[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind

David Keyes rhodes22dave at gmail.com
Thu Nov 4 01:01:15 EDT 2010 

Rummy, I think the railings are okay.  They make great hangers for the
fenders at the dock.  [?]
I could do without them, but my wife likes them.  They are handy to lean
against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores about
the boat.
When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with the
175.  They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go in
further anyway.
The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to go
forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it remotely.
However, I would be interested in the views of others that have rails.  I
was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded either
way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely event).
Dave

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:

> Dave,
> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I can
> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for advice
> from
> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22 foot
> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
> understand
> why  they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for you is
> directly  related to the railings. You might want to consider replacing
> your
> furling drum  with one that allows a complete sail change on the fly,
> unlike
> the GB  furler.
>
> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>
>
> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>
> Lee,  thanks for your comments.  I may give you a call, as I will have  to
> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175 I
>  have
> been using.  Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5  mph.
>  Using
> the full 175 was very pleasant.  But in gusty or  changeable winds (our
> most
> common lake condition), and where sailing close  hauled is important, the
> 175
> is simply too much sail area too far forward,  and even when largely
> furled,
> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all  the other boats that I see.
> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see  how I could lead the sheets
> through the inner guides on the deck, inside  the shrouds.  I was surprised
> that you mentioned that the smaller  genoa would be closer to the deck.  I
> haven't seen one, but I assumed  that the 130/140/150 sizes would simply be
> made in their smaller sizes by  shortening or raising the foot of the sail.
>
> I also use my full 175 less  than 20% of the time, and when I am on a reach
> in mild weather conditions,  it is a very nice sail.  So if you can keep a
> decent sail shape and  still furl it way in for other conditions and
> re-route
> the sheets to one of  the inner paths, then it's probably a good
> multi-purpose compromise for a  sail.  80% of the time, I have the genoa
> furled in to greater or  lesser degrees, and I am telling myself that next
> time I am going to have a  smaller sail.
>
> I also have the steel side rails, which are very  convenient, but the
> sheets
> do often catch between the rails and the stays  on tacking, and I have to
> go
> forward and free them up.  This is  avoided by furling in substantially
> just
> before tacking, and then letting  the sail back out, but a smaller sail
> would
> be just that much more  convenient.
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND  <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > "I have  never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as  close to
> > the
> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our  lake."
> >
> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer  to the wind as
> > much as re-routing your sheets.  You still won't  be able to pull your
> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your  boat if your sheets
> > are run outside of the outer  shroud.
> >
> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as  tight as a smaller
> > Genoa.  A smaller Genoa won't have as much  rolled-up bulk around the
> > furler and the sail will be closer to the  deck, which will probably
> > improve performance slightly if you're on a  close reach.
> >
> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller  Genoa is because I use the
> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the  time.  When I do use the full 175% I
> > swear I'll never go with  anything smaller.
> >
> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to  discuss upwind performance.
> > 202.476.5369
> >
> > Good  luck!
> >
> > Lee
> > 1986 Rhodes22  AT EASE
> > Kent  Island, MD
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >  From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> >  [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Rhodes22Dave
> >  Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
> > To:  rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing  Upwind
> >
> >
> > Interesting. I will try this.  I also  thought that re-routing the genoa
> > sheets inside the shrouds would just  get the sail caught.  I have never
> > liked the 175 genoa very much  because I can't sail nearly as close to
> > the
> > wind as any of  hundreds of other sailboats on our lake.  I can do a
> >  little
> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail  area--but
> > at a
> > cost of sail shape with all the furling.   I may get a second R22 and am
> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or  adding the self-tending jib.
> > But
> > what you suggest might be a  solution, at least for long tacks.
> > Dave
> >
> > Ben Cittadino  wrote:
> > >
> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in  NJ this weekend, and I
> > want
> > > to report that I had a  pleasing experience by "finally" re-routing the
> > > Jib (175 Genny)  sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
> > upwind
> > >  sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but I was
> >  > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't let
>  the
> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I  felt like I
> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying  the new route for
> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get  all hung up in the
> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it,  you'll like it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  BenCittadino
> > >
> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled  '08)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
> > > __________________________________________________
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in  context:
> >  http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
> > Sent  from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
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