[Rhodes22-list] A Conversation with Stan Spitzer

Tue Jul 30 17:51:17 EDT 2024

A joy to re live that moment in time that transcends time.
Chris G
XENOS

On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 3:15 PM Frank Goldsmith <goldsmith.cf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for this — a joy to read again.  Vintage Stan — you can just hear
> him speaking.
>
> Frank
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 2024, at 12:16 PM, Michael McKay <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I had read this previously, but it just appeared again today in my inbox.
> > Pure Stan!
> >
> > Michael McKay (mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com)
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: from Small Craft Advisor <smallcraftadvisor at substack.com>
> > Date: Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 12:11 PM
> > Subject: A Conversation with Stan Spitzer
> > To: <mm.bizlist1 at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > Owner of General Boats (Rhodes 22)
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> > ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> >   ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏
> ͏
> >    ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     ͏     
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> > A Conversation with Stan Spitzer
> > <
> https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1071549&post_id=147130528&utm_source=post-email-title&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=1s6jxy&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMDc4MDEyMDYsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE0NzEzMDUyOCwiaWF0IjoxNzIyMjY5NDU4LCJleHAiOjE3MjQ4NjE0NTgsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0xMDcxNTQ5Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.RzPSfTkZ0qVeWN1uqzuaskskqBTcILWsKnBH9DfExUg
> >Owner
> > of General Boats (Rhodes 22)
> >
> > Jul 29
> >
> > <
> https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1071549&post_id=147130528&utm_source=substack&isFreemail=false&submitLike=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMDc4MDEyMDYsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE0NzEzMDUyOCwicmVhY3Rpb24iOiLinaQiLCJpYXQiOjE3MjIyNjk0NTgsImV4cCI6MTcyNDg2MTQ1OCwiaXNzIjoicHViLTEwNzE1NDkiLCJzdWIiOiJyZWFjdGlvbiJ9.c7R0hFQb9tVY9Tau6tBKUUupCKVSkyksSSesGpUuYks&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-reaction&r=1s6jxy
> >
> > <
> https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1071549&post_id=147130528&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&isFreemail=false&comments=true&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMDc4MDEyMDYsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE0NzEzMDUyOCwiaWF0IjoxNzIyMjY5NDU4LCJleHAiOjE3MjQ4NjE0NTgsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0xMDcxNTQ5Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.RzPSfTkZ0qVeWN1uqzuaskskqBTcILWsKnBH9DfExUg&r=1s6jxy&utm_campaign=email-half-magic-comments&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
> >
> > <
> https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=1071549&post_id=147130528&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&action=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=false&r=1s6jxy&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMDc4MDEyMDYsInBvc3RfaWQiOjE0NzEzMDUyOCwiaWF0IjoxNzIyMjY5NDU4LCJleHAiOjE3MjQ4NjE0NTgsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0xMDcxNTQ5Iiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.RzPSfTkZ0qVeWN1uqzuaskskqBTcILWsKnBH9DfExUg
> >
> > <
> https://substack.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.x2M6j7Ar8TyP7U0CczDNbT--wpEhhMTIKxbxyB0rs5E?&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
> >
> >
> > READ IN APP
> > <
> https://open.substack.com/pub/smallcraftadvisor/p/a-conversation-with-stan-spitzer?utm_source=email&redirect=app-store
> >
> >
> >
> > *I had the opportunity to talk with Stan Spitzer, owner of General Boats
> > <
> https://substack.com/redirect/d0f0c2f7-6dad-47c3-a2cb-29bc4ab00f28?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20
> >,
> > in January of 2016 at his General Boats Plant in Edenton, North Carolina.
> > General Boats has been in the sailboat business since 1959 and is best
> > known for the Rhodes 22. Stan is 90 years old and continues to manage the
> > day to day operations of General Boats.—Jerry Thompson*
> > <
> https://substack.com/redirect/990e10b3-29d0-430d-948b-222a780777c4?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20
> >
> >
> > *Why and when did you break into the sailboat business?*
> >
> > I enjoyed sailing and it seemed like a good business to get into. I
> started
> > by thinking about names. I thought an Atom line of sailboats would be
> > nice—Atom, 20, Atom 25 etc. In those days, the late 40s, the bomb had
> been
> > dropped and atomic energy was a big deal. Sometime later I bumped into a
> > friend from high school who had served in France during the war. He told
> me
> > that they were doing great things with sailboats in France and why don’t
> we
> > import some? I said sure, what have I got to lose? We kept our jobs and
> > formed a company called Nordica Corporation. He flew to France and made
> > arrangements to bring back a sailboat. The first we imported was a
> Corsaire
> > designed by Herbulot, a famous French designer. It sailed well, but did
> not
> > hold up. It was made of plywood and the French were behind the United
> > States in technology. I took one to the New York Boat Show which at the
> > time was the only boat show going. And it was gigantic. I was in
> > advertising so I wrote the copy and made up a brochure. Time magazine
> came
> > by our booth and wrote us up. The show was mostly motorboats with very
> few
> > sailboats—sailboats where just not that big at the time. My partners had
> a
> > meeting after the show and told me that I was out. Something about me and
> > my style didn’t sit well with them so they returned my initial $6,000
> > investment and I was out of Nordica Corporation. Years later I ran into
> one
> > of my old partners and he told me to not feel bad about being thrown out
> as
> > they went out of business shortly after kicking me out and lost all their
> > investment.
> >
> > *How did you move on from that disappointing start?*
> >
> > Well, I was hooked after that first boat show. But I had to start from
> > scratch. The graphic artist I worked with at the agency said he liked
> > sailboats, so together we formed General Boats in 1959 keeping our day
> jobs
> > of course. This was way before Hunter and Catalina and we even beat O’Day
> > into the business. About this time sailing was starting to take off so
> our
> > timing was good.
> >
> > *How did you decide on the name General Boats?*
> >
> > I always thought big. So I looked around and said I’ll take the best
> name I
> > can find. There was General Motors, General Electric, General Dynamics
> so I
> > thought I would try General Boats. I was afraid somebody already had it,
> > but they didn’t. It was free so we had our name.
> > <
> https://substack.com/redirect/e79f0a65-04fa-4e18-a533-f91a45c96834?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20
> >
> >
> > *What was your first boat?*
> >
> > I sought out a naval architect I had heard of, Nils Lucander. Nils did
> not
> > have a name in those days as he was just starting out. So I asked him to
> > design a sailboat and he said sure I’ll do it and he did it for
> practically
> > nothing. And so we came out with the Picnic 17. I wrote the copy for a
> > brochure. The graphic artist I worked with did the artwork and it was a
> > beautiful brochure. But the boat wasn’t so hot. From my point of view I
> > wanted it to do everything to appeal to a broad market. We headlined it
> as
> > a sailboat, motorboat, ski boat, fishing boat. And I found out people who
> > came to the show didn’t know what to buy so they brought their experts
> with
> > them who were sailors. And they would say it cannot be all those things;
> a
> > sailboat is a sailboat and a motorboat is a motorboat. I was claiming too
> > much.
> >
> > *Did you produce the Picnic 17?*
> >
> > No, producing as that was the last thing I wanted to do. I was smart
> enough
> > to know not to get involved with building the boat, let somebody else do
> > that. I was approached by Lofland Sail-Craft out of Wichita, Kansas. They
> > sought me out and said they would like to build the Picnic 17 for me.
> > Francis Lofland was a lovely guy and began producing the Picnic 17 for
> me.
> > But I couldn’t get enough out of him. He had his own business building
> the
> > Snipe and other boats, so I was at the bottom of the list. So I went to
> > another company. I went to Ray Greene who was building the Rebel 16 and a
> > line of boats. He started building the Picnic 17 for me, but the same
> thing
> > happened: I couldn’t get enough. Ray Greene didn’t turn out a good boat.
> > His own boats were okay, but I was not his priority. It was hard to get
> > them to put their heart and soul into a product that wasn’t theirs. I
> went
> > to another company in Nova Scotia, Industrial Shipping Company Limited,
> and
> > they were wonderful. They got into building the Picnic 17 and built them
> > fast and very well. But then the guy I was dealing with there, George
> > McGovern, who was a very nice guy, died, ending my deal with that company
> > as he was the guy who wanted to build the Picnic for me. It was one thing
> > after another. So I decided at that point if I was going to stay in this
> > business I have got to make a boat that has a reputation behind it. Nils
> > Lucander would become a big name eventually, but at that point customers
> > would ask who the Picnic was designed by and I would tell them Nils
> > Lucander, but they never heard of him. So I had to get a name behind me.
> >
> > *How many Picnic 17s did you sell?*
> >
> > We ended up selling 350 which encouraged us to stay in the business, but
> we
> > needed a name. Roger McGregor saw the Picnic 17 at a show and told me he
> > liked the notion of a sailboat/motorboat. This was before he was building
> > sailboats, but he put that idea back in his mind and eventually produced
> > his own line of motorsailors. We became very good friends over the years.
> > He was a very smart guy, top in his class at Stanford.
> >
> > *What came after the Picnic 17?*
> >
> > I needed something new. The naval architects in those days didn’t charge
> > based upon their reputations but by the size of the boat they were
> > designing. At that time the number one reputation belonged to Phillip
> > Rhodes. So I decided that’s easy, you start at the top and when he says
> no
> > you work your way down. His office was on Lexington Avenue also in New
> York
> > City where I was living. So I made up some sketches and went and knocked
> on
> > his door and he answered. There were lots of people working there, it
> was a
> > big firm, but he answered the door. He looked down on me and said “What
> do
> > you want?” I said I would like you to design a boat for me. I showed him
> > the sketches. At that time he would get a call from the Rockefellers
> saying
> > hey Phil I need a 55-foot yacht, and he would design it for them. But
> there
> > I was with sketches of a 22-foot boat and here is this guy a very well
> > known, famous naval architect. And he said, “You know what, I have not
> > designed a smaller boat in a long time, I think I want to do this.” I
> > almost fell over. And I worked with him a year in his office and I
> learned
> > a lot about designing. Of course he would turn it over to somebody else
> and
> > he would walk around like a school teacher making suggestions, changes
> and
> > corrections.
> >
> > *Was it expensive to have the top naval architect of the time design your
> > boat?*
> >
> > There were two ways you could work with Phillip Rhodes. You could say it
> > was your product and pay a royalty on each hull produced, or you could
> say
> > I’ll commission you and pay you a flat fee and it is my product. I said
> I’d
> > rather own it outright and he said fine.
> >
> > *The Rhodes 22 has a very unique hull flare. Was that your idea or
> > Phillip’s?*
> >
> > I was always looking at other boats and one was an Olympic racing boat,
> the
> > 505. It had what was called an upside down wineglass shape to the hull.
> And
> > so I wondered about that flare and started thinking about it from an
> > engineering point of view. And it began to dawn on me it had a lot of
> > advantages. First, it had a built in hiking seat. You could sit out on
> the
> > flare beyond the hull itself, you could carry more sail and keep the boat
> > flat, I liked that idea. Then I thought it also makes a very dry hull.
> In a
> > regular sailboat the waves break over the side and into the cockpit, a
> wave
> > hits the flare and goes out away from the cockpit—very dry. I looked at
> it
> > more and recognized that because it was a compound curve instead of a
> > simple curve, it would be very strong. So using the same fiberglass the
> > other guys use I would have a much stronger hull. The sketches I gave to
> > Phil had the flare and he told me he liked what I was doing, but he
> didn’t
> > like the flare, “That’s a motorboat, doesn’t look like a sailboat.” He
> > didn’t like it, but I insisted and he said it was my money so I could go
> > for it. After working on it a while Phil said the flare was growing on
> him.
> > By the time he finished he said he liked it.
> >
> > *I have heard the boat referred to as the Rhodes Continental.*
> >
> > When I was first thinking about names the Lincoln Continental was a very
> > popular automobile, so I tried Rhodes Continental, two big names. But I
> > changed that not too long after to the Rhodes 22.
> >
> > *How was the Rhodes 22 received by the public?*
> >
> > I had a model made and brought it to the New York boat show, and when
> > people saw it they either didn’t like it because it looked like a
> motorboat
> > or they loved it; it was extremes. I didn’t need the whole market, I just
> > needed a piece. It came out for $2,500. I put a big red ribbon around it.
> > You got the boat, the sails, the cushions, the lines, everything. With
> all
> > other sailboats everything was extra, the price sheet on sailboats in
> those
> > days was pages. I came out with a price for the whole package and that
> > worked. I started taking orders.
> >
> > *What year was that?*
> >
> > Phil designed the boat in 1968 and we began having them produced in 1970.
> >
> > *What do you most enjoy about the sailboat business?*
> >
> > The customers. My customers have all been wonderful. Well, once there
> was a
> > guy who was a pain in the neck. He came to my office and I sat him down
> and
> > got out my checkbook and started writing. He said what are you doing? I
> > said I’m giving you your money back. He said I don’t want the money; I
> want
> > your boat. So I told him to stop being such a pain in the neck and he
> > agreed. And there was one other guy who liked the boat and bought it, but
> > came back and said his family didn’t take to it and asked if I would take
> > it back. I said yes I’ll give you all of your money back. He said you’ll
> > give all my money back? I said sure. I don’t want anybody sailing the
> boat
> > who isn’t happy with it. I always tell my customers that they are our
> sales
> > force. We don’t sell through dealers. So you’ve got to be happy with the
> > boat. If you are not happy, I’m not going to let you keep it.
> > <
> https://substack.com/redirect/b60057d0-8eb7-4aa2-a1b5-0b8cc1130f1b?j=eyJ1IjoiMXM2anh5In0.idUYEqiG8vYXmLoHe42WspKQfXHbopl4fq_FzkMXn20
> >
> >
> > *How many Rhodes 22s have been built?*
> >
> > 2,500. That is not an exact number as through the years we lost track of
> a
> > few, but at least 2,500.
> >
> > *Tell me about your recycled boats?*
> >
> > As the sales of new boats dropped off I started thinking of ways to make
> up
> > for it. So I came up with the recycled boat program. We would purchase
> > older hulls, go completely over them, and sell them for much less than a
> > new boat. And they look and perform like new boats. I have a boat out in
> > the yard now that is 30 years old and a customer the other day thought it
> > was new. The recycled boats kept us in business. But it was a
> double-edged
> > sword as it hurt further the new boat business. But, we are still in
> > business.
> >
> > *Are you the only builder that has a recycle program?*
> >
> > To my knowledge, yes. The reason it worked is that we sold direct. It
> would
> > not work if you sold through dealers, which most builders do.
> >
> > *Did you go to Annapolis this year?*
> >
> > Yes, we were at the first show in1970 and have not missed a single show.
> >
> > *You have shown at every Annapolis Boat Show?*
> >
> > Yes, we’ve worked our way up from being way in the rear end of the show
> to
> > what I call the prime corner location. We have shown at 45 shows and hope
> > to make 50. *•SCA•*
> >
> > *Stan Spitzer and the Rhodes 22 have a very strong following of owners,
> > known as Rhodies, who are fiercely loyal to Stan and the Rhodes 22. Stan
> is
> > still selling new and recycled Rhodes 22s at his plant in Edenton, North
> > Carolina. *
> >
> > *Jerry Thompson is an Information Systems professional who works and
> lives
> > in eastern North Carolina. He learned to sail over 25 years ago at the
> > Armed Forces Recreation Center, Lake Chiemsee, Germany. North Carolina’s
> > milder winters keep Jerry on the water year round.*
> >
> > First appeared in issue #109
> >
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> >
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> >
> > © 2024 Joshua Colvin
> > PO Box 8958, Moscow, ID 83843
> > Unsubscribe
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> ?>
> >
> > [image: Start writing]
> > <
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>