[Rhodes22-list] New Joint of Deck and Hull from originator

Tue Feb 10 08:59:10 EST 2015

Sorry, that was the ABYC standards that I checked - not ABYA. See:
https://www.abycinc.org/standards/toc.cfm 
I can find no standard that deals with the hull-deck joint. Section H-27 is
described as follows:

"H-27 - Seacocks, Thru-Hull Fittings, and Drain Plugs
This standard is a guide for the selection of materials, design,
construction, and installation of seacocks, thru-hull connections, drain
plugs, and other fittings that penetrate the hull at or below the
maximum-heeled waterline."

They only publish the standards table of contents on line and each separate
standard has to be purchased so I can't be certain that the matter isn't
dealt with in a standard but not mentioned in the table of contents, but
that would seem unlikely to me.

The hull-deck join is already the most rigid part of the boat when sealant,
fasteners and rub rail are used - not to mention the doubling up of the
laminations with the overlap of hull and deck. It seems to me that any
transfer of stress is already occurring.

Graham 

-----Original Message-----
From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
[mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 22 Email
List
Sent: February-09-15 2:59 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Joint of Deck and Hull from originator

I think it is The American Boat & Yacht Council, ABYC,  not the AYBA .

---- The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote: 
> Graham,
> 
> Take a look at AYBA book H-27 2014.
> 
> On Casey, I was just referring to what you said about what he wrote.  
> That is, he discussed sealants in his book but later in his article 
> realized it is really about adhesives.
> 
> Realize that making the joint rigid to prevent leaks transfers the 
> stress of flexing to areas of the deck and hull that are not designed 
> to absorb that much stress.  In other words, you wind up with a boat 
> that keeps cracking in the wrong places forevermore.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 9:05 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List < 
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> 
> > Rick:
> > Actually I did check the AYBA standards after you mentioned them 
> > before but could not find any reference to the matter of the 
> > hull-deck joint. Do you know if they address this directly?
> > I don't know what to make of the comment about Casey not knowing the 
> > difference between a sealant and an adhesive. In the book I have he 
> > has a whole section on the topic.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes 
> > 22 Email List
> > Sent: February-08-15 4:28 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] New Joint of Deck and Hull from 
> > originator
> >
> > Hi Graham,
> >
> > Don Casey is a good writer for recreational sailing publications.  
> > However, I have never seen him write for the boat building industry, 
> > like Profession Boat Builder magazine.  Yet it is a good thing that 
> > since writing the book you read, he now seems to know the difference 
> > between a sealant and an adhesive.
> >
> > If you want the advice of many who spend all their days doing it, 
> > check the ISO or AYBA standards.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 7:48 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List < 
> > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Chuy:
> > >
> > > The postings opposed to the idea of fixing the hull-deck join with 
> > > fibreglass lay-up were making me increasingly doubt the approach I 
> > > suggested. However, your reference to Don Casey's article in Sail 
> > > magazine prompted me to check the subject of hull-deck repairs in 
> > > Casey's  book Sailboat Hull and Deck Repairs that I had read about 
> > > 4 years ago and had forgotten about. I knew that I had not just 
> > > dreamt up the idea of joining the hull and deck with fibreglass 
> > > layup but I could not remember where the idea originated. Casey 
> > > gives detailed instructions for sealing with 5200 and re-fastening 
> > > where access to the joint is not feasible. That said, he states the
following:
> > >
> > > "FIBERGLASSING
> > > THE BEST SOLUTION FOR A LEAKING HULL-to-deck joint is to join the 
> > > two parts permanently with fibreglass lay-up. This can be done 
> > > either inside or outside, depending on access and the design of the
joint."
> > > (Emphasis is in the original text.)
> > >
> > > In discussing types of joints, Casey says: "The best joints are 
> > > fibreglasses together into a single strong and leak-free unit, but 
> > > few are built this way. Most are joined mechanically with rivets, 
> > > screws, or bolts and depend on sealant to keep water out."
> > >
> > > In my case, getting access to the joint involved removing the 
> > > covering pads (a few screws), cutting back the lip of the liner, 
> > > and removing the wooden strip below the joint -all tasks that are 
> > > much easier than removing and replacing the rub rail and all of 
> > > the hull-deck fasteners. I removed my rub rail because I also had 
> > > major deck core replacement to do but had that not been the case I 
> > > would have stayed with
> > the inside glassing alone.
> > >
> > > At least now I can sleep knowing that I had not lost my mind or 
> > > ruined the boat.
> > >
> > >
> > > Graham
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
> > > [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The 
> > > Rhodes 22 Email List
> > > Sent: February-06-15 1:14 AM
> > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > > Subject: [Rhodes22-list] New Joint of Deck and Hull from 
> > > originator
> > >
> > > Hi ALL ,
> > >    I received my special anniversary issue of Sail Magazine early 
> > > in the week but did not have time to read it., Volume 46 Number 2 
> > > February
> > 2015.
> > > Tonight I open it to the table of contents and guess what one of the
> > > articles was about?   Page 60, "Sealed up Tight When is comes to
securing
> > > the hull to deck, which method is best?" by Don Casey.
> > >
> > > The author states "Boat builders are increasingly relying on 
> > > high-strength methacrylate adhesives to fuse the hull to the deck 
> > > into a single, leak proof component, in some cases omitting 
> > > mechanical
> > fasteners all together".
> > > Further he states that this process is expansive so some builders 
> > > use flexible adhesives to bond the deck and hull, like 5200.  He 
> > > goes on and states that repairs on the joint are not treated as 
> > > two halves, since there is no reason to.  In most cases the deck 
> > > to hull repair is done without a joint in the damaged area.
> > >
> > > The article is very well written and easy to follow.  He explains 
> > > the different hull to deck joints used.  Their strengths and 
> > > weaknesses and the reason to for their use.
> > >
> > > After reading the article, I think that I most of my ideas with a 
> > > few minor adjustments.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all your input.
> > >
> > > Chuy
> > > AfterMath  1987
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