[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

Mon Nov 1 17:47:10 EDT 2010

Chris,
The more you furl the big genoa the more likely that what is left 
unfurled will be baggy and unshapely. It's the bagginess that keeps 
you from pointing as high. The idea with a smaller jib is that you 
won't have to furl it as much and thus it will always have a better 
shape. When we had our jib modified so it would work with the 
Schaeffer Snap-Furl furler, they added a foam luff pad that was 
supposed to take up some of that bagginess. I think it has but the 
genoa is still somewhat blown out. The real difference we see is that 
we replaced our main with the new vertical batten design. I'm not 
sure that the batten has made all that much difference but the new 
crisp unstretched sailcloth is a definite improvement.

The Sailmaster 22 is a Sparkman & Stephens design. As far as I'm 
concerned Phil Rhodes drew many a pretty boat but no one drew a 
prettier sheerline than Sparkman & Stephens. One of my favorites is 
the schooner Brilliant often berthed at Mystic Seaport in CT
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/brilliant.htm

The two books you mentioned are favorites of mine. The first is 
Robert de Gast's book "Western Wind, Eastern Shore" about his 
circumnavigation of the Delmarva Peninsula in his Sailmaster 22. It's 
out of print but is available in some libraries, by interlibrary loan 
and as a used book The second was written by Howard Walker Schindler, 
who was inspired by de Gast to make the same trip and it is called 
"Between Two Bays and the Sea". It is still in print. I only wish 
that Jim Morrison, who used to be a member of this list had written 
about his circumnavigation of the Delmarva in a Rhodes 22.

Best,
Mary Lou

At 04:40 PM 11/1/2010, you wrote:

>Lee:
>
>Do you think a smaller jib has any significant advantage over a furled 175
>genoa?  I suppose the extra material of the genoa rolled up on the headstay
>is a bit sloppy but it doesn't seem like it would have a significant impact
>on pointing ability?  I wondered if perhaps the actual triangular shape of
>the jib versus furled genoa would be much different but I am pretty sure
>both would be identical?  I wish we had better too scale drawings of our
>Rhodes 22 sailboat.  The following is a link to information about the
>sailmaster 22 that includes some nice plan and elevation drawings.  The
>sailmaster is a pretty classic looking boat and seems to have some
>similarities to the rhodes.
>
>http://sailboatdata.com/VIEWRECORD.ASP?CLASS_ID=267
>
>There are a couple of books written about sailing the sailmaster 22 around
>the Delmarva penninsula.  Fun winter time reading.
>
>The NYTimes had an interesting article about sailing a small cape dory boat
>in Lake of the woods Ontario.  The cape dory is also a cute little boat.
>The fixed keep would be a nice feature on those windy and turbulant sea days
>out on the Chesapeake but I wouldn't want to give up the shallow draft
>qualities.  The cape dory link below also includes some nice plan and
>elevation drawings that would be nice to have for the Rhodes.  Maybe a
>winter project for me.
>
>http://www.capedory.org/specs/typhoon.htm
>
>http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/10/31/travel/31lakeofthewoods-explorer.html?ref=travel
>
>
>
>Leland wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > "I have never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close to
> > the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
> >
> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the wind as
> > much as re-routing your sheets.  You still won't be able to pull your
> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your sheets
> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
> >
> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a smaller
> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around the
> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will probably
> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
> >
> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I use the
> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time.  When I do use the full 175% I
> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
> >
> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind performance.
> > 202.476.5369
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> > Kent Island, MD
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rhodes22Dave
> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
> >
> >
> > Interesting. I will try this.  I also thought that re-routing the genoa
> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught.  I have never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close to
> > the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
> > little
> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail area--but
> > at a
> > cost of sail shape with all the furling.  I may get a second R22 and am
> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending jib.
> > But
> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
> > Dave
> >
> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
> >>
> >> I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and I
> > want
> >> to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally" re-routing the
> >> Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
> > upwind
> >> sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but I was
> >> delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't let the
> >> Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt like I
> >> could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new route for
> >> the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in the
> >> shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> BenCittadino
> >>
> >> S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
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> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
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>
>--
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>
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