[Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection

[Jesse Shumaker]

Thanks for the tips.  I may give the step bit a try.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 9:44 PM Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:

> I like to use a step bit to gradually drill a larger hole in metal without
> having to change bits.
>
> Graham Stewart
> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> Kingston Ontario
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On Behalf
> Of Peter Nyberg
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 8:59 PM
> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
>
> Starting with smaller holes and gradually expanding to larger holes is the
> approach I usually take.  I don’t know that it actually matters.
>
> Using a drill press may help to positions holes more accurately, other
> than that, I haven’t noticed that it matters much over using a hand drill.
>
> —Peter
>
> > On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Jesse Shumaker <
> jesse.laten.shumaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I can confirm what Peter mentioned since I recently ordered mast
> organizer
> > model DH288
> > <
> https://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=40&cat1Name=Hardware&familyID=19&familyName=Halyard+Organizer+Plates
> >
> > in
> > preparation for fall projects.  I attached a photo of the one that I
> > received in the mail.  Sorry for the poor lighting in the photo.  It
> occurs
> > to me that I'll need to drill holes to fit the existing pattern on the
> > tabernacle.    It appears I may want to use a drill press and
> progressively
> > larger bits for that given the strength of the material described in
> > Roger's earlier post in this thread.
> >
> > Jesse Shumaker
> > S/V Zephyr
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 10:56 AM Peter Nyberg <peter at sunnybeeches.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I avoided having to cut off the tab by mounting the organizer backwards,
> >> with the tab on the forward side.  I don’t use the tab, but it’s not in
> the
> >> way there.
> >>
> >> The halyard organizer, for those who might be interested, came from
> Dwyer (
> >> www.dwyermast.com).  I just took a look at their current selection of
> >> organizers, and none appear to have a tab with a hole for mounting a
> block
> >> at the centerline; only port and starboard.
> >>
> >> Peter Nyberg
> >> Coventry, CT
> >> s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> >>
> >>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:40 AM, ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Graham,
> >>>
> >>> I actually have a modified version of Peter Nyberg’s mast step
> >> organizer.  I simply cut off the tab on the aft side so it wouldn’t
> >> interfere with the pop top slider.  Unfortunately, the 300 series
> stainless
> >> alloys have a strong tendency to work harden when they are cold
> worked.  It
> >> takes a good metal cutting band saw with plenty of coolant to cut thru
> the
> >> work hardened bent tab.  Then, a bench grinder and fine emory cloth will
> >> clean up the cut and round off the sharp edges.  Having the anchor
> points
> >> on the port, starboard, and front sides of the mast is very handy.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger: Thanks for the thorough response. It all makes sense. I wonder
> >> why I didn't have that ring installed on my boat. A second option I am
> >> considering is to install a mast step organizer such as the one that
> Peter
> >> Nyberg installed on his boat. I don't have a Cunningham on my boat. I
> would
> >> be interested in seeing what others have installed if anyone has
> pictures.
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham Stewart
> >>>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> >>>> Kingston Ontario
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> >> Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 8:15 AM
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham,
> >>>>
> >>>> Although, at first glance, the present pop top slider design may look
> >> sort of crude, it’s actually pretty elegant.  Remember, there are 2
> pieces
> >> of tackle that have their lower anchor points on the pop top slider, the
> >> boom vang and the Cunningham.  The snap shackle for the Cunningham
> actually
> >> attaches to the eye strap and the snap shackle for the boom vang
> actually
> >> attaches to the ring.  This way, the force from the Cunningham, which is
> >> vertical directly up the mast, is kept as close as possible to the mast.
> >> The force from the Cunningham on the two machine screws attaching the
> eye
> >> strap to the pop top slider is almost entirely shear, which is the most
> >> mechanically efficient way to load a threaded connection.  In addition,
> by
> >> attaching the Cunningham to the eye strap vs. the ring, the clam cleat
> on
> >> the block automatically faces aft, thus facilitating ease of use from
> the
> >> cockpit.  Similarly, attaching the snap shackle for the boom vang onto
> the
> >> ring vs. the eye strap, automatically positions the clam cleat downward
> and
> >> moves it aft slightly, both of which help prevent the two pieces of
> tackle
> >> from getting fouled up on each other and makes the boom vang easier to
> use
> >> from the cockpit.
> >>>>
> >>>> If the ring were simply welded onto the pop top slider, I think it
> >> might interfere with the pop top raising and lowering process.  i.e.
> When
> >> the pop top is raised, the 1st step is to raise the aft end of the pop
> top
> >> up on its support arms until the spring loaded detents lock into
> position.
> >> In this position, the front corner of the pop top might interfere with a
> >> fixed welded ring on the pop top slider.  The present design, with its
> eye
> >> strap and ring, automatically folds down out of the way.  Even with the
> >> present pop top slider design, it’s not the eye strap and ring that’s in
> >> the way if you attempt to raise the pop top with the boom vang and
> >> Cunningham in place, it’s the two pieces of tackle and all the
> associated
> >> line.  Similarly, it’s not the eye strap and ring that tend to chip up
> the
> >> front corner of the pop top, it’s the lower blocks and snap shackles on
> the
> >> Cunningham and boom vang that do the damage when they start flopping
> >> around.  A welded fixed ring wouldn’t change that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, if the ring is welded onto the pop top slider; then, that
> will
> >> be a critical weld.  There will be a lot of force on it.  I hope you
> are,
> >> or have access to, a certified welder.
> >>>>
> >>>> Even after all these years, it’s fun to critically exam Stan’s ideas
> >> and designs that were so multifunctional.  He was way ahead of us all in
> >> anticipating and solving problems.  My boat is in its 44th season and
> it’s
> >> been sailed hard.  The pop top slider hasn’t given a bit of trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> >> Windows 10
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Graham Stewart<mailto:gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:32 PM
> >>>> To: 'The Rhodes 22 Email List'<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger:
> >>>> I am thinking that it might be worth getting the ring welded to the
> >> plate at about a 30 degree an angle rather than having it flop around in
> >> the strap eye. Do you see a reason why that might not work?
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham Stewart
> >>>> gstewart8 at cogeco.ca
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> >> Behalf Of ROGER PIHLAJA
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 5:24 PM
> >>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham,
> >>>>
> >>>> The slider is held in its various positions by a hair pin clip that
> >> inserts thru holes drilled thru the mast track.  I always keep the hair
> pin
> >> clip in place to hold the slider down no matter whether I have tension
> on
> >> the boom vang &/or Cunningham or not.  S/V Dynamic Equilibrium came
> rigged
> >> with the boom vang and Cunningham downhaul when I purchased her.  I
> don’t
> >> know if a previous owner drilled and tapped the pop top slider for the
> eye
> >> strap.  Or, maybe back in 1976, Stan might have offered a “performance
> >> mainsail package” that included a boom vang and Cunningham.  There is
> also
> >> an eye strap drilled and tapped into the underside of the boom for the
> top
> >> anchor point on the boom vang.  It all looks pretty professional if they
> >> are homemade and they both serve their mainsail shaping functions
> >> perfectly.  Both the boom vang and Cunningham must be removed to raise
> the
> >> pop top.  With snap shackles, installing and removing them is not a big
> >> deal.  A word of caution, all this hardware on the leading edge of the
> pop
> >> top can chip the fiberglass if they get to banging around.  I solved
> this
> >> problem by epoxying 10 gage SS sheet metal to the sides and the top of
> the
> >> pop top near the pointy end where it attaches to the pop top slider.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart8 at cogeco.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Roger:
> >>>>> My 76 has the same bracket except that it does not have the ring or
> eye
> >>>>> strap. I wonder if that was added by a previous owner. Do you have a
> >> track
> >>>>> stop to keep the pop top down when the boom vang or Cunningham is in
> >> use? If
> >>>>> it works well I might copy that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graham Stewart
> >>>>> Agile, Rodes 22, 1976
> >>>>> Kingston Ontario
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Rhodes22-list [mailto:rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >>>>> ROGER PIHLAJA
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 1:32 PM
> >>>>> To: John Carlson; The Rhodes 22 Email List
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop Top Connection
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've attached a picture of the pop top slider connection on my older
> >> (1976)
> >>>>> standard (i.e. non IMF) mainsail Rhodes 22.  As you can see, it's a
> >> simple
> >>>>> weldment.  The bent sheet metal slides up and down in the mast slot.
> >> The
> >>>>> bolt attaches to a pair of brackets on the leading edge of the pop
> >> top.  The
> >>>>> ring is the lower anchor point for the boom vang and Cunningham
> >> downhaul
> >>>>> tackle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [cid:image003.jpg at 01D686AD.A5678F20]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> >> Windows
> >>>>> 10
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: John Carlson via Rhodes22-list<mailto:
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org
> >>>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 10:36 AM
> >>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<mailto:rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Pop top connection
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The front of mine is quite rough as well. I have a picture, but it
> >> looks a
> >>>>> lot like yours (and I use a Mac).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> John.
> >>>>> 2004/12 Rhodes 22
> >>>>> Waco, TX
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Mark Whipple <mark at whipplefamily.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>> New question: I'm looking at the piece that connects my pop-top to
> the
> >>>>>> mast, and it looks unfinished on the forward end, like it may have
> >> been
> >>>>>> broken at some point. I realize there are many small differences
> >> between
> >>>>>> our boats but do yours look like this? (Sorry for the blue tape in
> >> the way
> >>>>>> - I removed it but then forgot to take another picture.)
> >>>>>> Mark
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Boston, MA
> >>>>>> 2000 R22 *Luna Mia*
> >>>>>> 1987 Nimble 30 *For Sale*
> >>>>>> 1982 Com-Pac 16 *For Sale*
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> >>>>
> >>
> >>
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