[Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and elimination of compressi...
R22RumRunner at aol.com
R22RumRunner at aol.com
Tue Jun 2 20:09:26 EDT 2009
Jimmy J,
No male testosterone here. Nothing to prove to anybody. I've owned my R22
for 15 years and have been a member of this forum in one way or another for
that same period. Opinions are varied. I'm simply relating what works for
me. I also have the experience of knowing several owners who tightened their
stays to the point that they did significant damage to their hulls. I'm
simply saying that there is no known statistic for the R22 using the Loos
gauge. Certainly nothing from General Boats. Common sense wins out on this
topic. Taking nothing away from Mary Lou.
Time to have a rum and diet coke.... or two....or three...........
Rummy
In a message dated 6/2/2009 5:49:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jimtracyjohnston at centurytel.net writes:
Great topic to open the season for many of us up "NORT". I have been
sailing for many years and now have a beginner's badge. "Tuning" the
rigging has always been a concern. Over the years my brute strength and
ignorance methods have created many interesting moments. My wife seldom
enjoys the thrill of sailing because of frequent experiences. The
shrouds have not been abused by me, to my knowledge. But, to get a
tight head stay and allow the furling system to perform smoothly I have
cranked in the split back stays so a pluck of the stay(s) vibrates a
three octive "C' tone. Cool until you go below and the base your mast
support that is supported on the cabin sole (floor) is bowed downward
in a "U" shape. Oops! Live, learn and write the checks. This site is a
great resource of information, but, the information I get from our
tendor mates (Mary Lou) send to have more common sense and less
testosterone. Have GREAT summer. Jim J
Quoting David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com>:
> John:
> I have a Loos gauge that I use to balance the rig as well. I think you
have
> your rig too tight based on the numbers you quoted. In fact, I don't pay
> much attention to the numbers I get on a particular shroud except as a
> comparison to their opposite counterpart.
>
> Stan has advised that the factory recommendation is "hand tight" on the
> shrouds. I would have to look at the Loos instruction pamplet again but
I
> believe that the recommendation from Loos is that the lee shrouds should
be
> at "zero" tension when the boat is healed over at its max angle. Let's
call
> "zero" as being slack and anything less then that being "loose". After
> raising the mast, I go out and sail the rig a few times watching the
> shrouds. At max heal angle with all sails hoisted, I just begin to see
a
> little looseness, just slightly beyond slack so that I can see it. I
can't
> get there. with merely hand tight usually. Don't tell Stan, but I hold
the
> top of the turnbuckle with a small wrench and give it about 1/2 or a full
> turn tighter with my hand to get it where I want it. Stan's hands maybe
> stronger then mine is how I rationalize it.
>
> Anyway, my rig is still basically "hand tight" but meets the Loos
philosophy
> of not going too loose and mast pumping. My numbers are a lot less then
> yours. Who knows what kind of a rig Loos based their numbers on?
> Personally, I would not use their recommendations unless I had a
reason
> and a keel-stepped mast and then I would loosen it every time I berthed
the
> boat. I have already observed first hand what an over-tightened rig can
do
> to a cabin-stepped mast. Maybe your top is OK now, but what about the
> chain-plates that you can't see? I think Loos is good for racers and
> anyone else demanding consistent, peak performance and willing to pay for
> the consequences. I'm not sure that our boat qualifies as a "racer"
though
> I do pretty well against all the comparable ones on my lake even at hand
> tight.
>
> I don't remember my Loos numbers but I think I am less then half of what
you
> are at, maybe 180 at most. I'll check them if you are interested in
> knowing.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:30:02 EDT
> From: R22RumRunner at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Re design of Rhodes Interior and
> elimination of compressi...
> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> Message-ID: <c4f.468f947f.3756916a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Having no experience with the loos gauge puts me at a disadvantage. I can
> tell you that my method of testing is done by touch. My stays are taught,
> but not tight. I test each of them until I think they are all about the
> same,
> being careful not to over tighten. I start with each turn buckle at the
> same point and then I and another person count rotations making sure
they
> are
> the same. I repeat this with each one. My leeward stays are always loose
> when the sails are filled. That's the way they are supposed to be.
> Roger was a wonderful resource on this list, but please keep in mind that
> he is an engineer. My experience with engineers, including Roger, is that
> they have an extreme tendency to over think things and make them much
more
> difficult than they need be.
> I would be concerned about the crack that has widened. The crack tells me
> that at one time the stays were to tight otherwise the crack never would
> have appeared. Keep in mind the geometry of the deck and hull and how
they
> all
> work together.
> Good luck and I'm envious that you are out sailing and I'm waiting for
> paint to dry.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/2009 9:57:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> jsbudda at verizon.net writes:
>
>
> Rummy,
>
> Glad to see you have a lake with water and a shinny new boat to play
with
> (nice color) hope the weather cooperates.
> The loos gauge applies a transverse tension on the wire being tested.
The
> wire is pulled with a set amount of force and the amount of deflection
is
> measured on a scale which translates to lbs of force. I take the
accuracy
> of
> those numbers with a teaspoon of salt but to obtain the same number on
all
> four baby stays and the 2 side stays indicate balanced tension
throughout
> the rigging system. I order to get a consistent reading you must try to
> measure each wire at the same point on its length as close to the center
> point as can be safely reached by standing on the deck.
>
> John Shulick
>
>
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
> >
> > John,
> > Your numbers from the loos gauge mean absolutely nothing to me, but
your
>
> > comment about a 1000 pounds of pressure on the mast support troubles
me.
> > Anyone else have any thoughts or experience with the loos gauge?
> >
> > Rummy
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/1/2009 11:01:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > jsbudda at verizon.net writes:
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The boat has been in the water for three weeks now and the rigging
has
> > bin
> > tightened gradually to what I consider normal. In that time the boat
has
> > been hit by several cold fronts sweeping through the area with winds
of
> > 30
> > mph with gusts to 50. I've been out sailing (10 to 15 with gusts)
> trying
> > out
> > my new mainsail from sailcare. and can report no problems aside from
> > getting
> > used to some squeaks and groans as the 34 year old cabin adjusts to
the
> > new
> > load. The interior picture shows the arch under a mast load of
approx
> > 1000
> > lbs.
> > 120 on the baby stays and 240 on the side stays as measured on the
loos
> > gage.
> >
> > John Shulick
> > http://www.nabble.com/file/p23825735/DSCF0298.jpeg
> >
> >
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