[Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
Michael D. Weisner
mweisner at ebsmed.com
Thu Nov 4 14:46:39 EDT 2010
Ben,
Most life lines are too low anyway to keep a 6' adult on board.
Now, how about increasing the width of the walkway to accommodate a walker
...
Mike
s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
Nissequogue River, NY
From: "BenCittadino" Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 PM
>
> Rummy & Dave;
>
> I remember being taught in the USN to NEVER sit upon, lean against, or
> even
> touch the life line railings aboard ship. The only time anyone should
> touch
> them is when maintaining or repairing them. The idea is they are only
> there
> as a last resort and if you have to grab them you shouldn't be out there
> to
> begin with.
>
> I would never tell anyone not to have them because if they keep you from
> going overboard only once in twenty years they can be worth the money, but
> remember they are not built for routine daily stress and strain, or
> reliance. You can look at them, but don't touch them 'till you really need
> them.
>
> BenC
> s/v susan kay ('93 recycled '08) (no railings)
>
> R22RumRunner wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>> Unless you have small children, I see no need for the railings. Just my 2
>> cents worth. I like to keep things both simple and clean.
>>
>> Rummy
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/4/2010 1:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Rummy, I think the railings are okay. They make great hangers for the
>> fenders at the dock. [?]
>> I could do without them, but my wife likes them. They are handy to lean
>> against a little, for balance, when cleaning or doing various chores
>> about
>> the boat.
>> When under sail, actually they don't get in the way or interfere with
>> the
>> 175. They virtually touch the outer stays, and the sail could not go in
>> further anyway.
>> The one inconvenience is that the genoa sheet can, in the process of
>> tacking, get wedged in between the stay and the rail, requiring me to go
>> forward and free it, or to jiggle the line and try to fool with it
>> remotely.
>> However, I would be interested in the views of others that have rails.
>> I
>> was planning to order them on my new R22, but I could be persuaded
>> either
>> way, if the Commandant--my wife--could be persuaded (an unlikely event).
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, <R22RumRunner at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave,
>>> The fact that you have the side railings makes your boat a completely
>>> different animal. I have never sailed on one with the railings, but I
>>> can
>>> imagine the problems you will encounter with them. You might ask for
>> advice
>>> from
>>> someone who has the railings. Personally, I don't like them on a 22
>>> foot
>>> sailboat. In fact, I don't even like them on a larger boat, but I
>>> understand
>>> why they might be needed. Your inability to make the 175 work for you
>>> is
>>> directly related to the railings. You might want to consider replacing
>>> your
>>> furling drum with one that allows a complete sail change on the fly,
>>> unlike
>>> the GB furler.
>>>
>>> Rummy.......still waiting for the shuttle to go up.
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/3/2010 12:55:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> rhodes22dave at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Lee, thanks for your comments. I may give you a call, as I will have
>> to
>>> decide which sail to put on my R22 this time, as compared to the 175 I
>>> have
>>> been using. Last weekend the wind was mild but steady--about 5 mph.
>>> Using
>>> the full 175 was very pleasant. But in gusty or changeable winds (our
>>> most
>>> common lake condition), and where sailing close hauled is important,
>>> the
>>> 175
>>> is simply too much sail area too far forward, and even when largely
>>> furled,
>>> the boat doesn't point well--worse than all the other boats that I
>>> see.
>>> Unless the genoa is furled way in, I don't see how I could lead the
>> sheets
>>> through the inner guides on the deck, inside the shrouds. I was
>> surprised
>>> that you mentioned that the smaller genoa would be closer to the deck.
>> I
>>> haven't seen one, but I assumed that the 130/140/150 sizes would
>>> simply
>> be
>>> made in their smaller sizes by shortening or raising the foot of the
>> sail.
>>>
>>> I also use my full 175 less than 20% of the time, and when I am on a
>> reach
>>> in mild weather conditions, it is a very nice sail. So if you can
>>> keep
>> a
>>> decent sail shape and still furl it way in for other conditions and
>>> re-route
>>> the sheets to one of the inner paths, then it's probably a good
>>> multi-purpose compromise for a sail. 80% of the time, I have the
>>> genoa
>>> furled in to greater or lesser degrees, and I am telling myself that
>> next
>>> time I am going to have a smaller sail.
>>>
>>> I also have the steel side rails, which are very convenient, but the
>>> sheets
>>> do often catch between the rails and the stays on tacking, and I have
>>> to
>>> go
>>> forward and free them up. This is avoided by furling in substantially
>>> just
>>> before tacking, and then letting the sail back out, but a smaller sail
>>> would
>>> be just that much more convenient.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:33 PM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dave,
>>> >
>>> > "I have never
>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
>>> > to
>>> > the
>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake."
>>> >
>>> > I don't think a smaller Genoa will help you sail closer to the wind
>>> as
>>> > much as re-routing your sheets. You still won't be able to pull
>>> > your
>>> > jib or smaller Genoa closer to the center of your boat if your
>>> > sheets
>>> > are run outside of the outer shroud.
>>> >
>>> > As for sail shape, you can pull a 175% Genoa just as tight as a
>> smaller
>>> > Genoa. A smaller Genoa won't have as much rolled-up bulk around the
>>> > furler and the sail will be closer to the deck, which will probably
>>> > improve performance slightly if you're on a close reach.
>>> >
>>> > The primary reason I would opt for a smaller Genoa is because I use
>> the
>>> > full 175% sail less than 20% of the time. When I do use the full
>> 175% I
>>> > swear I'll never go with anything smaller.
>>> >
>>> > Feel free to give me a call if you'd like to discuss upwind
>> performance.
>>> > 202.476.5369
>>> >
>>> > Good luck!
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> > 1986 Rhodes22 AT EASE
>>> > Kent Island, MD
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>>> > Rhodes22Dave
>>> > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:51 PM
>>> > To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing Upwind
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Interesting. I will try this. I also thought that re-routing the
>> genoa
>>> > sheets inside the shrouds would just get the sail caught. I have
>> never
>>> > liked the 175 genoa very much because I can't sail nearly as close
>>> > to
>>> > the
>>> > wind as any of hundreds of other sailboats on our lake. I can do a
>>> > little
>>> > better by furling in the genoa to a much smaller exposed sail
>> area--but
>>> > at a
>>> > cost of sail shape with all the furling. I may get a second R22 and
>> am
>>> > thinking of getting a smaller genoa--or adding the self-tending
>>> > jib.
>>> > But
>>> > what you suggest might be a solution, at least for long tacks.
>>> > Dave
>>> >
>>> > Ben Cittadino wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I had two days in a row on Sandy Hook Bay in NJ this weekend, and
>>> > > I
>>> > want
>>> > > to report that I had a pleasing experience by "finally" re-routing
>> the
>>> > > Jib (175 Genny) sheets inside the outer shrouds to try for better
>>> > upwind
>>> > > sailing. I have to say that I didn't expect much difference, but I
>> was
>>> > > delighted to get inside 45 degrees at last. I obviously didn't let
>>> the
>>> > > Genny out to the full 175, but at 100 we flew along and I felt
>>> > > like
>> I
>>> > > could make real headway upwind. I had delayed trying the new route
>> for
>>> > > the sheets because I thought the sail would get all hung up in
>>> the
>>> > > shrouds, but it's become no big deal. Try it, you'll like it.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > BenCittadino
>>> > >
>>> > > S/V Susan Kay ('93 recycled '08)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > __________________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > View this message in context:
>>> > http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30044777.html
>>> > Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________________
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>>> >
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>> archives
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>>> >
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>> archives
>>> go
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>>> >
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>> go
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>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Sailing-Upwind-tp29517214p30134738.html
> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
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