[Rhodes22-list] Mast Base Repairs: was Delaminating tiller handle

[Todd Tavares]

From what I understand, the screws only fix the base bracket in place. The
forces exerted by the weight of the mast and rigging is a downward force.
They really don't hold the base down to the boat.
If you have another mishap, and the screws pull out after you've epoxied
them in, you'll have a much larger hole in the boat, possibly pulling the
top layer of fiberglass with the base, instead of the 7/32" holes you have
now.

Todd T

On Wed, Nov 8, 2023, 9:06 PM peter beckerman via Rhodes22-list <
rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:

>  Hi Todd,   Thanks for the response.  I had a screw pull out due to a mast
> raising mistake (1st time raising ie. a learning experience ....I've been
> having a bunch of learning experiences since I bought this boat).  I was
> under the impression that, more or less, the fix for a pulled screw was to
> drill out the threads and fill with thickened epoxy.  Some then tap threads
> (hard), some drill a pilot hole and use a wood screw (easier...and the
> approach I've been tentatively planning on pursuing), and I gather that
> some set the screw before the epoxy hardens, essentially glueing the screw
> in place.   My (limited) understanding is using the epoxy-drill-wood screw
> method allows the screw to pull out in case the mast levers the
> tabernacle.  I suppose I could alternatively epoxy a wood plug in a drilled
> hole and screw into that.  I know this has been discussed on the list
> before, at some point I'll search previous postings.
> Peter
>     On Wednesday, November 8, 2023 at 07:20:51 AM EST, Todd Tavares <
> tavares0947 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Peter,
> I have not read all of the responses to your mast base bracket questions.
> Did the screws pull out because of water intrusion and rotted core? Or was
> it the result of a mast lowering mistake which lifted the bracket and
> pulled the screws out?The screws pulling out is the desired fail point,
> which keeps a mistake, like forgetting to disconnect the pop top from the
> mast before lowering, from ripping the top of the cabin off.
> But in either case, the screws should not be screwed into anything other
> than the plywood core of the cabin top raised pad, if that's what you are
> calling the tabernacle.If a mistake while lowering the mast levered the
> screws out; and it were me on my boat,  I'd fill the old holes with sealer
> or some thinkened epoxy and drill new holes in the bracket to move the
> screws. If the core was wet and/or rotted I'd replace the failed core and
> fix it by normal (West System) methods and put the screws back in the
> original holes going into only the wood, and sealed.If you make a permanent
> epoxy repair, or heaven forbid, through bolted the base bracket, next time
> the damage would or could be more extensive.
> Todd T.
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2023, 9:47 PM peter beckerman via Rhodes22-list <
> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
>
>  Thanks to everyone for your insights,    Roger that sounds like exactly
> what I was looking for!  Someone else asked for clarification about the
> mixing ratio's, so I'll await you answer to them.  Can I assume the 209/105
> combination (without the acetone) would also be suitable for fixing a
> pulled out tabernacle screw? That's another fix in my future and it looks
> like the smallest quantity they sell is a pint which is a bit more than the
> tiller handle requires.Thanks yet again for your expertise, you always
> offer excellent counsel.    Peter
>     On Tuesday, November 7, 2023 at 11:03:11 AM EST, ROGER PIHLAJA <
> roger_pihlaja at msn.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi Peter,
>
> At one point in my career at the Dow Chemical Co, I was chief engineer at
> a plant where we made C fiber insulation for the, then new, C-17 cargo
> plane.  As I recall, a 10%wt solution of epoxy in acetone was thin enough
> to spray with a conventional paint sprayer.  The thinned epoxy/acetone
> solution would flow by capillary action along the fibers and tended to
> gather at the fiber/fiber intersections.  Here, the acetone would
> evaporate.  When the epoxy kicked off, it bound the fibers together.  I
> would use the West System 209 extra slow hardener and 105 resin.  Mix up
> the resin/acetone & hardener/acetone separately and then mix them
> together.  At 75 degrees F, this will give you ~45 minutes of pot life and
> ~24 hours to fully cure.  This will be plenty of time for the acetone to
> evaporate and diffuse away.  Until the epoxy kicks off, the mixture will be
> thin enough to inject with a hypodermic syringe.  But, you could also just
> brush it over the crack and let it be drawn in by capillary action.  The
> thinned epoxy will also soak into the wood along the crack.  So, there will
> be very little squeeze out.  This will greatly strengthen the repair.  Once
> you have the crack filled, clamp the piece to force the crack faces
> together and clean up any squeeze out with a cloth damp with acetone.  You
> will end up with a solid epoxy/wood composite that will last so long,
> you’ll be able to pass it down to your grandchildren.
>
> Roger Pihlaja
> S/V Dynamic Equilibrium
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 7, 2023, at 10:16 AM, Mark Whipple <mark at whipplefamily.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just repaired a delaminated tiller I got from Stan. I used epoxy and
> > syringes made for use with epoxy. The epoxy I use is from a company in FL
> > called RAKA and is pretty low viscosity - thinner than West as I recall.
> >
> > I laid down some wax paper (epoxy doesn't stick to it) and put the tiller
> > on its side - after digging out as much of the gaps as possible. After
> > mixing the epoxy I used the syringe to direct the epoxy into the gap. I
> > clamped the tiller to close the gap. I think I probably used unthickened
> > epoxy first to coat the surfaces and then added some silica to thicken it
> > and put some of that in the gap as well.
> >
> > There were a number of gaps in this tiller and I also drilled out and
> > filled several holes, so it took a few days to get it all done, but it
> > looks pretty good now. I may drive some screws in from the bottom of the
> > tiller to further reinforce where the cracks were.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Boston, MA
> > 2000 R22 *When and If*
> >
> >> On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 10:00 AM peter beckerman via Rhodes22-list <
> >> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,  My tiller handle has some delamination to the point that you
> can
> >> see light through a gap in the wood.  I want to glue it back together
> and
> >> then revarnish it.  I'm wondering if anyone has any good techniques for
> >> getting glue into the gap.  I was thinking of trying to thin some glue
> and
> >> injecting in with a small needle, but it needs to be pretty thin to
> force
> >> it through such a tiny lumen.  Anyone know of a better approach?  Any
> word
> >> glue that can be made pretty thin?
> >> Thanks,  Peter
> >>
>
>
>
>