[Rhodes22-list] A Conversation with Stan Spitzer
Frank Goldsmith
goldsmith.cf at gmail.com
Tue Jul 30 14:58:29 EDT 2024
Thanks for this — a joy to read again. Vintage Stan — you can just hear him speaking.
Frank
> On Jul 29, 2024, at 12:16 PM, Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I had read this previously, but it just appeared again today in my inbox.
> Pure Stan!
>
> Michael McKay (mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: from Small Craft Advisor <smallcraftadvisor at substack.com>
> Date: Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 12:11 PM
> Subject: A Conversation with Stan Spitzer
> To: <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
>
>
> Owner of General Boats (Rhodes 22)
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> A Conversation with Stan Spitzer
> <https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1071549&post_id=147130528&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=1s6jxy&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMDc4MDEyMDYsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE0NzEzMDUyOCwiaWF0IjoxNzIyMjY5NDU4LCJleHAiOjE3MjQ4NjE0NTgsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0xMDcxNTQ5Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.RzPSfTkZ0qVeWN1uqzuaskskqBTcILWsKnBH9DfExUg>Owner
> of General Boats (Rhodes 22)
>
> Jul 29
>
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>
> *I had the opportunity to talk with Stan Spitzer, owner of General Boats
> <https://substack.com/redirect/d0f0c2f7-6dad-47c3-a2cb-29bc4ab00f28?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20>,
> in January of 2016 at his General Boats Plant in Edenton, North Carolina.
> General Boats has been in the sailboat business since 1959 and is best
> known for the Rhodes 22. Stan is 90 years old and continues to manage the
> day to day operations of General Boats.—Jerry Thompson*
> <https://substack.com/redirect/990e10b3-29d0-430d-948b-222a780777c4?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20>
>
> *Why and when did you break into the sailboat business?*
>
> I enjoyed sailing and it seemed like a good business to get into. I started
> by thinking about names. I thought an Atom line of sailboats would be
> nice—Atom, 20, Atom 25 etc. In those days, the late 40s, the bomb had been
> dropped and atomic energy was a big deal. Sometime later I bumped into a
> friend from high school who had served in France during the war. He told me
> that they were doing great things with sailboats in France and why don’t we
> import some? I said sure, what have I got to lose? We kept our jobs and
> formed a company called Nordica Corporation. He flew to France and made
> arrangements to bring back a sailboat. The first we imported was a Corsaire
> designed by Herbulot, a famous French designer. It sailed well, but did not
> hold up. It was made of plywood and the French were behind the United
> States in technology. I took one to the New York Boat Show which at the
> time was the only boat show going. And it was gigantic. I was in
> advertising so I wrote the copy and made up a brochure. Time magazine came
> by our booth and wrote us up. The show was mostly motorboats with very few
> sailboats—sailboats where just not that big at the time. My partners had a
> meeting after the show and told me that I was out. Something about me and
> my style didn’t sit well with them so they returned my initial $6,000
> investment and I was out of Nordica Corporation. Years later I ran into one
> of my old partners and he told me to not feel bad about being thrown out as
> they went out of business shortly after kicking me out and lost all their
> investment.
>
> *How did you move on from that disappointing start?*
>
> Well, I was hooked after that first boat show. But I had to start from
> scratch. The graphic artist I worked with at the agency said he liked
> sailboats, so together we formed General Boats in 1959 keeping our day jobs
> of course. This was way before Hunter and Catalina and we even beat O’Day
> into the business. About this time sailing was starting to take off so our
> timing was good.
>
> *How did you decide on the name General Boats?*
>
> I always thought big. So I looked around and said I’ll take the best name I
> can find. There was General Motors, General Electric, General Dynamics so I
> thought I would try General Boats. I was afraid somebody already had it,
> but they didn’t. It was free so we had our name.
> <https://substack.com/redirect/e79f0a65-04fa-4e18-a533-f91a45c96834?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20>
>
> *What was your first boat?*
>
> I sought out a naval architect I had heard of, Nils Lucander. Nils did not
> have a name in those days as he was just starting out. So I asked him to
> design a sailboat and he said sure I’ll do it and he did it for practically
> nothing. And so we came out with the Picnic 17. I wrote the copy for a
> brochure. The graphic artist I worked with did the artwork and it was a
> beautiful brochure. But the boat wasn’t so hot. From my point of view I
> wanted it to do everything to appeal to a broad market. We headlined it as
> a sailboat, motorboat, ski boat, fishing boat. And I found out people who
> came to the show didn’t know what to buy so they brought their experts with
> them who were sailors. And they would say it cannot be all those things; a
> sailboat is a sailboat and a motorboat is a motorboat. I was claiming too
> much.
>
> *Did you produce the Picnic 17?*
>
> No, producing as that was the last thing I wanted to do. I was smart enough
> to know not to get involved with building the boat, let somebody else do
> that. I was approached by Lofland Sail-Craft out of Wichita, Kansas. They
> sought me out and said they would like to build the Picnic 17 for me.
> Francis Lofland was a lovely guy and began producing the Picnic 17 for me.
> But I couldn’t get enough out of him. He had his own business building the
> Snipe and other boats, so I was at the bottom of the list. So I went to
> another company. I went to Ray Greene who was building the Rebel 16 and a
> line of boats. He started building the Picnic 17 for me, but the same thing
> happened: I couldn’t get enough. Ray Greene didn’t turn out a good boat.
> His own boats were okay, but I was not his priority. It was hard to get
> them to put their heart and soul into a product that wasn’t theirs. I went
> to another company in Nova Scotia, Industrial Shipping Company Limited, and
> they were wonderful. They got into building the Picnic 17 and built them
> fast and very well. But then the guy I was dealing with there, George
> McGovern, who was a very nice guy, died, ending my deal with that company
> as he was the guy who wanted to build the Picnic for me. It was one thing
> after another. So I decided at that point if I was going to stay in this
> business I have got to make a boat that has a reputation behind it. Nils
> Lucander would become a big name eventually, but at that point customers
> would ask who the Picnic was designed by and I would tell them Nils
> Lucander, but they never heard of him. So I had to get a name behind me.
>
> *How many Picnic 17s did you sell?*
>
> We ended up selling 350 which encouraged us to stay in the business, but we
> needed a name. Roger McGregor saw the Picnic 17 at a show and told me he
> liked the notion of a sailboat/motorboat. This was before he was building
> sailboats, but he put that idea back in his mind and eventually produced
> his own line of motorsailors. We became very good friends over the years.
> He was a very smart guy, top in his class at Stanford.
>
> *What came after the Picnic 17?*
>
> I needed something new. The naval architects in those days didn’t charge
> based upon their reputations but by the size of the boat they were
> designing. At that time the number one reputation belonged to Phillip
> Rhodes. So I decided that’s easy, you start at the top and when he says no
> you work your way down. His office was on Lexington Avenue also in New York
> City where I was living. So I made up some sketches and went and knocked on
> his door and he answered. There were lots of people working there, it was a
> big firm, but he answered the door. He looked down on me and said “What do
> you want?” I said I would like you to design a boat for me. I showed him
> the sketches. At that time he would get a call from the Rockefellers saying
> hey Phil I need a 55-foot yacht, and he would design it for them. But there
> I was with sketches of a 22-foot boat and here is this guy a very well
> known, famous naval architect. And he said, “You know what, I have not
> designed a smaller boat in a long time, I think I want to do this.” I
> almost fell over. And I worked with him a year in his office and I learned
> a lot about designing. Of course he would turn it over to somebody else and
> he would walk around like a school teacher making suggestions, changes and
> corrections.
>
> *Was it expensive to have the top naval architect of the time design your
> boat?*
>
> There were two ways you could work with Phillip Rhodes. You could say it
> was your product and pay a royalty on each hull produced, or you could say
> I’ll commission you and pay you a flat fee and it is my product. I said I’d
> rather own it outright and he said fine.
>
> *The Rhodes 22 has a very unique hull flare. Was that your idea or
> Phillip’s?*
>
> I was always looking at other boats and one was an Olympic racing boat, the
> 505. It had what was called an upside down wineglass shape to the hull. And
> so I wondered about that flare and started thinking about it from an
> engineering point of view. And it began to dawn on me it had a lot of
> advantages. First, it had a built in hiking seat. You could sit out on the
> flare beyond the hull itself, you could carry more sail and keep the boat
> flat, I liked that idea. Then I thought it also makes a very dry hull. In a
> regular sailboat the waves break over the side and into the cockpit, a wave
> hits the flare and goes out away from the cockpit—very dry. I looked at it
> more and recognized that because it was a compound curve instead of a
> simple curve, it would be very strong. So using the same fiberglass the
> other guys use I would have a much stronger hull. The sketches I gave to
> Phil had the flare and he told me he liked what I was doing, but he didn’t
> like the flare, “That’s a motorboat, doesn’t look like a sailboat.” He
> didn’t like it, but I insisted and he said it was my money so I could go
> for it. After working on it a while Phil said the flare was growing on him.
> By the time he finished he said he liked it.
>
> *I have heard the boat referred to as the Rhodes Continental.*
>
> When I was first thinking about names the Lincoln Continental was a very
> popular automobile, so I tried Rhodes Continental, two big names. But I
> changed that not too long after to the Rhodes 22.
>
> *How was the Rhodes 22 received by the public?*
>
> I had a model made and brought it to the New York boat show, and when
> people saw it they either didn’t like it because it looked like a motorboat
> or they loved it; it was extremes. I didn’t need the whole market, I just
> needed a piece. It came out for $2,500. I put a big red ribbon around it.
> You got the boat, the sails, the cushions, the lines, everything. With all
> other sailboats everything was extra, the price sheet on sailboats in those
> days was pages. I came out with a price for the whole package and that
> worked. I started taking orders.
>
> *What year was that?*
>
> Phil designed the boat in 1968 and we began having them produced in 1970.
>
> *What do you most enjoy about the sailboat business?*
>
> The customers. My customers have all been wonderful. Well, once there was a
> guy who was a pain in the neck. He came to my office and I sat him down and
> got out my checkbook and started writing. He said what are you doing? I
> said I’m giving you your money back. He said I don’t want the money; I want
> your boat. So I told him to stop being such a pain in the neck and he
> agreed. And there was one other guy who liked the boat and bought it, but
> came back and said his family didn’t take to it and asked if I would take
> it back. I said yes I’ll give you all of your money back. He said you’ll
> give all my money back? I said sure. I don’t want anybody sailing the boat
> who isn’t happy with it. I always tell my customers that they are our sales
> force. We don’t sell through dealers. So you’ve got to be happy with the
> boat. If you are not happy, I’m not going to let you keep it.
> <https://substack.com/redirect/b60057d0-8eb7-4aa2-a1b5-0b8cc1130f1b?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20>
>
> *How many Rhodes 22s have been built?*
>
> 2,500. That is not an exact number as through the years we lost track of a
> few, but at least 2,500.
>
> *Tell me about your recycled boats?*
>
> As the sales of new boats dropped off I started thinking of ways to make up
> for it. So I came up with the recycled boat program. We would purchase
> older hulls, go completely over them, and sell them for much less than a
> new boat. And they look and perform like new boats. I have a boat out in
> the yard now that is 30 years old and a customer the other day thought it
> was new. The recycled boats kept us in business. But it was a double-edged
> sword as it hurt further the new boat business. But, we are still in
> business.
>
> *Are you the only builder that has a recycle program?*
>
> To my knowledge, yes. The reason it worked is that we sold direct. It would
> not work if you sold through dealers, which most builders do.
>
> *Did you go to Annapolis this year?*
>
> Yes, we were at the first show in1970 and have not missed a single show.
>
> *You have shown at every Annapolis Boat Show?*
>
> Yes, we’ve worked our way up from being way in the rear end of the show to
> what I call the prime corner location. We have shown at 45 shows and hope
> to make 50. *•SCA•*
>
> *Stan Spitzer and the Rhodes 22 have a very strong following of owners,
> known as Rhodies, who are fiercely loyal to Stan and the Rhodes 22. Stan is
> still selling new and recycled Rhodes 22s at his plant in Edenton, North
> Carolina. *
>
> *Jerry Thompson is an Information Systems professional who works and lives
> in eastern North Carolina. He learned to sail over 25 years ago at the
> Armed Forces Recreation Center, Lake Chiemsee, Germany. North Carolina’s
> milder winters keep Jerry on the water year round.*
>
> First appeared in issue #109
>
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