[Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
Ejor2
ejor2 at aol.com
Fri Aug 24 14:42:16 EDT 2012
Rummy,
I agree 100 percent!! Having sailed/raced many dinghies, primarily lasers, you are not sailing if you don't lay the boat over! The only excuse I could see for these on a dinghy is if you are learning to launch/retrieve on a beach. The force of the breaking waves would probably be too much for it to help anyway.
I am not discounting the possible use as we are discussing, but they are made for dinghies and that's pathetic!
Eric J
Another on the extreme Rhodes sailing team!
On Aug 24, 2012, at 12:49 PM, R22RumRunner at aol.com wrote:
> Having previously owned and sailed a Hobie 16 for many years, I can tell
> you with some certainty that no skipper would want one of those floats on the
> top of his mast. It screams......ASSHOLE ALERT. Look at me. I can't sail
> so I have a safety float on the top of my mast. If you really need a life
> jacket for your mast, it's time to sell your boat and purchase a recliner and
> watch sailing on your TV. Sailing is not for the feeble minded or weak of
> heart. It is dangerous, but we accept those challenges every single time we
> go out.
>
> Rummy
>
>
> In a message dated 8/24/2012 8:27:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> spreadgoodnews at gmail.com writes:
>
>
> I would think by the time it deployed it would already be stuck in the
> mud, but maybe. The hobie mast head is designed to minimize windage. Plus i
> have always thought they were cool!
> I have NEVER seen a masthead float on a cruiser.
> Others might think you to be an extreme racer! Lol!
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 1:53 AM, "Chris Geankoplis" <napoli68 at charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if there is an auto inflate device out there that would inflate
>> when the mast is submerged a couple of feet. It would mean less windage
>> than the big ball on an old Hobie mast.
>>
>> Chris G
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of David Bradley
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:21 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Cc: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
>>
>> I'd think the combination of centerboard down and water shallow enough to
>> put mast/spreader in the mud would introduce a different and potentially
>> bigger problem.
>>
>> A float on the mast head would be an interesting option and might have
> freed
>> mine. Does anyone know, is that a standard item? When I took my mast
> down
>> yesterday the mast head was still full of dried mud. I'm surprised my
>> spreader was not bent.
>>
>> It does seem that the flared hull, freeboard and cabin profile combine to
>> create a tendency to roll in a lateral wind. The extreme weather
> patterns
>> this year have created more cyclonic winds on the East Coast than I ever
>> recall experiencing. However, there were a number of other boats that
> went
>> over in the storm that hit us. One estimate was that 30 boats went over,
>> most self-righting. Because our boat can be moored in shallower water,
>> usually a benefit, it worked against us this time with the storm hitting
> at
>> low tide.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Goodness <spreadgoodnews at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a very interesting set of observations! It seems the Rhodes
> has a
>> weakness being lightly ballasted and an unusual wind scoop (but otherwise
>> beneficial) hull flare. Sudden gust heeling the vessel 90+ degrees
> buried
>> mast In shallow water. This is a big problem.
>>> Preventative measures:
>>> Leave centerboard down,
>>> Increase ballast,
>>> Fly an "anchor rider" sail,
>>> Add a hobie masthead float.
>>>
>>> Perhaps even a combination. Any other ideas for prevention on a
> mooring?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Richard MacArthur
>> <Richard at MacArthurLawFirm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's going on? I thought my Rhodes 22 was self righting. Self
> righting
>> means that in even the strongest wind it will blow over 90 degrees but
> not
>> roll. It's supposed to stay at 90 degrees until the wind lets up and then
>> right itself. A couple of weeks ago I was caught in a front moving in
> and it
>> blew about 35 knots. I let all sail free and with that I was heeling at
>> about 45 degrees. It didn't go down all the way and as soon as I got the
>> sail in, no problem. It seems that when the flare of the hull digs in the
>> boat stiffens up. What happens to make it roll? The only thing I can
> think
>> of is if the vessel is held by the wind with the mast in the water so
> that
>> water can somehow enter the cabin then it loses its stability and has
> only
>> the flotation to keep it from sinking and this would allow it to turn
>> turtle. I know some catamarans use a flotation device at the top of the
> mast
>> to stop the mast going to the bottom but the weight in the keel is
> supposed
>> to do that in a sel!
>> f!
>>> r!
>>>> ighting vessel, unless the interior fills with water. Am I right on
> this?
>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>> rhodes22-list-request at rhodes22.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:01 PM
>>>> To: rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
>>>> Subject: Rhodes22-list Digest, Vol 2960, Issue 1
>>>>
>>>> Send Rhodes22-list mailing list submissions to
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Advise me (Joe Camp)
>>>> 2. Re: Advise me (Joe Camp)
>>>> 3. Re: It's national rum month. (Charles Nieman)
>>>> 4. Re: Advise me (Lowe, Rob)
>>>> 5. Re: Advise me (Stephen Staum)
>>>> 6. Re: Advise me (David Bradley)
>>>> 7. Re: It's national rum month. (Shawn Boles)
>>>> 8. Major Jones (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>> 9. Re: Advise me (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>> 10. Re: Advise me (Chris Geankoplis)
>>>> 11. Anchor light housing replacement (Patrick Fletcher)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <1345651363.78003.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> Mary Lou:
>>>>
>>>> ? ? ?I think you really have the solution here in considering the
> flared
>> hull as a potential (or the most likely)
>>>> reason for these roll-overs... or mine, anyway.
>>>>
>>>> ? ? ?I have noted how tender the boat is when motoring with the tiller
>> locked. ?The boat cannot maintain a straight course if I am moving about
> the
>> cabin. ?Of course, I am 230 pounds, and that's more ballast to adjust the
>> course, but I have learned to steer the boat by changing my position
> (even
>> slightly) in the cockpit. ?My good sailing friend has a McGregor 25 and
> he
>> has more "wetted surface" ?(to borrow a term from Stan). ?He can lock his
>> tiller and wander fore and aft and beam to beam yet still maintain his
> basic
>> course. He is more stable and takes more wind to heel the boat. ?Our keel
>> weights are about the same. ?In the event that flipped my boat, his
> moored
>> just a hundred feet away, didn't have a cushion out of place. True, this
>> could be due in part to the nature of the weather event itself, but still
>> telling as to the side to side stability issue. ?BNy the way, the
> integrity
>> of my mast has been compromised by being buried in the bottom
>>>> mud. Looks like a new mast is in the picture. ?Ah well, you've got to
>> have stories to call yourself a sailor. ?Aye, mates??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ? ??
>>>> Joe Camp
>>>> s/v John Dawson
>>>> Bohemia River, MD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Mary Lou Troy <mtroy at atlanticbb.net>
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>
>>>>> I think any small relatively unballasted boat would be more at risk
>>>>> on a mooring. Our boats also have a fair amount of windage with the
>>>>> IMF and the flared hull. In a strong wind the poptops are probably
>>>>> also a liability unless well secured. I've never felt unsafe at
>>>>> anchor and we've been anchored in some pretty high winds but they
>>>>> were of short duration and our anchorages are typically more
>>>>> protected than most mooring fields.
>>>>>
>>>>> Somewhere I saw it noted that with the warming climate, the world is
>>>>> a windier place. That certainly seems true here on the Chesapeake
>>>>> (though not today).
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary Lou
>>>>> 1991 R22 Fretless
>>>>> Rock Hall, MD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At 06:13 PM 8/21/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>> Lack of a deep heavy keel is definitely a contributing factor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Luck of the draw."? Yeah, odd that so many R-22s flipp like
>>>>>> this.? It must be the global warming... er ah, "climate change"
>>>>>> R-22 effect.? Was this in Al Gore's movie?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> From: Stephen Staum <snstaum at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 4:27 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mine also turtled on its mooring w local cyclones reported. 1
>>>>>> power boat was wrecked on the rocks - no other boats in the mooring
>>>>>> field were damaged. I think it is just the luck of the draw.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 3:31 PM, Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was not driven ashore.? She flipped right at the
>>>>>> mooring.? All other moored boats very near got nothing. I am
>>>>>> looking for a slip for next season.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> From: Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In my case it took a tornado going thru the "pot" on Poplar
>>>>>> Island to do the
>>>>>>>>>> deed.? If you sail in shoal waters it will happen to any boat
>>>>>> given enough
>>>>>>>>>> sudden wind.? In the last 35 years Joe is the only one I can
>>>>>> recall other
>>>>>>>>>> than mine, and he was driven ashore, right?
>>>>>>>>>> Chris G
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of PBR
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:15 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to wish ill upon anyone else but...with all this
> talk
>>>>>>>>>> about Rhodes 22's with Masts stuck in the mud, are our boats
> more
>>>>>>>>>> inclined to suffer this fate or did these recent storms cause a
> lot
>> of
>>>>>>>>>> havoc for other boats the same size?
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5214 - Release Date:
>> 08/21/12
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: Joe Camp <jjcampjr at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>> <1345651740.5488.YahooMailNeo at web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> Chris:
>>>>
>>>> ? ? ?Yeah, thank the maker for insurance. ?I learned yesterday that my
>> mast has suffered some dimples up where the spreaders attach. ?I sent
> pics
>> to Stan, and he confirmed that these will make the mast weaker, maybe
> even
>> unsafe. ?So, I suppose I am on the hard for the rest of the season. ?The
>> marina crew has the cabin cleaned out pretty well, so the main issue is
> the
>> mast. ?As I said to Mary Lou: "you've got to have stories to call
> yourself a
>> sailor." ?ttfn.
>>>>
>>>> Joe?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Chris Geankoplis <napoli68 at charter.net>
>>>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List' <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>
>>>>> Gee Joe,
>>>>> ??? Sounds like Whack a Mole and you lost.? I'm glad you have
> insurance,
>>>>> let us know how things came out.? Sounds like Peter was treated well
> by
>> his
>>>>> insurance.
>>>>> Chris G
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Joe Camp
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:31 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Advise me
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris:
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not driven ashore. ?She flipped right at the mooring. ?All
> other
>>>>> moored boats very near got nothing. I am looking for a slip for next
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