[Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole - and Stan's info

The Rhodes 22 Email List rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
Tue Jan 20 19:43:57 EST 2015 

Floor is bleached clean and white. I have to remove the horizontal "stringer" /rib. It looked good but while i was in there i pushed my pencil right through it.  I have the 1/2" pt plywood for it too.  
My long stringers are cut, fit perfectly and look good.  
One question i have is when i remove support from the compression post and main bulkhead, will it fall down or is it attached?  I did notice a little key motise and tenon in the bottom of the post to stabilize it.  Thats interesting but i will have to cut it with a coping saw.  I will make a little socket for it after replacing the floor.
Thoughts?

> On Jan 17, 2015, at 4:40 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>   Graham, et al,
>   The stringer construction I described was in a 1974 hull.
>   Todd T.
>   --
>   Sent from my Android phone with [1]mail.com Mail. Please excuse my
>   brevity.
> 
>   The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> 
>     Thanks Rick.
>     I didn't think this would be such a difficult question but given
>     that a
>     number of us are in the process of rebuilding the floor structure
>     and others
>     have had to do so in the past, it would be great to get a
>     definitive answer
>     about how the boats of different vintage were built, or should be
>     built.
>     I think, however, I have found my answer from a message that Stan
>     posted on
>     June 5, 2013 with the subject "Educational Rebuttal" in which he
>     very
>     helpfully detailed much of the evolution of the R22 over the years.
>     Here is
>     the section of that message dealing with hull stiffness and floor
>     stringers:
>     "In those days of simplified pricing, it was by the pound - glass
>     and resin
>     used. The lighter the boat the more competitive, price wise. The
>     Ventures
>     came along and made this building, an art form. In water it did not
>     seem to
>     matter - on land the art form had its weak points, particularly on
>     trailers.
>     In my fifties standing in the lazaret, feeling the flexing hull
>     bottom
>     underfoot, was unnerving. Molding the Rhodes keel as an integrated
>     part of
>     the hull itself, made the Rhodes mid-ship bottom, naturally stiff,
>     whereas
>     competitive boats bolted on their keels. Few boats had flotation.
>     Those
>     that did accomplished it with chunks of bought foam planks, as we
>     ourselves
>     did - in our early days; until it dawned on us to marry the two by
>     molding
>     the foam to fit the hull, then glass it in to stiffen the cockpit
>     and bow
>     sections of the boat bottom. It also dawned on us that a modest
>     redesign of
>     the floor unit stringers and their glassing in, added more bottom
>     stiffness.
>     By the time we moved the making of the hulls to our own shop, we
>     had matured
>     enough to have given up on the price wars. We started to lay up the
>     port
>     side hull glass so it continued on across the bottom, and the
>     starboard side
>     glass lay up so it too continued on across the bottom. With the
>     hull sides
>     extraordinarily stiff from the Rhodes unusual compound curved
>     flared hull
>     shape, now its bottom was extraordinarily stiff from being twice
>     the
>     thickness of the sides. The hulls we build today in our own
>     facility are so
>     extraordinarily stiff that we lift the boats by their bow eye and
>     transom
>     eyes and boat shape shows no deflection. This amazing difference
>     from our
>     early boats /is/ probably overkill because I do not know of any
>     other
>     builder who moves their boats around supported at only its two
>     extremes."
>     So it seems that hull stiffness is a good thing and that older
>     boats might
>     benefit from glassed-in stringers more than the newer ones.
>     I wish Stan would write the book he keeps musing about. He is a
>     great writer
>     and has a story to tell that few could equal.
>     Graham
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>     [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The Rhodes
>     22 Email
>     List
>     Sent: January-16-15 2:19 PM
>     To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>     Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>     Graham,
>     Glassing stringers to the hull is common in the industry. The resin
>     used to
>     fill the glass mat is the same resin used to build the outer hull,
>     thus
>     matching elasticity. Often the purpose of the wood is just to
>     establish
>     form while glassing. I helped a friend cut into a stringer of his
>     25 year
>     old Jeneau to box around space needed for a new A/C compressor. The
>     wood
>     had turned to cardboard, but the stringer was fine.
>     In Todd's case, I expect his stringers are attached not with epoxy,
>     but with
>     an adhesive for that purpose, like 3M 5200.
>     Rick
>     On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 12:40 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
>     rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>> Rick:
>> 
>> Are not the stringers glassed to the hull already? Certainly mine
>     were
>> so I have assumed that was the original construction. If not, I
>     would
>> like to know how they were installed.
>> 
>> You are right about sealing all holes with epoxy.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
>     Rhodes 22
>> Email List
>> Sent: January-15-15 8:10 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>> 
>> Graham,
>> 
>> I don't think any quality boat builder has ever bonded a
>     fiberglass
>> hull to stringers with epoxy. Stringers are rigid, fiberglass
>     hulls are
>     flexible.
>> Since epoxy cannot absorb flex, the hull would be prone to crack
>     along
>> the edges of the stringers bonded with epoxy.
>> 
>> Another caveat on epoxy is using it to coat wood. Anything that
>     keeps
>> water out, keeps water in. If you coat stringers with epoxy, you
>     will
>> need to follow the same sealing protocol when drilling holes into
>> epoxied stringers as you do with the wood cored deck. It would be
>> more convenient to coat your new stringers with a bilge
>     primer/sealer.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 1:39 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Bob:
>>> I think any of your alternatives might work but when I install
>     mine
>>> next summer I intend to use epoxy with fibreglass tape for
>     these
>     reasons:
>>> 1, I have done a lot of work with epoxy and am comfortable
>     using it
>>> and I have it along with the fillers on hand, 2, wood
>     adequately
>>> encapsulated in epoxy (3+ coats) should be impervious to rot
>>> permitting the use of less expensive wood, 3, bonded to the
>     hull the
>>> stringers would add very significantly to the rigidity of the
>     hull,
>>> and 4, the stringers will not flex and therefore will not come
>     loose.
>>> 
>>> I don't know how important point three is but given that the
>>> original stringers were boned to the hull with cloth and
>     polyester
>>> resin, I would feel safer doing the same. Polyester is the
>     other
>>> choice. It is much cheaper than epoxy but not a strong and not
>>> impervious to water vapour.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
>     Rhodes
>>> 22 Email List
>>> Sent: January-15-15 1:05 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>>> 
>>> Ok let me stir the pot again. Should i bed my new stringers in
>     5200
>>> or epoxy them in or fiberglass tape and resin??
>>> Thoughts anyone?
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 12:07 PM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 5200 is also permanent! Don't use it if you think you might
>     ever
>>>> want or need to remove it.
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of The
>>>> Rhodes
>>>> 22 Email List
>>>> Sent: January-15-15 10:04 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>>>> 
>>>> Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> 3M 5200 is an adhesive, not a sealant. A silicone sealant
>     will
>>>> give you better results.
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:55 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Graham: Yes that is what i meant. These boats have a
>     notoriously
>>>>> leaky hull to deck joint. Stan explained it was due to the
>>>>> workers ineptitude he had applying the joint caulk during
>     those
>     years.
>>>>> They probably caulked the seam after the hull and deck were
>>>>> fastened instead of caulking both sides then putting the
>     sandwich
>>>>> together and just
>>>> wiping away the excess.
>>>>> I am going to remove the rail, clean out as much old caulk
>     as i
>>>>> can and then seal it with 3m 5200 and re-attach the rub
>     rail. It
>>>>> shouldnt leak any more. I did this once before on an 80's
>     era
>>>>> boat and it worked
>>>> great.
>>>>> Shortcuts were happening in every industry back then.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 9:43 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List <
>>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I doubt that it is the rub rail that is leaking. If it is
>>>>>> leaking through the screw holes you might get away with
>     just
>>>>>> removing the screws one at a time and reinserting with
>     sealant.
>>>>>> It is more likely that the leak is
>>>>> behind
>>>>>> the rub rail where the deck and hull join.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org
>>>>>> [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of
>     The
>>>>>> Rhodes
>>>>>> 22
>>>>> Email
>>>>>> List
>>>>>> Sent: January-15-15 6:56 AM
>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Soul of the sole
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks Rummy.
>>>>>> Yes i already have the bleach and scrub brush out there. I
>     am
>>>>>> going to
>>>>> do
>>>>>> the rub rail first though. Very leaky boat!
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:06 AM, The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>>>> <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm sure you are aware of this,but the photo shows a great
>     deal
>>>>>>> of
>>>> mold.
>>>>>>> You might want to clean the area really good with a soapy
>>>>>>> bleach solution prior to installing the new stringers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rummy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In a message dated 1/14/2015 9:29:05 P.M. Eastern Standard
>>>>>>> Time, rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org writes:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [2]
>     http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/201
>>>>>>> 50
>>>>>>> 11
>>>>>>> 4/6
>>>>>>> 474727
>>>>>>> 0/attachment.JPG
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>>> [3] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
>     and
>>>>>>> archives go to[4] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>>> [5] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
>     and
>>>>>> archives
>>>>> go to
>>>>>> [6] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> [7] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
>     and
>>>>>> archives
>>>>> go to[8] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>>> [9] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list
>     and
>>>>> archives go to[10] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> [11] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>> 
>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives go to[12] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>>> [13] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>> 
>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>>> archives go to[14] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> [15] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> 
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to[16] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> [17] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> 
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to[18] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> [19] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>> 
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>     archives
>> go to[20] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>> [21] http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>> 
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>     archives
>> go to[22] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>     __________________________________________________
>     To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>     [23]http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>     For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>     archives go to
>     [24]http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>     __________________________________________________
>     __________________________________________________
>     To subscribe/unsubscribe go to[25]
>     http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>     For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>     archives go to[26] http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>     __________________________________________________
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://mail.com/
>   2. http://www.rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/201
>   3. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>   4. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>   5. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>   6. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>   7. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>   8. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>   9. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  10. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  11. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  12. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  13. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  14. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  15. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  16. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  17. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  18. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  19. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  20. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  21. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  22. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  23. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  24. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>  25. http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>  26. http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________
> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
> 
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> __________________________________________________

More information about the Rhodes22-list mailing list