[Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket

Graham Stewart gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
Mon Aug 20 12:33:45 EDT 2018 

Patrick:

What year is your boat?

No one else has mentioned this so I might be wrong, but I suspect that the V block was added by a previous owner. I don't have one in my boat. The only purpose I can see for it would be to stop the centerboard from being pushed up into the cap. On my boat, and others according to other threads, there a pieces of garden hose (about 6") that are placed above the pivot pin in the slots for the pin in the side of the housing. Should the board be pushed up the pieces of hose compress. I don't see the slot on your boat and wonder if this V block was put in the slot or perhaps the picture is facing towards the aft of the boat and the slots were not included.

If you are repairing your rudder or centerboard you might check for voids - especially if there are any stress cracks or bulging in the gel coat. You can find the voids fairly easily by tapping on the outside with a wooden screwdriver handle. They can be filled fairly easily by drilling holes into the cavity and injecting epoxy or polyester resin. I was very surprised how much resin it took to fill the known cavities in both my centerboard and rudder. I also used three gallons of resin filling cavities in the keel but I had damage that may have resulted in material being lost.

Your picture appears to show fewer bolt holes in the trunk than I have. The refit kit that Stan supplies includes 50 machine screws so I assume that there should ideally be holes for them all. I have 54 because I added a few trying to stop the leak. Since you are already doing this work, you might consider adding a few. 

The picture was also useful for me as like mine, you have a single row of holes so perhaps that is the design standard. If anyone has a picture of their housing on a more recent boat that might be very helpful.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Cheung
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 8:49 AM
To: Curtis Ruck; The Rhodes 22 Email List
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket

Graham, here’s the two pictures of the v block.  Hope pictures will go through.

I placed the order for neoprene.
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> On Aug 19, 2018, at 10:57 AM, Curtis Ruck via Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> 
> It is definitely closed cell, to my knowledge all neoprene is.   I looked
> at the different thicknesses and soft/firm and ordered two actually, a 1/4"
> that was more firm, and the 3/16.  When I got them, decided on the 3/16,
> because once compressed, its basically solid rubber, and the surface of my
> trunk was less than perfectly smooth, so i chose it based on
> compress-ability.
> 
> I don't believe it leaks, but its never been in the water long enough to
> really tell.  I'd wager it does, but without having a slip to keep it in, i
> have no real way to know.
> --
> Curtis
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 8:41 AM Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> The neoprene that Curtis found looks great but is referred to a "sponge"
>> neoprene. I expect that means it is softer than the usual stuff and might
>> make a better seal assuming that it is closed cell. Does anyone have a more
>> informed opinion than mine on this difference?
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
>> Of Curtis Ruck via Rhodes22-list
>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 7:26 PM
>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket
>> 
>> I used this from Amazon:
>> 
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HDILE4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>> on my 1979.  Seems to work, but mine is only in the water ~2-3 hours a
>> time, and there is always water in the bilge when I start sailing (I
>> believe due to the cockpit drains getting clogged, and the water making up
>> and in the cockpit storage, which drains through to the bilge.
>> --
>> Curtis
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:40 PM Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Just so that there is no confusion, I did make a neoprene gasket and it
>> is
>>> installed. It is 3/16 thick but has a fine ribbed pattern that I think
>> did
>>> not compress enough to make a perfect seal. It might also be too hard.
>> So I
>>> am only using the butyl to give the neoprene a smoother surface - not
>>> substituting the neoprene with the butyl. Nevertheless, I think I will
>>> replace the gasket when I can find a Canadian source.
>>> 
>>> Another issue that might explain my difficulty getting a good seal is
>> that
>>> it looks to me like the flange on the cap might have been trimmed at some
>>> point. The lip is only about 1 1/4 inch wide and allows for only a single
>>> row of bolts. The base is quite a bit wider and appears to have had a
>>> second row of bolts at some point. It makes sense that both parts would
>> be
>>> the same width.
>>> 
>>> I really don't want to take this apart again to replace the gasket and
>>> rebuild the cap.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Gary Novotny
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:40 PM
>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket
>>> 
>>> Yep, totally agree that things bedded with urethane sealants are a bitch
>>> to remove. Only use this stuff as a last resort if you can’t find proper
>>> gasket material. Also I'd be sure the pendant and  all blocks are in
>>> excellent condition. If not, definitely replace. The problem I see with
>>> Butyl for this application is that it has no adhesive properties , so
>>> you are counting on the cap to trunk compression to keep it sealed and
>>> it’s not resilient like a neoprene gasket. If the trunk is subject to
>>> any significant flexing at all then the compression seal could start to
>>> develop leaks. If I did use Butyl tape, I'd keep a close eye on it. One
>>> good thing is that Butyl tape would be VERY easy to replace.
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 8/18/2018 12:55 PM, Graham Stewart wrote:
>>>> Like Gary I used butyl extensively as a bedding material for my
>> hardware
>>> and it is a dream to use compared to other sealants. The only place below
>>> the waterline where I used it was the centerboard cap and only then
>> because
>>> I was getting desperate to find a solution. Gary's cautionary note is
>> good
>>> reason to keep looking for the proper neoprene - something I will do
>>> if/when the butyl fails or I have to remove the cap for any other reason.
>>>> 
>>>> 4200 sealant is easier to remove than 5200, which is almost impossible
>>> without destroying the parts,  but would still be extremely difficult -
>>> especially for such a large area. When I bought my boat a previous owner
>>> had used one of those high-adhesive sealants  and I spent literally days
>>> getting the cap off using a torch to heat a large knife that I slowly
>> moved
>>> along the join. Even then I still broke the cap into two pieces and had
>> to
>>> make extensive repairs to the cap and the base.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't know if there is anything like butyl that has low adhesive
>>> characteristics and is still rated for below the waterline use.
>>>> 
>>>> For the time being the butyl is working but I will let the list know if
>>> it begins to fail - assuming the boat doesn't sink and take me with it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Graham Stewart
>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
>>>> Kingston Ontario
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Gary Novotny
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:38 AM
>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket
>>>> 
>>>> Guys,
>>>> 
>>>> I love Butyl tape, it's really great as a bedding compound. I completed
>>>> the first round of restoration on a boat (not my Rhodes) three months
>>>> ago and I used this stuff extensively for all the deck fittings and a
>>>> hatch. Butyl tape like all sealants needs a clean surface so use Remov
>>>> or DeBond first if the surface has prior sealant contamination. I can't
>>>> say enough good things about the ease of Butyl tape installation and
>>>> cleanup. All the leaking fittings are fixed now. It is too early for me
>>>> to report on longevity, but others have had very good results and when
>>>> you do need to re-bed its easy.
>>>> 
>>>> I wouldn't be comfortable using this below the waterline however. If
>> you
>>>> can't get neoprene sheet, you might be better off resorting to a
>>>> traditional moderately adhesive sealant like 3M 4200. (Do NOT use 5200)
>>>> 
>>>> Just my 2cents.
>>>> 
>>>> Gary
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/17/2018 2:56 PM, Graham Stewart wrote:
>>>>> Patrick:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Glad to hear that there is another Rhodie in Canada. I thought Phil
>>> Gautier and I were the only ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I replaced my gasket last year but was unable to find the proper
>>> neoprene. I finally got some neoprene from a neighbor but it wasn't
>> smooth
>>> surfaced so it leaked no matter how many bolts I added. I finally stopped
>>> the leaks by using butyl tape - not an ideal solution, but it worked
>> well.
>>> Butyl is an excellent sealant but has very low adhesive qualities so it
>>> should be easy to remove in the future should that be necessary. The tape
>>> is about 3/4" wide but I only used about half of that on both sides of
>> the
>>> gasket as I didn't want to have it squeeze into the centerboard slot. I
>>> would not use the butyl that comes in a tube. In fact only use the butyl
>> if
>>> you can't get the proper neoprene.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham Stewart
>>>>> Agile 1976 Rhodes 22
>>>>> Kingston Ontario.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Patrick Cheung
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:11 PM
>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Rubber gasket
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gary,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I found the perfect one from Amazon but they won’t ship to Canada.
>>> Gonna keep looking.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thx, Patrick
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2018, at 1:32 PM, Gary Novotny <gjnovotny at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Patrick,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When I did my centerboard trunk maintenance four years ago I used
>>> neoprene sheet I bought off of Amazon. It seems to have worked well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Moon shadow 1978 R22
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/17/2018 11:50 AM, Patrick Cheung wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Rhodies,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is time to repair the center board. I reached out to Stan for a
>>> piece of
>>>>>>> the rubber but he is super busy right now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I seems to recall some Rhodies may have extra rubber left over from
>>> their
>>>>>>> repair. I am hoping I can buy a stripe off you, if you are willing
>> to
>>> sell.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>>> Duck, '84
>>>>>>> Lake Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>>> archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Gary Novotny
>>>>>> 7309 S Indian River Drive
>>>>>> Fort Pierce Florida 34982
>>>>>> 772-4660956 home
>>>>>> 772-9715753 cell
>>>>>> gjnovotny at comcast.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and
>> archives
>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives
>>> go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Gary Novotny
>>> 7309 S Indian River Drive
>>> Fort Pierce Florida 34982
>>> 772-4660956 home
>>> 772-9715753 cell
>>> gjnovotny at comcast.net
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> 
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/mailman/listinfo/rhodes22-list
>>> 
>>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
>>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> To subscribe/unsubscribe go to
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>> 
>> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go
>> to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>> __________________________________________________
>> 
>> 
> __________________________________________________
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> 
> For the list Charter and help with using the mailing list and archives go to http://www.rhodes22.org/list
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