[Rhodes22-list] Sailing with waves

Mon Oct 13 09:23:17 EDT 2008

Rick, I am guessing Bill means speed over ground not water. Perhaps there is
a 4 or 5 knot current to consider. He nay be using GPS rather than knot
meter??? Just guessing?

Wally

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 7:50 PM, EmailUser sloopblueheron <
sloopblueheron at isp.com> wrote:

> Bill,
>
> 11 knots is pretty fast.  Or are you actually measuring in mph?  I can
> sustain 5.2 knots while displacing.  My best planing speed is about 7 knots
> only momentarily down the face of a wave.  If I see the knotmeter go
> higher,
> its because I'm heeling too much and the paddle wheel is spinning in the
> air.
>
> Rick
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:21 AM, TN Rhodey <tnrhodey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Mike/Lee - I do this when solo but have friends sailing near by. Usual
> > disclaimers apply and I do wear a PFD. Hang on tight!   :-)
> >
> > Wally
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Michael D. Weisner <mweisner at ebsmed.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Leland,
> > >
> > > Please note that this is a DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME STUNT!  If you are
> > going
> > > to attempt this, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT IT WHILE SINGLEHANDING - have
> > > another
> > > sailor on board who needs to practice MOB drills.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > > Nissequogue River, NY
> > >
> > > From: "KUHN, LELAND" <LKUHN at cnmc.org>Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008
> > 5:03
> > > PM
> > >  > Wally,
> > > >
> > > > I like that stupid trick!  I'm thinking that the drag from a body
> will
> > > > easily turn the boat.  I may need to wait until the water warms up
> > again
> > > > to give it a try.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: TN Rhodey [mailto:tnrhodey at gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:28 AM
> > > > To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing with waves
> > > >
> > > > When I want to move around and go forward .....   Keep in mind what
> you
> > > > want
> > > > to do while away from tiller and what side of the boat your weight
> will
> > > > on.
> > > > Trim accordingly. I secure tiller and trim sails with a little extra
> > > > weather
> > > > or lee helm. If you keep your weight on opposite side you can balance
> > > > out.
> > > >
> > > > I learned lots of stupid sailing tricks as a kid. One can set sails
> and
> > > > tiller, secure a line to aft cleat, and while holding (tightly)
> bitter
> > > > end
> > > > of line jump into the water!  Pulling on the line left or right will
> > > > make
> > > > slight adjustments to course. You can actually sail your R22 with
> > no-one
> > > > aboard while being dragged behind. I thought this was much safer than
> > > > past
> > > > activities like slalom water skiing while drinking a beer. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Note - make sure your swim ladder is down or can be lowered easily
> from
> > > > water. This is very stupid and unsafe. I don't suggest anyone try
> this.
> > > >
> > > > Fair Winds,
> > > >
> > > > Wally
> > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, KUHN, LELAND <LKUHN at cnmc.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Mike,
> > > >>
> > > >> You got that right.  Sailing the Rhodes is like surfing on a giant
> > > >> longboard.  I haven't noticed much of a difference moving forward
> but
> > > > it
> > > >> makes sense that it affects the balance a little.
> > > >>
> > > >> The more opposing pressure you have above and below the water, the
> > > > less
> > > >> effect your weight will have on the balance, but you'll probably
> still
> > > >> be able to turn the boat by shifting your weight.  Moving 200 lbs.
> > > > from
> > > >> one side to the other is a 400 lb. shift on a boat with only a 700
> lb.
> > > >> keel.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lee
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Michael D. Weisner [mailto:mweisner at ebsmed.com]
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:38 PM
> > > >> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Sailing with waves
> > > >>
> > > >> Bill,
> > > >>
> > > >> When you single-hand (sailing that is), don't you find that the
> > > >> "balance" is
> > > >> upset when you move about?  It seems that no matter how carefully I
> > > > set
> > > >> the
> > > >> sails, hove to or otherwise, as soon as I move, the whole balance
> > > >> changes.
> > > >> Walking forward into the cabin, even on the centerline of the boat,
> > > >> changes
> > > >> the heading, although not nearly as much as happens when rummaging
> > > >> around in
> > > >> the v-berth or going forward to check a line or something.  I weigh
> > > >> about
> > > >> 200 lbs and cannot move about without altering the "balance."  What
> is
> > > >> your
> > > >> secret?
> > > >>
> > > >> Mike
> > > >> s/v Shanghai'd Summer ('81)
> > > >> Nissequogue River, NY
> > > >>
> > > >> From: "Bill Effros" <bill at effros.com>Sent: Wednesday, October 08,
> > 2008
> > > >> 5:30
> > > >> PM
> > > >> > Mary Lou,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I do have the 175, and I heave to whenever there is any wind at
> all
> > > >> and
> > > >> > I need to do something.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Usually that "something" is going to the head when I'm single
> > > > handing,
> > > >> > although I will heave to with people aboard if things are chaotic
> > > > and
> > > >> I
> > > >> > want to calm something down.  Sometimes I heave to because it is
> > > > just
> > > >> > the most peaceful way to sail, and with all kinds of deep water
> > > >> > available, I will heave to for hours, waving off friendlies who
> stop
> > > >> by
> > > >> > to see if I'm in trouble.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The easiest way to do it (so this is naturally the way I do it
> most
> > > >> > often) is to come about and not release the jib.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > If you leave the rudder pointed in this direction, you will do a
> 360
> > > >> and
> > > >> > continue on the same tack you started.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So, after the boom crosses over, you turn the rudder the other
> way.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Then you play with the rudder, pointing more or less into the
> wind,
> > > >> > until the boat gets to where you like the way it feels.  A calm
> will
> > > >> > settle over the boat, the wind will feel like it has lessened, the
> > > >> boat
> > > >> > will ride on the waves or tide or current without fighting it.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The wind's power will push the boat sideways, faster or slower
> > > >> depending
> > > >> > on how high you decide to point into the wind.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Then you lash the tiller in place, and you can forget about it
> until
> > > >> you
> > > >> > see obstacles approaching on your leeward side.  (I use dock line
> > > > and
> > > >> > both aft cleats to lash my tiller -- easy to do -- everything
> right
> > > > at
> > > >> > hand -- the tiller won't move an inch once lashed in place.  The
> > > > boat
> > > >> > will slowly travel in the direction set until you are ready to
> > > > release
> > > >> > the jib, or come about and take off.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I can do it with any amount of sail -- it's just a matter of
> > > >> > establishing a balance.  Most of the time I don't change the main
> > > >> sail,
> > > >> > and just set the sheets so as much wind spills off as I choose.
> > > > Since
> > > >> I
> > > >> > am usually going to the head, and I have a hatch, and I'm a
> stand-up
> > > >> > kind of guy, I reduce the jib so that it doesn't smack me in the
> > > > face
> > > >> at
> > > >> > a time when my hands are otherwise occupied.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Under small craft advisory conditions I already have handkerchief
> > > >> sized
> > > >> > sails, and with that much wind, that's all you need.  I try not to
> > > >> reset
> > > >> > anything once I'm underway in these conditions.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The great thing about heaving to is that everything gets so calm.
> > > > You
> > > >> > have all the time in the world to experiment, and you won't get
> > > > hurt.
> > > >> > Roll in the Jib, roll out the main, turn the rudder this way then
> > > >> that,
> > > >> > watch the water...at some point you realize you're doing it!
>  There
> > > > is
> > > >> > nothing to it, and there is the thrill of learning to sail in a
> very
> > > >> > different way.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It's useful.  It's safe.  It's easy.  It works in every wind
> > > >> condition.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bill
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mary Lou Troy wrote:
> > > >> >> Bill,
> > > >> >> What size jib when you heave to in those conditions. You have a
> 175
> > > >> >> right?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> We've never been successful getting the boat to heave to but we
> > > >> >> haven't practised much and we may not have tried it in enough
> wind.
> > > >> >> Do you find you can heave to in winds less than 10 knots?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Thanks,
> > > >> >> Mary Lou
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> At 12:33 AM 10/8/2008, you wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>> Andrew,
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> I've sailed in the same place under the same conditions.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> I find I can control the boat up into 20-25 mph wind conditions.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> I sail with far less than 50% of both sails, and can maintain
> > > >> sustained
> > > >> >>> over ground speeds between 7 and 11 kts--exceeding theoretical
> > > > hull
> > > >> >>> speed by planing on the waves.  I try not to heel at all, and
> roll
> > > >> up my
> > > >> >>> 175 to storm sail size--tiny just for balance.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> The main drives the boat, and I set it at any size that will not
> > > >> cause
> > > >> >>> heeling.
> > > >> >>> It is almost impossible to come about under these conditions
> > > >> factoring
> > > >> >>> in the waves.  I always jibe...carefully, with a very small
> main,
> > > >> and
> > > >> >>> just a small "pop" when I change tacks.  I generally sail with
> the
> > > >> boom
> > > >> >>> up so I don't have to worry about getting killed by a small
> > > > mistake.
> > > >> My
> > > >> >>> main is so small, the higher boom does not create heeling.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Heaving to under these conditions is a kick, and definitely what
> I
> > > >> would
> > > >> >>> do if I found myself in a storm not on purpose. If you didn't
> try
> > > > it
> > > >> >>> when you were out there, you should next time.  You bob like a
> > > > cork
> > > >> in
> > > >> >>> complete calm.  I had lunch, then released the jib in such a way
> > > >> that I
> > > >> >>> headed on the opposite tack and came home.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Bill Effros
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Andrew Collins wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> Question for blue water and Great Lakes (maybe) sailors:
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> The day before Hanna, the one before Ike, was due to roll in, I
> > > >> took a
> > > >> >>>> sail
> > > >> >>>> to try the boat out in unusual conditions. The wind was steady
> > > > out
> > > >> of
> > > >> >>>> the
> > > >> >>>> east at about 15-20 mph with rolling 5-6' swells 20' apart once
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>> out of port.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> On LI Sound waves are uncommon, as it is usually only choppy.
> So
> > > >> going
> > > >> >>>> out
> > > >> >>>> the tack was port on a reach and crossing the swells at less
> than
> > > >> 90
> > > >> >>>> deg.
> > > >> >>>> This was sailing into, up and over the swells, which was
> > > >> controllable,
> > > >> >>>> the
> > > >> >>>> sails reefed to 50% area. Boom down, life jacket on, pulse up.
> > > > The
> > > >> boat
> > > >> >>>> behaved well. Upon approaching Payee Reach which gets more air
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>> and having to
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>> cross a more shallow area the swells got larger as the bottom
> > > >> pushed
> > > >> >>>> them
> > > >> >>>> up. So this got a little too exciting sooo, it was time to tack
> > > > and
> > > >>
> > > >> >>>> turn
> > > >> >>>> back. The wind was too stiff and the the swells enough so she
> > > >> wouldn't
> > > >> >>>> come
> > > >> >>>> around, and I fell off to the former port tack.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Keeping a weather eye on the swells a quick jibe got me on a
> > > >> starboard
> > > >> >>>> tack
> > > >> >>>> headed back towards port. So now we are sailing across and with
> > > >> 'down'
> > > >> >>>> the
> > > >> >>>> swells, where before we were sailing 'up'. The boat is heeling
> to
> > > >> port
> > > >> >>>> and
> > > >> >>>> when sailing down, the heeling is being accentuated by going
> > > >> downhill
> > > >> >>>> on an
> > > >> >>>> angle across the swell, a new experience. This I did not like,
> so
> > > >> >>>> whenever
> > > >> >>>> the boat started to head down a wave I fell off to brad reach
> and
> > > >> >>>> headed
> > > >> >>>> straighter down the wave (closer to the fall line) and headed
> up
> > > >> again,
> > > >> >>>> describing a zig-zag course. This I liked as there was a bit of
> > > >> surfing
> > > >> >>>> involved. Having had my fun I headed home, where the first mate
> > > >> >>>> observed
> > > >> >>>> that I looked a mite piqued.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> What have other R22 sailors done in these circumstances,
> besides
> > > >> >>>> avoiding
> > > >> >>>> them? In how much wind are you able to tack? My boat will tack
> up
> > > >> to
> > > >> >>>> about
> > > >> >>>> 20 mph, depending on the seas.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Andrew
> > > >> >>>> s/v Carmen
> > > >> >>>> __________________________________________________
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> > > >> >>>>
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> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>
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>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Rick
>  __________________________________________________
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