[Rhodes22-list] Anchoring

Wed Nov 1 11:31:30 EDT 2023

So Rick,

Assuming your chainplates were constructed like Todd’s boat, when your chainplate pulled out, how did it fail?  Did the thru bolt fail or did the tang fail?

Roger Pihlaja
S/V Dynamic Equilibrium

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 31, 2023, at 7:30 PM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roger, Rick, All,
>
> I can not remember much about the upper shroud chainplates which run up
> through the toe rail; or how the deck to hull joint is constructed for that
> matter, but here are a few pictures I took from my old 1976 model Rhodes
> 22.  The previous owner cut a section of the cabin liner out with a series
> of drilled holes. The chainplate consisted of two tangs, crossed and bolted
> together. I never investigated them any more than making sure the nuts were
> tight. But looking back at the pictures now, I can't figure out where the
> heads of the bolts were, but guess they were behind the rub rail. (?) I
> have never taken the rub rail off any of the three Rhodes 22s I've owned.
>
> Todd T
>
>
>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 6:38 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Tell us more about how one of the upper side stay chainplates failed
>> suddenly and without warning.  I agree it’s hard to inspect the way it’s
>> glassed in.  However, if the FRP substrate failed, I would expect it would
>> get “mushy” first.  Similarly, if the stainless steel chainplate itself
>> failed, I would expect it to gradually get weaker as the pitting and cracks
>> extended.  Either mechanism would cause a situation wherein you would have
>> issues with maintaining the shroud tension.  After every sail, the shroud
>> would be loose.  Since you claim the failure happened suddenly without
>> warning, please tell us what happened.
>>
>> Roger Pihlaja
>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:44 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> What yelling?  You start the engine.  While it’s warming up, you walk to
>> the bow, and snag the anchor rode downstream of the carabiner with a boat
>> hook. You motor slowly forward while pulling in the anchor rode hand over
>> hand over the railing.  Note that you haven’t touched the bow cleat or the
>> carabiner.  When the anchor is aboard, you go and redeploy.  No muss, no
>> fuss.  I am just claiming that my technique makes it less likely the anchor
>> is going to drag.  Often, your suggested options of going someplace else or
>> going to shore are not available.  The Rhodes 22 has the advantage of
>> shallow draft and can often be anchored in a corner of the harbor where the
>> big boats can’t go.  We all have a vision of being alone in a pristine
>> anchorage.  But, that’s often not the reality.  Have you actually done much
>> anchoring out?  What do you propose to do if you’re not willing to anchor
>> in close quarters?  Remember, there are no slips available and it’s too
>> late to go somewhere else.
>>>
>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:19 PM, Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> If you wake up dragging, it is likely you will need to quickly redeploy.
>>>> That's not easily and safely done in the dark with your anchor tackle
>>>> complications.  And any "optimizing" that ignores emergencies just
>> leads to
>>>> a short life--and a lot of yelling.
>>>>
>>>> I am not suggesting an all chain rode.  I am saying you need a 20' chain
>>>> between anchor and rope rode, as you have.  The rope should be no less
>> than
>>>> 7 times longer than the water depth.  If you can't find a spot that has
>>>> enough room, go to shore or to another anchorage.  Good seamanship is
>> not
>>>> squeezing in.
>>>>
>>>> One of the few faults with the R22 is that the chain plates cannot be
>>>> visually inspected.  Some on this list have opened inspection holes in
>> the
>>>> cabin inside walls to make inspection possible.  The lower stays did
>> their
>>>> backup job fine, however, reattaching the plate and repairing the hull
>> was
>>>> expensive.
>>>>
>>>> I ran out of gas trying to beat a storm that was not predicted.  The
>> lesson
>>>> learned was to always carry a full reserve tank on the open lake.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rick Lange
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 1:29 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of us that actually stay overnight at anchor, there are two
>>>>> major issues we worry about:
>>>>> 1: Is my anchor going to drag?
>>>>> 2: If the wind or current shifts, is my swing circle going to interfere
>>>>> with the boats anchored around me?
>>>>>
>>>>> With a given anchor type and anchor rode configuration, the best way to
>>>>> reduce the chance of dragging anchor is to increase the scope ratio.
>> With
>>>>> a small boat, like a Rhodes 22, an all chain anchor rode is simply too
>>>>> heavy to be a practical option.  I use a boat length of chain
>> connected to
>>>>> 150 ft of 3/8 inch diameter three strand nylon rode.
>>>>>
>>>>> The best way to assure your swing circle isn’t going to interfere with
>>>>> other boats is to make your swing radius as small as possible, with an
>>>>> acceptable scope ratio.  Why would I want to make my swing radius
>> bigger?
>>>>> The reality of small sailboat cruising is that we tend to arrive at an
>>>>> anchorage late in the day.  By this time, the power boats have already
>>>>> dropped their hooks for the evening.  We often have to find a place
>> among
>>>>> the boats that are already in place and the newcomer always has to
>> yield
>>>>> right of way.  Having a small swing radius lets us squeeze in where
>> most
>>>>> boats could not.
>>>>>
>>>>> My suggested anchoring technique enables one or the other of these
>> issues
>>>>> to be optimized.  All other anchoring scenarios put together make up a
>> very
>>>>> small % of the total use of your anchor.  I’m glad you were able to
>> keep
>>>>> your boat off the rocks by emergency anchoring.  But, this scenario has
>>>>> very little to do with normal cruising.  Good seamanship would dictate
>> that
>>>>> you inspect your rigging and pay attention to your fuel level so you
>> don’t
>>>>> have to emergency anchor.  But, those are entirely separate issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Pihlaja
>>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
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