[Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection

Fri Sep 11 09:06:32 EDT 2020

A drill press allows you to keep a consistent angle and speed while
carefully controlling the downward pressure. There's also less of a
tendency for the drill bit to "walk," but I'd still use a punch to create a
set point for the drill bit. I'd also suggest using cutting oil (fluid)
when drilling any metal other than maybe aluminum or lead.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cutting+oil

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:42 AM Jesse Shumaker <
jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the tips.  I may give the step bit a try.
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 9:44 PM Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > I like to use a step bit to gradually drill a larger hole in metal
> without
> > having to change bits.
> >
> > Graham Stewart
> > Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> > Kingston Ontario
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Peter Nyberg
> > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 8:59 PM
> > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> >
> > Starting with smaller holes and gradually expanding to larger holes is
> the
> > approach I usually take.  I don’t know that it actually matters.
> >
> > Using a drill press may help to positions holes more accurately, other
> > than that, I haven’t noticed that it matters much over using a hand
> drill.
> >
> > —Peter
> >
> > > On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Jesse Shumaker <
> > jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can confirm what Peter mentioned since I recently ordered mast
> > organizer
> > > model DH288
> > > <
> >
> https://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=40&cat1Name=Hardware&familyID=19&familyName=Halyard+Organizer+Plates
> > >
> > > in
> > > preparation for fall projects.  I attached a photo of the one that I
> > > received in the mail.  Sorry for the poor lighting in the photo.  It
> > occurs
> > > to me that I'll need to drill holes to fit the existing pattern on the
> > > tabernacle.    It appears I may want to use a drill press and
> > progressively
> > > larger bits for that given the strength of the material described in
> > > Roger's earlier post in this thread.
> > >
> > > Jesse Shumaker
> > > S/V Zephyr
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 10:56 AM Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I avoided having to cut off the tab by mounting the organizer
> backwards,
> > >> with the tab on the forward side.  I don’t use the tab, but it’s not
> in
> > the
> > >> way there.
> > >>
> > >> The halyard organizer, for those who might be interested, came from
> > Dwyer (
> > >> www.dwyermast.com).  I just took a look at their current selection of
> > >> organizers, and none appear to have a tab with a hole for mounting a
> > block
> > >> at the centerline; only port and starboard.
> > >>
> > >> Peter Nyberg
> > >> Coventry, CT
> > >> s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> > >>
> > >>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:40 AM, ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Graham,
> > >>>
> > >>> I actually have a modified version of Peter Nyberg’s mast step
> > >> organizer.  I simply cut off the tab on the aft side so it wouldn’t
> > >> interfere with the pop top slider.  Unfortunately, the 300 series
> > stainless
> > >> alloys have a strong tendency to work harden when they are cold
> > worked.  It
> > >> takes a good metal cutting band saw with plenty of coolant to cut thru
> > the
> > >> work hardened bent tab.  Then, a bench grinder and fine emory cloth
> will
> > >> clean up the cut and round off the sharp edges.  Having the anchor
> > points
> > >> on the port, starboard, and front sides of the mast is very handy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger: Thanks for the thorough response. It all makes sense. I
> wonder
> > >> why I didn't have that ring installed on my boat. A second option I am
> > >> considering is to install a mast step organizer such as the one that
> > Peter
> > >> Nyberg installed on his boat. I don't have a Cunningham on my boat. I
> > would
> > >> be interested in seeing what others have installed if anyone has
> > pictures.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Graham Stewart
> > >>>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> > >>>> Kingston Ontario
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > >> Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 8:15 AM
> > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Graham,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Although, at first glance, the present pop top slider design may
> look
> > >> sort of crude, it’s actually pretty elegant.  Remember, there are 2
> > pieces
> > >> of tackle that have their lower anchor points on the pop top slider,
> the
> > >> boom vang and the Cunningham.  The snap shackle for the Cunningham
> > actually
> > >> attaches to the eye strap and the snap shackle for the boom vang
> > actually
> > >> attaches to the ring.  This way, the force from the Cunningham, which
> is
> > >> vertical directly up the mast, is kept as close as possible to the
> mast.
> > >> The force from the Cunningham on the two machine screws attaching the
> > eye
> > >> strap to the pop top slider is almost entirely shear, which is the
> most
> > >> mechanically efficient way to load a threaded connection.  In
> addition,
> > by
> > >> attaching the Cunningham to the eye strap vs. the ring, the clam cleat
> > on
> > >> the block automatically faces aft, thus facilitating ease of use from
> > the
> > >> cockpit.  Similarly, attaching the snap shackle for the boom vang onto
> > the
> > >> ring vs. the eye strap, automatically positions the clam cleat
> downward
> > and
> > >> moves it aft slightly, both of which help prevent the two pieces of
> > tackle
> > >> from getting fouled up on each other and makes the boom vang easier to
> > use
> > >> from the cockpit.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If the ring were simply welded onto the pop top slider, I think it
> > >> might interfere with the pop top raising and lowering process.  i.e.
> > When
> > >> the pop top is raised, the 1st step is to raise the aft end of the pop
> > top
> > >> up on its support arms until the spring loaded detents lock into
> > position.
> > >> In this position, the front corner of the pop top might interfere
> with a
> > >> fixed welded ring on the pop top slider.  The present design, with its
> > eye
> > >> strap and ring, automatically folds down out of the way.  Even with
> the
> > >> present pop top slider design, it’s not the eye strap and ring that’s
> in
> > >> the way if you attempt to raise the pop top with the boom vang and
> > >> Cunningham in place, it’s the two pieces of tackle and all the
> > associated
> > >> line.  Similarly, it’s not the eye strap and ring that tend to chip up
> > the
> > >> front corner of the pop top, it’s the lower blocks and snap shackles
> on
> > the
> > >> Cunningham and boom vang that do the damage when they start flopping
> > >> around.  A welded fixed ring wouldn’t change that.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Finally, if the ring is welded onto the pop top slider; then, that
> > will
> > >> be a critical weld.  There will be a lot of force on it.  I hope you
> > are,
> > >> or have access to, a certified welder.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Even after all these years, it’s fun to critically exam Stan’s ideas
> > >> and designs that were so multifunctional.  He was way ahead of us all
> in
> > >> anticipating and solving problems.  My boat is in its 44th season and
> > it’s
> > >> been sailed hard.  The pop top slider hasn’t given a bit of trouble.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > >> Windows 10
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:32 PM
> > >>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger:
> > >>>> I am thinking that it might be worth getting the ring welded to the
> > >> plate at about a 30 degree an angle rather than having it flop around
> in
> > >> the strap eye. Do you see a reason why that might not work?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Graham Stewart
> > >>>> gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > >> Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 5:24 PM
> > >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Graham,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The slider is held in its various positions by a hair pin clip that
> > >> inserts thru holes drilled thru the mast track.  I always keep the
> hair
> > pin
> > >> clip in place to hold the slider down no matter whether I have tension
> > on
> > >> the boom vang &/or Cunningham or not.  S/V Dynamic Equilibrium came
> > rigged
> > >> with the boom vang and Cunningham downhaul when I purchased her.  I
> > don’t
> > >> know if a previous owner drilled and tapped the pop top slider for the
> > eye
> > >> strap.  Or, maybe back in 1976, Stan might have offered a “performance
> > >> mainsail package” that included a boom vang and Cunningham.  There is
> > also
> > >> an eye strap drilled and tapped into the underside of the boom for the
> > top
> > >> anchor point on the boom vang.  It all looks pretty professional if
> they
> > >> are homemade and they both serve their mainsail shaping functions
> > >> perfectly.  Both the boom vang and Cunningham must be removed to raise
> > the
> > >> pop top.  With snap shackles, installing and removing them is not a
> big
> > >> deal.  A word of caution, all this hardware on the leading edge of the
> > pop
> > >> top can chip the fiberglass if they get to banging around.  I solved
> > this
> > >> problem by epoxying 10 gage SS sheet metal to the sides and the top of
> > the
> > >> pop top near the pointy end where it attaches to the pop top slider.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Sep 9, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Roger:
> > >>>>> My 76 has the same bracket except that it does not have the ring or
> > eye
> > >>>>> strap. I wonder if that was added by a previous owner. Do you have
> a
> > >> track
> > >>>>> stop to keep the pop top down when the boom vang or Cunningham is
> in
> > >> use? If
> > >>>>> it works well I might copy that.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Graham Stewart
> > >>>>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> > >>>>> Kingston Ontario
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> > >> Behalf Of
> > >>>>> ROGER PIHLAJA
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 1:32 PM
> > >>>>> To: John Carlson; The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hi All,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I've attached a picture of the pop top slider connection on my
> older
> > >> (1976)
> > >>>>> standard (i.e. non IMF) mainsail Rhodes 22.  As you can see, it's a
> > >> simple
> > >>>>> weldment.  The bent sheet metal slides up and down in the mast
> slot.
> > >> The
> > >>>>> bolt attaches to a pair of brackets on the leading edge of the pop
> > >> top.  The
> > >>>>> ring is the lower anchor point for the boom vang and Cunningham
> > >> downhaul
> > >>>>> tackle.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [cid:image003.jpg at 01D686AD.A5678F20]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> > >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > >> Windows
> > >>>>> 10
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list<mailto:
> > rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:36 AM
> > >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop top connection
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The front of mine is quite rough as well. I have a picture, but it
> > >> looks a
> > >>>>> lot like yours (and I use a Mac).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> John.
> > >>>>> 2004/12 Rhodes 22
> > >>>>> Waco, TX
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Mark Whipple <
> mark at whipplefamily.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>>> New question: I'm looking at the piece that connects my pop-top to
> > the
> > >>>>>> mast, and it looks unfinished on the forward end, like it may have
> > >> been
> > >>>>>> broken at some point. I realize there are many small differences
> > >> between
> > >>>>>> our boats but do yours look like this? (Sorry for the blue tape in
> > >> the way
> > >>>>>> - I removed it but then forgot to take another picture.)
> > >>>>>> Mark
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Boston, MA
> > >>>>>> 2000 R22 *Luna Mia*
> > >>>>>> 1987 Nimble 30 *For Sale*
> > >>>>>> 1982 Com-Pac 16 *For Sale*
> > >>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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> > >>>>>> URL:
> > >>>>> <
> > >>
> >
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> > >>
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> > >>>>
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> > >>
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