.  My
> experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used boat purchaser
> always spends the maximum funds set aside for the purchase.  Either the
> purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or the new owner
> takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat needs.  And we all
> know that used boats need something all the time.
>
> It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from a new owner 5 %
> of
> the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably spent more money
> then they intended to begin with.  The Rhodes 22 is the top of the scale in
> 22' boats and used prices are not cheap.  We see it all the time on the
> list...  Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are trying to purchase
> it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list either saving up
> their
> cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale whereby they promptly
> go
> off-list and complete the transaction.
>
> You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for $ 200.00 to cover
> the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5% of the price I
> paid.  In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical support that I have
> received as a member of the list from the owners and from yourself.  That
> is
> worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the beginning.   This
> boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.
>
> I propose and this will make some people on this list unhappy, in fact,
> very
> unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.  For that annual
> fee,
> you have got to provide something however.  Which is another problem with a
> royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they are getting
> something for their money.   In this case, for the annual association fee:
>
> Admission to the list
> Technical support either from members or the factory
> Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that is kept up to date
> so I can purchase it from you if I need something.
>
>
> Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what we are doing
> already.  Maybe you could come up with some member specials on pricing from
> time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional article that only
> members would get.  I don't want to burden you with a bunch of extra work,
> but there needs to be something unique about membership.  In this way, the
> new owner would feel they are getting something and it would generate
> revenue for you over the longer term.  As part of the membership, if we
> agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell, then I don't have a
> problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate sell the boat.
>  I'll
> even stipulate it in my will.  I figure if I owe a "loyalty fee", it is
> probably to the list members who have taken their time and been so helpful
> over the years.  If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep GBI in business
> then that helps them and you.  As a seller, if I pay 5% then it gets my
> buyer on the list free for two years.  Then he/she can do the responsible
> thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.
>
> The other situation which started the discussion in the beginning has to do
> with after-market products or other parts unique to the Rhodes.  If a
> member
> has an after-market item to sell to the list which is unique to the Rhodes
> and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then he/she goes
> through you.  They can advertise it and discuss it; but I buy it from you
> after you have added your mark up or it cannot be advertised on the
> member's
> list by another member or by a third party.  Simple as that.  They are a
> supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to me.  Obviously,
> the
> list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent direct marketing
> by a third party.  If a member tries to go behind your back... we can take
> care of that.  If something comes up for sale on the open-market that is
> unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then that is a
> discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.
>
> Right now MJM is administering the list.  I think he or whomever takes on
> those duties gets their membership free.
>
> I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement and if it is of
> interest, let us know what you think the annual membership fee should be.
>
> For everyone else, let the flaming begin....  But just keep in mind what
> the
> purpose is here.  Trying to come up with something palatable to help GBI
> now
> and us in the long run.
>
> David
>
> PS:
>
> Other thoughts:  The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" one of the best I
> have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.  However, it needs some
> polish to be a more effective marketing tool.  More timely information and
> more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of used boats comes
> to
> mind since new boat sales are down.  Also, have you ever considered a new
> "entry level"  boat without all the bells and whistles which someone could
> purchase at a bit lower price?  You've talked about a racer before.  Could
> you come up with something without having to have new molds-marketed as a
> "Sport" Rhodes 22?   Lower the interior weight, put a standard mast and
> racing sails on it and a spinaker.  Catalina has a "sport model" and it
> does
> pretty well I think.  Just some ideas I have batted around. dc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
> From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com>
> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
> To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your forum
> on an issue that is so basic to GB.
>
> We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to be
> evenhanded.  (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
> witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)
>
> We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
> silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same.   It was
> not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of  "never again" and took
> on anyone who wronged us:  A policeman.  A lawyer.  a station wagon full of
> nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation to
> docketing at the US Supreme Court.   We prevailed in all these pro se
> actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
> solidly on our side - but we digress.
>
> And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical side
> of our position and offered suggestions.
>
>
> Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program:   Its reasoning seems so
> correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent.  Those thinking us crazy for
> such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
> Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry who
> have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters seem to
> be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which industries should
> not be entitled to residuals on their efforts.   Those in this group have
> but to request and we will expand on the good sense of this program.   It
> has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of the "You must be
> crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List" family, seeing the
> light and converting.
>
> Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
> take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
> come home to bite us all.   ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of
> ole
> PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the ethics I
> saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory.  But it was pre-ordained;
> I
> ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.   And it has been a
> blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made the making of
> money our secondary goal.   (The effects of that kind of religious fervor
> has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.)   There are ways
> we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the profitable parts side of
> GB's business::
>
> When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
> elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
> expense.  Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford, simply
> raised the price of his boat and included sails.  Being the tough business
> man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
> inventories they bought elsewhere.  We are slow learners but could price
> Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto.    Or,
>
> We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique
> to
> the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to honor
> agreements with GB.   We inherently do not like this retaliatory type of
> solution, but it is a solution.   Or
>
> We could simply close shop and that would close the market for unauthorized
> parts vendors.   This "cutting off ones nose" solution is not our choice.
>  However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the life cash flow
> of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.
>
>
> In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking of
> List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
> proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
> feedback.  The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
> questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate
> to
> be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't seem
> to
> manage all of this issue in one sitting.
>
> ss
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