[Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and elimination of compressi...

Tue Jun 2 17:48:38 EDT 2009

Great topic to open the season for many of us up "NORT". I have been 
sailing for many years and now have a beginner's badge. "Tuning" the 
rigging has always been a concern. Over the years my brute strength and 
ignorance methods have created many interesting moments. My wife seldom 
enjoys the thrill of sailing because of frequent experiences. The 
shrouds have not been abused by me, to my knowledge. But, to get a 
tight head stay and allow the furling system to perform smoothly I have 
cranked in the split back stays so a pluck of the stay(s) vibrates a 
three octive "C' tone.  Cool until you go below and the base your mast 
support that is supported on the cabin sole (floor) is bowed downward 
in a "U" shape. Oops! Live, learn and write the checks. This site is a 
great resource of information, but, the information I get from our 
tendor mates (Mary Lou) send to have more common sense and less 
testosterone. Have GREAT summer. Jim J

Quoting David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com>:
> John:
> I have a Loos gauge that I use to balance the rig as well.  I think you have
> your rig too tight based on the numbers you quoted.  In fact, I don't pay
> much attention to the numbers I get on a particular shroud except as a
> comparison to their opposite counterpart. 
>
> Stan has advised that the factory recommendation is "hand tight" on the
> shrouds.  I would have to look at the Loos instruction pamplet again but I
> believe that the recommendation from Loos is that the lee shrouds should be
> at "zero" tension when the boat is healed over at its max angle.  Let's call
> "zero" as being slack and anything less then that being "loose".  After
> raising the mast, I go out and sail the rig a few times watching the
> shrouds.  At max heal angle with all sails hoisted, I just begin to see a
> little looseness, just slightly beyond slack so that I can see it.  I can't
> get there. with merely hand tight usually.  Don't tell Stan, but I hold the
> top of the turnbuckle with a small wrench and give it about 1/2 or a full
> turn tighter with my hand to get it where I want it.  Stan's hands maybe
> stronger then mine is how I rationalize it. 
>
> Anyway, my rig is still basically "hand tight" but meets the Loos philosophy
> of not going too loose and mast pumping.  My numbers are a lot less then
> yours.  Who knows what kind of a rig Loos based their numbers on?
>  Personally,  I would not use their recommendations unless I had a reason
> and a keel-stepped mast and then I would loosen it every time I berthed the
> boat.  I have already observed first hand what an over-tightened rig can do
> to a cabin-stepped mast.  Maybe your top is OK now, but what about the
> chain-plates that you can't see?   I think Loos is good for racers and
> anyone else demanding consistent, peak performance and willing to pay for
> the consequences.  I'm not sure that our boat qualifies as a "racer" though
> I do pretty well against all the comparable ones on my lake even at hand
> tight. 
>
> I don't remember my Loos numbers but I think I am less then half of what you
> are at, maybe 180 at most.  I'll check them if you are interested in
> knowing. 
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:30:02 EDT
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and
>        elimination of  compressi... 
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <c4f.468f947f.3756916a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Having no experience with the loos gauge puts me at a disadvantage. I can
> tell you that my method of testing is done by touch. My stays are taught,
> but  not tight. I test each of them until I think they are all about the
> same,
> being  careful not to over tighten. I start with each turn buckle at the
> same point and  then I and another person count rotations making sure they
> are
> the same. I  repeat this with each one. My leeward stays are always loose
> when the sails are  filled. That's the way they are supposed to be. 
> Roger was a wonderful resource on this list, but please keep in mind that
> he is an engineer. My experience with engineers, including Roger, is that
> they  have an extreme tendency to over think things and make them much more
> difficult  than they need be. 
> I would be concerned about the crack that has widened. The crack tells me
> that at one time the stays were to tight otherwise the crack never would
> have  appeared. Keep in mind the geometry of the deck and hull and how they
> all
> work  together. 
> Good luck and I'm envious that you are out sailing and I'm waiting for
> paint to dry. 
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:57:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> jsbudda at verizon.net writes:
>
>
> Rummy,
>
> Glad to see you have a lake with water and a  shinny new boat to play with
> (nice color) hope the weather cooperates. 
> The loos gauge applies a transverse tension on the wire being tested.  The
> wire is pulled with a set amount of force and the amount of deflection  is
> measured on a scale which translates to lbs of force. I take the  accuracy
> of
> those numbers with a teaspoon of salt but to obtain the same  number on all
> four baby stays and the 2 side stays indicate balanced  tension throughout
> the rigging system. I order to get a consistent reading  you must try to
> measure each wire at the same point on its length as close  to the center
> point as can be safely reached by standing on the  deck. 
>
> John Shulick
>
>
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >
> >  John,
> > Your numbers from the loos gauge mean absolutely nothing to me,  but your
>
> > comment about a 1000 pounds of pressure on the mast  support troubles me. 
> > Anyone  else have any thoughts or  experience with the loos gauge?
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/1/2009 11:01:33 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time,
> > jsbudda at verizon.net writes:
> >
> >
> > Hi  all,
> >
> > The boat has been in the water for  three weeks now and the rigging  has
> > bin
> > tightened  gradually to what I consider normal. In that time the  boat has
> >  been hit by several cold fronts sweeping through the area with  winds  of
> > 30
> > mph with gusts to 50. I've been out sailing (10 to 15  with  gusts)
> trying
> > out
> > my new mainsail from sailcare.  and can report no problems  aside from
> > getting
> > used to  some squeaks and groans as the 34 year old cabin  adjusts to the
> >  new
> > load. The interior picture shows the arch under a mast  load  of approx
> > 1000
> > lbs. 
> > 120 on the baby stays  and 240 on  the side stays as measured on the loos
> > gage. 
> >
> > John  Shulick
> >  http://www.nabble.com/file/p23825735/DSCF0298.jpeg
> >
> >
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