[Rhodes22-list] Demasting

Chris Cowie ccowie at cowieassociates.com
Mon Aug 16 15:22:44 EDT 2010 

A recent new Rhodes included a bow sprit type anchor attachment that is secured to the bow/deck area and includes a bridle to allow attachement of the forestay.  I believe Stan did the installation.

Christopher P. Cowie    


4400 MacArthur Blvd, NW 
Suite 300 
Washington, DC  20007 
202.342.2711 
202.342.2691 fax 
202.270.1470 mobile 

[ccowie at cowieassociates.com]
cowieassociates.com


-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of John Lock
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 10:53 AM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Demasting

Clearly attaching the forestay in that manner was dangerously  
inadequate.  That part of the deck is not reinforced to handle the  
loads generated by a full jib under sail.

Since your boat seems to have something different about the anchor  
installation, you need to consider two alternatives:

1) Remove the anchor and mount it in some other fashion so the  
forestay and can be attached to a bow-mounted chainplate and secured  
properly.

2) Barring that, you should reinforce under the deck where the bolt  
passes thru with some stiff marine plywood or a chainplate and use one  
or two big, wide fender washers under the nut to spread the load out.   
Even so, I'd be cautious about that solution since the deck wasn't  
designed to do that.  You also have a nice hole to leak into the  
forepeak and deck core... sealing will be critical.

Come to think of it... that may be why the rig failed!  Water leaking  
thru that mounting hole softened the deck core and allowed the washer  
and nut to be pulled straight thru.  Better check that area carefully  
and repair the deck core as necessary.

Cheers!
John Lock
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
s/v Pandion - '79 Rhodes 22
Lake Sinclair, GA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


On Aug 15, 2010, at 20:12, bdunn1 at aol.com wrote:
> Fred:  Thank you.  The forestay was not connected to a chain plate.   
> The chain plate was covered with an anchor. Someone drilled a 3/8"  
> hole in the deck and put a 1/2' washer and nut. Pictures will show.  
> I am glad someone wasn't hurt.
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Kaiser <fkaiser2 at gmail.com>
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 15, 2010 7:43 pm
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Demasting
>
>
> I have pulled and re-bedded all ports on Fretless and was not able to
> inspect the chain plates since there is only an inch or so clearance  
> between
> the outer shell and inner liner.  Perhaps a strong light and mirror  
> would
> help locate the chain plates but not sure you would be able to  
> determine
> their condition.
>
> Fred Kaiser
> Fretless
> Rock Hall MD.
>
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 6:57 PM, David Culp <dculp at hsbtx.com> wrote:
>
>> Bill:
>>
>> Very sorry to hear of the incident but very glad to hear that no  
>> one was
>> injured.  I have forgotten what year model you have and how it is  
>> setup.
>> If
>> the forestay mast pin had dislodged and the forestay failed with  
>> the kind
>> of
>> wind force you described, I can see that a weakened chain plate could
>> possibly fail also when it takes on that huge transient load.  I  
>> would have
>> thought that the other stays would have at least kept the mast  
>> intact.  I
>> don't know of any way to inspect the chain plates on the Rhodes  
>> without
>> pulling the windows out and then I am not sure what you can see.   
>> Next trip
>> to the boat, I am going to pull the fore-peak anchor line box and  
>> have a
>> look at my forestay chain-plate anyway.  It may be different then  
>> yours
>> because it doesn't come through a "hole in the deck" that you  
>> describe.  It
>> is mounted as a tab externally.  I have the forestay pin wrapped in  
>> sailing
>> tape so that the cotter can't be removed/dislodged because I have  
>> seen that
>> happen before and then the force on the pin is the only thing  
>> keeping it
>> in.
>>
>> In aircraft, we have inspection covers in strategic locations to  
>> check
>> important components.  This incident makes me wonder whether or not  
>> older
>> boats (of any make) should have the chain-plates looked at.  I had  
>> been
>> holding off doing so because I don't want to pull out a perfectly  
>> good
>> window that isn't leaking just to check.  Maybe some inspection  
>> plates can
>> be cut in the liner to do the same thing and then be trimmed off to  
>> look
>> nice.  Or maybe we are just asking too much of the cabin top stays  
>> in this
>> situation.  Hard to know.  Anyway, pictures would be very much  
>> appreciated
>> as would Stan's take on this incident.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> David Culp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:19:16 -0400
>> From: bdunn1 at aol.com
>> Subject: [Rhodes22-list] Demasting
>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>> Message-ID: <8CD0A0D7C04E52A-1294-8E0B at webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> This is to Stan although other may chime in.  Great sailing today;  
>> boat
>> going 5.0 knots; everyone (wife and daughter) comfortably chatting  
>> when the
>> jib let loose with a "gun-shot bang", went flying over the  
>> starboard side
>> and took and mast with it.  Fortunately, we were on the port side  
>> so no one
>> was hit with stays, etc.   One stay was ripped out of the cabin top  
>> but all
>> others held.    Everything in the water.  Tied it up like an old  
>> whale and
>> motored back to the house dragging the largest sea anchor made.  Took
>> everything apart and discovered the bolt holding the jib was  
>> slightly bent
>> but not broken - mysterious.  ( I will send Stan some pictures).   
>> The hole
>> in the deck was not ripped and I couldn't see under it due to the  
>> anchor
>> line box.
>>
>>
>> I am not certain about the future except it would be good if you  
>> have a
>> boat
>> delivery nearby, or even it you don't, that it could be picked up  
>> and taken
>> back to your shop?  We are on Lake George, NY.  I sold my trailer  
>> since we
>> are on the lake. After you receive the boat we can discuss what is  
>> to be
>> done.
>>
>>
>> regards,
>> Bill Dunn
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