[Rhodes22-list] Complaint to Slim - Political reply to his Political Post -

Thu Nov 13 14:52:31 EST 2008

god

Wassup?

Andrew

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Brad Haslett <flybrad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Stop it!  Stop it all you chickenshits!  If you want to have a
> discussion we'll have a discussion but I've seen this before on this
> list and I won't stand by and watch you do it again.  You have your
> opinion, others have theirs.  I've left this list three times and came
> back every time because one of you got tired of your mental
> masturbation party and invited me back.  Stop it!  Let Herb have his
> voice heard!  If what you really want is a circle jerk amongst
> yourselves then just say so.
>
> Brad
>
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Andrew Collins
> <sailingvesselcarmen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Herb
> >
> > How do you classify the free-market socialism that is being imposed on us
> by
> > Paulson, Bernanke and so forth. We are paying for a horrible lack of
> > leadership, greed run amok, even Dubya says the Wall St has a hang-over,
> > which is not an endorsement! I am not assigning blame here, although I
> have
> > very strong opinions on this, merely pointing out inconvenient and
> > unfortunate facts.
> >
> > These guys are not productive, they were destructive, now they won't
> lend,
> > so they are not productive in that sense.
> > We are a society. How do reconcile that with individualism and paying
> your
> > own way - your words. These guys are sucking the teat of the gubmint like
> no
> > one ever has before. These 36 O rings are free market socialists.
> >
> > John Schulick is paying his own way, he works, pays taxes, hustles and
> has
> > an R22 to keep him sane, just like the rest of us.
> >
> > You are generally logical but not rational in your diatribes, here I do
> not
> > get it. I know you see what is happening out there, how do you square it?
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Herb Parsons <hparsons at parsonsys.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> John, you've made an incorrect leap. Non-productive is a description.
> >> Sorry you don't like it, but in the context of the discussion, it fit.
> >> It's not a "right", it's a factual statement. The discussion was taxes.
> >> If you're not paying taxes, you're not productive in that sense. It's
> >> not a judgement call, it's just the way it is.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry if that offends you, I truly am, but that does not change my
> >> view.
> >>
> >> When you get more for the government then you put in, then you're
> >> non-productive in that sense. It doesn't mean you have no value, but it
> >> DOES mean that someone else is having to pay your way. Life costs money.
> >> I don't want to be forced to pay your way. If you don't like my view on
> >> that, I understand, but it's my view, and I'm entitled to it.
> >>
> >> However, your insinuation that I want to do something to folks in that
> >> situation, that I have some "final solution" was off the mark. You're
> >> simply wrong. You imposed on a view on me that is not mine. My "final
> >> solution" is to allow people to make their own choices, and live with
> >> the results of those choices.
> >>
> >> If/when you say nonsense like that, you can expect a similar response
> >> from me in the future.
> >>
> >> I would love to be a full time sailing captain. I have the credentials
> >> to do so. However, I do not have the belief that I can support my
> >> current bills and do so; so I will wait. That's my decision. It would be
> >> improper for me to insist that someone else cover my mortgage, feed my
> >> wife, grand-daughter, and daughter and pay my slip fees while I pursue
> >> what I want. I will pursue it when I believe I can. That's called
> >> responsibility.
> >>
> >> If you believe that it's OK to take money form one group to finance
> >> another, that's a socialist view. You may have other non-socialist views
> >> (usually, that would be capitalist views), enough to make you more of a
> >> capitalist than a socialist, but neither term is a stigma, they
> >> represent views.
> >>
> >> If you don't have those socialist views, then you understand completely
> >> the concept of paying your own way.
> >>
> >>
> >> John Shulick wrote:
> >> > quote author Tootle
> >> >
> >> > "I saw Herb responding to attacks and snide remarks on his beliefs.
>  John
> >> > S.'s remarks and innuendo set the tone.  He is the troll if there is
> >> one."
> >> >
> >> > Ed,
> >> >
> >> >    I will openly admit that my comments contributed to the current
> >> > situation. Now I'll tell you why I made them. Herbs' use of the word
> >> > "non-productive" really got under my skin. Tell me what right he has
> to
> >> > determine who's productive and who's not. Unless you have walked a
> mile
> >> in
> >> > that persons' shoes you have absolutely no idea of what had transpired
> in
> >> > that persons' life to put them in that situation. Once you've
> determined
> >> > they have no value and don't contribute what becomes of them. You
> don't
> >> want
> >> > to pay to educate them. They can't find work that pays them enough to
> >> feed
> >> > and house themselves so what's left? Let them wander homeless,
> >>  committing
> >> > crimes to stay alive until society has had enough? What I posted was
> the
> >> > logical conclusion of Herbs' thought and that enraged him. I
> understand
> >> > there was a tradition of someone announcing themselves to this forum,
> I
> >> > formally apologize to the list membership I will do so now. Hello
> >> everybody
> >> > on the Rhodes 22 forum, my name is John Shulick and I hail from
> >> Pittsburgh,
> >> > Pa. I'm 50 years old, for 30 years I tried to make a living as a
> vocalist
> >> by
> >> > performing as a member of the Pittsburgh opera chorus and soloist or
> >> section
> >> > leader for any church or temple who would hire me. In addition,
> because
> >> > being a vocalist pays next to nothing I have done menial labor my
> entire
> >> > life installing repairing and maintaining swimming pools in the
> >> Pittsburgh
> >> > area. My father died when I was 15 I was on my own by age 19. It took
> me
> >> 10
> >> > years to get my college degree(BM Duquesne University 86) in a
> >> combination
> >> > of full and part time attendance. My average annual income is less
> than
> >> 15K
> >> > a year and I've worked as many as 4 jobs at one time to earn that. If
> it
> >> > weren't for the fact my wife has a real job I would be living under a
> >> bridge
> >> > somewhere as one of Herbs' non-productive people. The purchase of my
> beat
> >> up
> >> > old 71 Rhodes is one of the high points in my life and it has been a
> >> great
> >> > joy refinishing the hull and teaching myself to sail it this year. I
> >> joined
> >> > this forum hoping to benefit from the accumulated knowledge here and I
> >> have.
> >> > I do not mind political discussion but I DO mind the constant
> insinuation
> >> > that my and others opinions name us as communist socialist and un
> >> american.
> >> > Sometimes Ed I wonder if you, Herb, and god (Brads' own label not
> mine)
> >> > simply post this stuff on a public forum to provoke fights? I respect
> you
> >> > because of your tremendous knowledge concerning the Rhodes 22 and
> sailing
> >> in
> >> > general but you insult me when your response to someone is go to Stan
> and
> >> > throw money at him as a solution to everything Rhodes. Some of us
> can't
> >> do
> >> > that. Oh and by the way I did catch you're oblique threat to me some
> >> months
> >> > ago made as an aside to Elle (shoot the western Pa turkey). Do it
> again
> >> and
> >> > I will see if Ben C. would like to own 1/3 of a marina. In his last
> post
> >> > Herb asked me what was up my butt. What's up my butt is the
> conservative
> >> > enema you three have placed there with your constant postings on your
> >> views.
> >> >
> >> > Nuff said
> >> >
> >> > John Shulick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Slim,
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, at least you get extra credit for making your view public and
> >> >> for not taking a back-channel approach, but you are wrong. I don't
> see
> >> >> a man defending his reputation vigorously as engaging in vitriol.
> >> >> This group is no different than any other and is certainly capable of
> >> >> "gang behavior", and quite frankly, several of you have ganged-up on
> >> >> Herb as of late, including you Slim.
> >> >>
> >> >> "If you seek perfection, look in the mirror.  If you find it there,
> >> >> seek it in others".  M. Forbes
> >> >>
> >> >> Is what you are asking a sneak preview of the Fairness Doctrine? I
> >> >> don't like it already!  To my knowledge the only self-admitted
> >> >> "troll" on the list has already departed.  Herb is no troll.
> >> >>
> >> >> Slim, you and your comrades do what you think is best, but I think
> >> >> you're being unfair and selfish.
> >> >>
> >> >> Brad
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Steven Alm <stevenalm at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> To JLo and MJM,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> We have a troll on our list that has been causing problems and
> >> instilling
> >> >>> hatred and posting foul diatribes for months now.  He has caused
> many
> >> to
> >> >>> filter him out and/or delete his posts in disgust.  I, myself have
> >> >>> received
> >> >>> numerous back-channel messages complaining about him and his rude
> and
> >> >>> inappropriate posts.  This should come to a halt.  As a member of
> this
> >> >>> fine
> >> >>> community of Rhodes owners for some 8 or 9 years, I've seen only one
> >> >>> other
> >> >>> member who has shown such a disrespect for others here on the Rhodes
> >> >>> list.
> >> >>> That individual was ultimately relieved of his status here and
> >> thankfully
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> no longer a member.  I recommend that this troll be sanctioned and
> no
> >> >>> longer
> >> >>> be allowed to participate in our otherwise polite and courteous
> >> exchange
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> sailing and/or other topics.  He has disrupted our list for too long
> >> and
> >> >>> has
> >> >>> caused too many arguments for the rest of us to be comfortable with
> >> >>> posting
> >> >>> our usual thoughts on any given topic without being lambasted with
> his
> >> >>> vitriol.  He continues to insult anyone and everyone who disagrees
> with
> >> >>> his
> >> >>> positions and in doing so has created an environment of hostility
> that
> >> >>> has
> >> >>> made the Rhodes list a den of venom.  I'm referring to Herb Parsons.
>  I
> >> >>> ask
> >> >>> that you consider removing him from our group.  He contributes
> little
> >> >>> other
> >> >>> than arguments and stifles many from contributing to this wonderful
> >> >>> forum.
> >> >>> I want him out!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Steve Alm  aka  "Slim"
> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> >>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >>> __________________________________________________
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
> to
> >> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> >> __________________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go to
> >> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> > __________________________________________________
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> > __________________________________________________
> >
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