[Rhodes22-list] Anchoring

Thu Nov 2 12:42:28 EDT 2023

I replaced the rub rail on Respite in 2019.  The Deck to Hull joint is a "shoe box" type, meaning that the vertical flange of the Deck overlaps the Hull. The seam is sealed and S.S. fasteners  #6 or #8 screws are also used, spaced about 24", Max, apart. The Rub Rail is a two part system by TACO Marine PN: V21-9678BKA20 and PN: V12-4144WH. They are available from most marine chandleries. Below is paragraph 6 from my documentary of projects performed on S.V. Respite: (NOTE: Photos did not come through) 
6.	Rub Rail Replacement 

The rub rail on “Respite” was damaged pretty badly in her slip during a storm. Numerous screws were pulled out and the two piece rail was damaged and scuffed (Left photo).  I decided on the replacement route. The existing rail was a two piece design by Taco Marine consisting of a black rigid PVC rail (PN: V21-9678BKA20) and a soft white insert (V12-4144WH**). The rigid rail is 1-1/2” X 5/8” comes in 20’ sections and overlaps the cabin/hull joint. The insert comes in 50’ and 70’ rolls. 
There are numerous YouTube videos on line via West Marine, Taco Marine or Jamestown Supply so I won’t go into the process here other than to discuss some of the things that I did that may or may not prove beneficial. 

First, I filled all of the previous screw holes, and there were many, with 3m 5200 Sealant. Although they would be covered by the rigid rub rail, I trimmed the excess of each with a razor scrapper.
Second, as a precautionary measure, since I have been fighting leaks from somewhere, I inspected the cap/hull seam-joint and there were places that it seemed to show some separation and dryness. Using a Dremel tool with cutter wheel, I cut out a groove the entire perimeter of the joint in the old sealant and using 3M 4200, I caulked the entire joint insuring to get up into the groove I had made as well as any other spots that seemed compromised. I used 4200 because this joint was going to be covered with the rigid rub rail, would provide a bed for the lower edge of the rail and 5200 would become permanent which would preclude any future removal/repair/replacement of the rail. 

Joe Dempsey
Trojan 42 MY
M V Voyager
Ex-Rhodes 22 (1989-2005)
S V Respite
Deltaville, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Rhodes22-list <rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org> On Behalf Of Todd Tavares
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:31 PM
To: The Rhodes 22 Email List <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Anchoring

Roger, Rick, All,

I can not remember much about the upper shroud chainplates which run up through the toe rail; or how the deck to hull joint is constructed for that matter, but here are a few pictures I took from my old 1976 model Rhodes 22.  The previous owner cut a section of the cabin liner out with a series of drilled holes. The chainplate consisted of two tangs, crossed and bolted together. I never investigated them any more than making sure the nuts were tight. But looking back at the pictures now, I can't figure out where the heads of the bolts were, but guess they were behind the rub rail. (?) I have never taken the rub rail off any of the three Rhodes 22s I've owned.

Todd T

On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 6:38 PM ROGER PIHLAJA <roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Tell us more about how one of the upper side stay chainplates failed 
> suddenly and without warning.  I agree it’s hard to inspect the way 
> it’s glassed in.  However, if the FRP substrate failed, I would expect 
> it would get “mushy” first.  Similarly, if the stainless steel 
> chainplate itself failed, I would expect it to gradually get weaker as 
> the pitting and cracks extended.  Either mechanism would cause a 
> situation wherein you would have issues with maintaining the shroud 
> tension.  After every sail, the shroud would be loose.  Since you 
> claim the failure happened suddenly without warning, please tell us what happened.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:44 PM, ROGER PIHLAJA <Roger_Pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > What yelling?  You start the engine.  While it’s warming up, you 
> > walk to
> the bow, and snag the anchor rode downstream of the carabiner with a 
> boat hook. You motor slowly forward while pulling in the anchor rode 
> hand over hand over the railing.  Note that you haven’t touched the 
> bow cleat or the carabiner.  When the anchor is aboard, you go and 
> redeploy.  No muss, no fuss.  I am just claiming that my technique 
> makes it less likely the anchor is going to drag.  Often, your 
> suggested options of going someplace else or going to shore are not 
> available.  The Rhodes 22 has the advantage of shallow draft and can 
> often be anchored in a corner of the harbor where the big boats can’t 
> go.  We all have a vision of being alone in a pristine anchorage.  
> But, that’s often not the reality.  Have you actually done much 
> anchoring out?  What do you propose to do if you’re not willing to 
> anchor in close quarters?  Remember, there are no slips available and it’s too late to go somewhere else.
> >
> > Roger Pihlaja
> > S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Oct 27, 2023, at 4:19 PM, Rick Lange <sloopblueheron at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Roger,
> >>
> >> If you wake up dragging, it is likely you will need to quickly redeploy.
> >> That's not easily and safely done in the dark with your anchor 
> >> tackle complications.  And any "optimizing" that ignores 
> >> emergencies just
> leads to
> >> a short life--and a lot of yelling.
> >>
> >> I am not suggesting an all chain rode.  I am saying you need a 20' 
> >> chain between anchor and rope rode, as you have.  The rope should 
> >> be no less
> than
> >> 7 times longer than the water depth.  If you can't find a spot that 
> >> has enough room, go to shore or to another anchorage.  Good 
> >> seamanship is
> not
> >> squeezing in.
> >>
> >> One of the few faults with the R22 is that the chain plates cannot 
> >> be visually inspected.  Some on this list have opened inspection 
> >> holes in
> the
> >> cabin inside walls to make inspection possible.  The lower stays 
> >> did
> their
> >> backup job fine, however, reattaching the plate and repairing the 
> >> hull
> was
> >> expensive.
> >>
> >> I ran out of gas trying to beat a storm that was not predicted.  
> >> The
> lesson
> >> learned was to always carry a full reserve tank on the open lake.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Rick Lange
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 1:29 PM ROGER PIHLAJA 
> >>>> <roger_pihlaja at msn.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Rick,
> >>>
> >>> For those of us that actually stay overnight at anchor, there are 
> >>> two major issues we worry about:
> >>> 1: Is my anchor going to drag?
> >>> 2: If the wind or current shifts, is my swing circle going to 
> >>> interfere with the boats anchored around me?
> >>>
> >>> With a given anchor type and anchor rode configuration, the best 
> >>> way to reduce the chance of dragging anchor is to increase the scope ratio.
> With
> >>> a small boat, like a Rhodes 22, an all chain anchor rode is simply 
> >>> too heavy to be a practical option.  I use a boat length of chain
> connected to
> >>> 150 ft of 3/8 inch diameter three strand nylon rode.
> >>>
> >>> The best way to assure your swing circle isn’t going to interfere 
> >>> with other boats is to make your swing radius as small as 
> >>> possible, with an acceptable scope ratio.  Why would I want to 
> >>> make my swing radius
> bigger?
> >>> The reality of small sailboat cruising is that we tend to arrive 
> >>> at an anchorage late in the day.  By this time, the power boats 
> >>> have already dropped their hooks for the evening.  We often have 
> >>> to find a place
> among
> >>> the boats that are already in place and the newcomer always has to
> yield
> >>> right of way.  Having a small swing radius lets us squeeze in 
> >>> where
> most
> >>> boats could not.
> >>>
> >>> My suggested anchoring technique enables one or the other of these
> issues
> >>> to be optimized.  All other anchoring scenarios put together make 
> >>> up a
> very
> >>> small % of the total use of your anchor.  I’m glad you were able 
> >>> to
> keep
> >>> your boat off the rocks by emergency anchoring.  But, this 
> >>> scenario has very little to do with normal cruising.  Good 
> >>> seamanship would dictate
> that
> >>> you inspect your rigging and pay attention to your fuel level so 
> >>> you
> don’t
> >>> have to emergency anchor.  But, those are entirely separate issues.
> >>>
> >>> Roger Pihlaja
> >>> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Shroud 1.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 114309 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20231031/311ea9ae/attachment.jpe>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Shroud 2.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 118074 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://rhodes22.org/pipermail/rhodes22-list/attachments/20231031/311ea9ae/attachment-0001.jpe>