[Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)

[Alan Robertson]

Fellow Rhodies:
   Stan and Elton have been so good to me re. parts sales and tech support over the past 26 seasons of our Rhodes ownership that I'd gladly pay annual dues to GB, say $25+ to keep the service going. For years Stan kept a poster picture of our boat I sent him in the office vestibule and I wonder if he'd like pictures of all our boats so a montage could be made of them. Impressive for Eden factory visitors to see and of course for display at the the boat shows?

Alan "Doc" Robertson
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Culp<mailto:dculp at hsbtx.com> 
  To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> 
  Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)


  Stan:

  Thank you for your insight into the business.  I dare say that most sailboat
  owners don't get the inside track on happenings at the factory; if the
  factory is even still in business that is.

  I want to comment on the loyalty/royalty program concerning the Rhodes.  My
  experience in boat ownership over the years is that a used boat purchaser
  always spends the maximum funds set aside for the purchase.  Either the
  purchase price and the taxes consume the entire amount or the new owner
  takes any funds left and applies them to things the boat needs.  And we all
  know that used boats need something all the time.

  It is a bit of a sticky wicket let's say, to request from a new owner 5 % of
  the purchase price be paid to GBI when they have probably spent more money
  then they intended to begin with.  The Rhodes 22 is the top of the scale in
  22' boats and used prices are not cheap.  We see it all the time on the
  list...  Folks are interested in the Rhodes but they are trying to purchase
  it on a "Catalina" budget; so they "lurk" on the list either saving up their
  cash or hoping to see a cheap boat come up for sale whereby they promptly go
  off-list and complete the transaction.

  You will remember in my case, that I sent GBI a check for $ 200.00 to cover
  the promotional materials you sent me-but that was not 5% of the price I
  paid.  In the meantime, I have enjoyed the technical support that I have
  received as a member of the list from the owners and from yourself.  That is
  worth something, even though I didn't realize it in the beginning.   This
  boat and this list are pretty unique to the boating world.

  I propose and this will make some people on this list unhappy, in fact, very
  unhappy.... An Owner's association with an annual fee.  For that annual fee,
  you have got to provide something however.  Which is another problem with a
  royalty fee upfront; people always need to feel that they are getting
  something for their money.   In this case, for the annual association fee:

  Admission to the list
  Technical support either from members or the factory
  Availability and a price list of parts, sails, etc. that is kept up to date
  so I can purchase it from you if I need something.


  Except for the parts and prices, this is pretty much what we are doing
  already.  Maybe you could come up with some member specials on pricing from
  time to time for sails or parts or write an occasional article that only
  members would get.  I don't want to burden you with a bunch of extra work,
  but there needs to be something unique about membership.  In this way, the
  new owner would feel they are getting something and it would generate
  revenue for you over the longer term.  As part of the membership, if we
  agree to give you 5% of the selling price when we sell, then I don't have a
  problem with it; especially if the list helps my estate sell the boat.  I'll
  even stipulate it in my will.  I figure if I owe a "loyalty fee", it is
  probably to the list members who have taken their time and been so helpful
  over the years.  If paying you a "royalty" fee helps keep GBI in business
  then that helps them and you.  As a seller, if I pay 5% then it gets my
  buyer on the list free for two years.  Then he/she can do the responsible
  thing and start paying their own royalty/loyalty dues.

  The other situation which started the discussion in the beginning has to do
  with after-market products or other parts unique to the Rhodes.  If a member
  has an after-market item to sell to the list which is unique to the Rhodes
  and/or would normally be available from GBI for sale, then he/she goes
  through you.  They can advertise it and discuss it; but I buy it from you
  after you have added your mark up or it cannot be advertised on the member's
  list by another member or by a third party.  Simple as that.  They are a
  supplier of General Boats and you are the distributor to me.  Obviously, the
  list membership information is kept proprietary to prevent direct marketing
  by a third party.  If a member tries to go behind your back... we can take
  care of that.  If something comes up for sale on the open-market that is
  unique to the Rhodes 22 and there are legal issues, then that is a
  discussion for lawyers and not for this forum.

  Right now MJM is administering the list.  I think he or whomever takes on
  those duties gets their membership free.

  I hope you will take these suggestions under advisement and if it is of
  interest, let us know what you think the annual membership fee should be.

  For everyone else, let the flaming begin....  But just keep in mind what the
  purpose is here.  Trying to come up with something palatable to help GBI now
  and us in the long run.

  David

  PS:

  Other thoughts:  The Rhodes 22 website is "technically" one of the best I
  have ever seen as far as the boat information goes.  However, it needs some
  polish to be a more effective marketing tool.  More timely information and
  more emphasis on the recycle program and availability of used boats comes to
  mind since new boat sales are down.  Also, have you ever considered a new
  "entry level"  boat without all the bells and whistles which someone could
  purchase at a bit lower price?  You've talked about a racer before.  Could
  you come up with something without having to have new molds-marketed as a
  "Sport" Rhodes 22?   Lower the interior weight, put a standard mast and
  racing sails on it and a spinaker.  Catalina has a "sport model" and it does
  pretty well I think.  Just some ideas I have batted around. dc







  Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:46:52 -0400
  From: "stan" <stan at rhodes22.com<mailto:stan at rhodes22.com>>
  Subject: [Rhodes22-list] general boat's complaint (continued)
  To: "The Rhodes 22 mail list" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>>
  Message-ID: <038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes<mailto:038FA83D95464CCFB609CA722206B2D8 at rhodes>>
  Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

  Rose and I want to thank you all for indulging GB in the use of your forum
  on an issue that is so basic to GB.

  We want to thank those that take issue with our position but attempt to be
  evenhanded.  (If academically interested, we can provide exhibits and
  witnesses that prove the accuracy of our facts.)

  We are empathetic with those who chafe at this sort of thing and remain
  silent - in our younger days we probably would have done the same.   It was
  not until 50 that we adopted our tribe's slogan of  "never again" and took
  on anyone who wronged us:  A policeman.  A lawyer.  a station wagon full of
  nuns (just kidding about the station wagon), a giant corporation to
  docketing at the US Supreme Court.   We prevailed in all these pro se
  actions simply because we do not complain unless the facts and logic are
  solidly on our side - but we digress.

  And, in particular, we want to thank those who understand the logical side
  of our position and offered suggestions.


  Re the issue of the Loyalty/Royalty program:   Its reasoning seems so
  correct that it is hard to comprehend dissent.  Those thinking us crazy for
  such radical thinking have to sit in this chair for just one day.
  Interestingly, dissenters enjoy products from many segments of industry who
  have already worked out such support programs, yet these dissenters seem to
  be drawing their own grandfather clause line as to which industries should
  not be entitled to residuals on their efforts.   Those in this group have
  but to request and we will expand on the good sense of this program.   It
  has been emotionally gratifying seeing former members of the "You must be
  crazy" society, when, becoming members of the "List" family, seeing the
  light and converting.

  Re the issue of the 50 years creating a unique product now having others
  take bites of its parts for their unilateral gain, if not resolved, will
  come home to bite us all.   ( When I walked out of the hallowed halls of ole
  PU I vowed not to go into business because I could not stand the ethics I
  saw, and assumed, had to go with that territory.  But it was pre-ordained; I
  ended up spending most of my life a driving capitalist.   And it has been a
  blast, for me and my partner of 60 years - because we made the making of
  money our secondary goal.   (The effects of that kind of religious fervor
  has surprisingly turned out to be rough on our opponents.)   There are ways
  we can go to stop the taking of free bites of the profitable parts side of
  GB's business::

  When we sold Venture Sailboats (Macgregor), dealers could buy sails
  elsewhere and make an additional profit on Roger's creation at Roger's
  expense.  Roger, who graduated at the top of his class at Stamford, simply
  raised the price of his boat and included sails.  Being the tough business
  man he is, he did it without notice and dealers had to eat their sail
  inventories they bought elsewhere.  We are slow learners but could price
  Rhodes sales to include a part an outside seller has latched onto.    Or,

  We could simply be unresponsive to boat owners who purchase parts, unique to
  the Rhodes design, from others in competition with GB or who fail to honor
  agreements with GB.   We inherently do not like this retaliatory type of
  solution, but it is a solution.   Or

  We could simply close shop and that would close the market for unauthorized
  parts vendors.   This "cutting off ones nose" solution is not our choice.
   However, not taking on rogue suppliers, eating away at the life cash flow
  of the company, makes it an inevitable solution.


  In an effort to avoid any of the above solutions, based on the thinking of
  List members in this particular complaint of GB vs. Art C, we have some
  proposals that we will present to the List next week for your appreciated
  feedback.  The pro bono time we are having to devote to the problems and
  questions of private sale Rhodes is becoming so overwhelming (and we hate to
  be mean spirited enough to tell them where to go) that we just can't seem to
  manage all of this issue in one sitting.

  ss
  __________________________________________________
  To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list<http://www.rhodes22.org/list>
  __________________________________________________