[Rhodes22-list] Anchoring

[Mitch Mitchell]

I just discovered after washing my boat that I have a slight leak at the
upper shroud chainplate. I took off the interior trim and saw the same tang
(t-shap) that Todd showed. Has anyone rebedded the topside piece? I don't
really want to unscrew the two bolts/screws in the toe rail and find that I
can't put them back.
[image: Shroud attachment.jpg]

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> So Rick,
>
> Assuming your chainplates were constructed like Todd’s boat, when your
> chainplate pulled out, how did it fail?  Did the thru bolt fail or did the
> tang fail?
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 31, 2023, at 7:30 PM, Todd Tavares <tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Roger, Rick, All,
> >
> > I can not remember much about the upper shroud chainplates which run up
> > through the toe rail; or how the deck to hull joint is constructed for
> that
> > matter, but here are a few pictures I took from my old 1976 model Rhodes
> > 22.  The previous owner cut a section of the cabin liner out with a
> series
> > of drilled holes. The chainplate consisted of two tangs, crossed and
> bolted
> > together. I never investigated them any more than making sure the nuts
> were
> > tight. But looking back at the pictures now, I can't figure out where the
> > heads of the bolts were, but guess they were behind the rub rail. (?) I
> > have never taken the rub rail off any of the three Rhodes 22s I've owned.
> >
> > Todd T
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 6:38 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Rick,
> >>
> >> Tell us more about how one of the upper side stay chainplates failed
> >> suddenly and without warning.  I agree it’s hard to inspect the way it’s
> >> glassed in.  However, if the FRP substrate failed, I would expect it
> would
> >> get “mushy” first.  Similarly, if the stainless steel chainplate itself
> >> failed, I would expect it to gradually get weaker as the pitting and
> cracks
> >> extended.  Either mechanism would cause a situation wherein you would
> have
> >> issues with maintaining the shroud tension.  After every sail, the
> shroud
> >> would be loose.  Since you claim the failure happened suddenly without
> >> warning, please tell us what happened.
> >>
> >> Roger Pihlaja
> >> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:44 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Rick,
> >>>
> >>> What yelling?  You start the engine.  While it’s warming up, you walk
> to
> >> the bow, and snag the anchor rode downstream of the carabiner with a
> boat
> >> hook. You motor slowly forward while pulling in the anchor rode hand
> over
> >> hand over the railing.  Note that you haven’t touched the bow cleat or
> the
> >> carabiner.  When the anchor is aboard, you go and redeploy.  No muss, no
> >> fuss.  I am just claiming that my technique makes it less likely the
> anchor
> >> is going to drag.  Often, your suggested options of going someplace
> else or
> >> going to shore are not available.  The Rhodes 22 has the advantage of
> >> shallow draft and can often be anchored in a corner of the harbor where
> the
> >> big boats can’t go.  We all have a vision of being alone in a pristine
> >> anchorage.  But, that’s often not the reality.  Have you actually done
> much
> >> anchoring out?  What do you propose to do if you’re not willing to
> anchor
> >> in close quarters?  Remember, there are no slips available and it’s too
> >> late to go somewhere else.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:19 PM, Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger,
> >>>>
> >>>> If you wake up dragging, it is likely you will need to quickly
> redeploy.
> >>>> That's not easily and safely done in the dark with your anchor tackle
> >>>> complications.  And any "optimizing" that ignores emergencies just
> >> leads to
> >>>> a short life--and a lot of yelling.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am not suggesting an all chain rode.  I am saying you need a 20'
> chain
> >>>> between anchor and rope rode, as you have.  The rope should be no less
> >> than
> >>>> 7 times longer than the water depth.  If you can't find a spot that
> has
> >>>> enough room, go to shore or to another anchorage.  Good seamanship is
> >> not
> >>>> squeezing in.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the few faults with the R22 is that the chain plates cannot be
> >>>> visually inspected.  Some on this list have opened inspection holes in
> >> the
> >>>> cabin inside walls to make inspection possible.  The lower stays did
> >> their
> >>>> backup job fine, however, reattaching the plate and repairing the hull
> >> was
> >>>> expensive.
> >>>>
> >>>> I ran out of gas trying to beat a storm that was not predicted.  The
> >> lesson
> >>>> learned was to always carry a full reserve tank on the open lake.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Rick Lange
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 1:29 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <
> roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rick,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For those of us that actually stay overnight at anchor, there are two
> >>>>> major issues we worry about:
> >>>>> 1: Is my anchor going to drag?
> >>>>> 2: If the wind or current shifts, is my swing circle going to
> interfere
> >>>>> with the boats anchored around me?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With a given anchor type and anchor rode configuration, the best way
> to
> >>>>> reduce the chance of dragging anchor is to increase the scope ratio.
> >> With
> >>>>> a small boat, like a Rhodes 22, an all chain anchor rode is simply
> too
> >>>>> heavy to be a practical option.  I use a boat length of chain
> >> connected to
> >>>>> 150 ft of 3/8 inch diameter three strand nylon rode.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The best way to assure your swing circle isn’t going to interfere
> with
> >>>>> other boats is to make your swing radius as small as possible, with
> an
> >>>>> acceptable scope ratio.  Why would I want to make my swing radius
> >> bigger?
> >>>>> The reality of small sailboat cruising is that we tend to arrive at
> an
> >>>>> anchorage late in the day.  By this time, the power boats have
> already
> >>>>> dropped their hooks for the evening.  We often have to find a place
> >> among
> >>>>> the boats that are already in place and the newcomer always has to
> >> yield
> >>>>> right of way.  Having a small swing radius lets us squeeze in where
> >> most
> >>>>> boats could not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My suggested anchoring technique enables one or the other of these
> >> issues
> >>>>> to be optimized.  All other anchoring scenarios put together make up
> a
> >> very
> >>>>> small % of the total use of your anchor.  I’m glad you were able to
> >> keep
> >>>>> your boat off the rocks by emergency anchoring.  But, this scenario
> has
> >>>>> very little to do with normal cruising.  Good seamanship would
> dictate
> >> that
> >>>>> you inspect your rigging and pay attention to your fuel level so you
> >> don’t
> >>>>> have to emergency anchor.  But, those are entirely separate issues.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>>>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
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