[Rhodes22-list] Re spect

Wed Oct 22 22:13:24 EDT 2008

What he said.  I don't reply to all messages.
/Robert

David Bradley wrote:
> Ben, your posts are appreciated by what I suspect is a silent
> majority, even if a slim one.  Herb is to the right of 99% of the
> population, loves to pick a fight and is first to escalate the tone
> and begin the name calling.  He would have been thrown out of any bar
> I've ever hung out in long ago.  Most of us just don't bother to
> reason with him because there is no reasoning, no give and take.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Benjamin Cittadino
> <bigben65 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Paul;
>>
>> I appreciate the sentiment.  Thanks for the thought. Frankly, I'm
>> reassessing my role here and whether it makes sense to participate further,
>> at least as to the political stuff.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Ben C.
>>
>> pdgrand wrote:
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> I'm not Jb but I'd like to weigh in on the subject.  As I said in the
>>> past, I used to especially enjoy the political debating between Brad &
>>> Bill in past election cycles.  They didn't get personal and they kept it
>>> respectful.  Bill seems to be sitting this one out, leaving you, Pete &
>>> some others to lead the arguements for the left against Brad, Herb & Ed on
>>> the right.  Personally, I don't recall reading anything from you that I
>>> would term offensive.  Others obviously disagree.  Discussing politics
>>> often evokes different levels of emotion in different people.  Let's keep
>>> the lively debate going, but everyone needs to work on not taking things
>>> personally or getting personal with a reply to what may only be a
>>> perceived insult (which you have done for the most part).  In other words,
>>> everyone just needs to lighten up.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>> Dear Jb;
>>>>
>>>> I am curious.  Do you see no problem with Ed's post at the beginning of
>>>> this
>>>> thread? Is it OK for members to call each other such vile names as
>>>> marxist
>>>> or refer to them being co-conspirators in a fraud?  I know your opinion
>>>> about what I said.  What is your opinion of what Ed said, not as it
>>>> relates
>>>> to me but as it relates generally to behavior of forum members? Do you
>>>> find
>>>> such invective entertaining?  I'm trying to be serious here for a moment.
>>>> I
>>>> am interested in your opinion because I haven't skirmished with you
>>>> before
>>>> and I really want a fresh thought on this?  Are you willing to put aside
>>>> the
>>>> "reparte" for a moment and address this subject? You talk, I'll listen.
>>>>
>>>> Ben C.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>> Herb
>>>>> My pic is at the end of the post.     jb.jpg
>>>>> Jb
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Herb Parsons" <hparsons at parsonsys.com>
>>>>> To: "The Rhodes 22 Email List" <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:30 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking at my screen, but can't say for sure. I see black, and see
>>>>>> white in your post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both are extremes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You realize, it's all tongue in cheek don't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We both know the truth. Ben was putting out a stupid threat, and was
>>>>>> probably embarrassed that anyone called him on it.... OK, I'll be
>>>>>> honest, probably embarrassed that anyone besides ME called him on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never liked it when the kids at school pumped out their chests like
>>>>>> they were ready to fight. I always thought the real fun was watching
>>>>>> them back down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, I'm an extremist, and probably do look like one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then, there are worst things in life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>>>> Herb.
>>>>>>> do I look like an extreamist?
>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hparsons wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahhh, good to know I'm not the only extremist that saw it that way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe you should look a little closer at how you worded things
>>>>>> Ben....
>>>>>>>> I'm not the only one ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> JbTek wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>> I meant were you threatening to sue. That's what it read like to
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>> I think name calling is allowed on this list, or at least tolerated
>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> threats are not.
>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:16 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean, was Ed threatening to charge me as a co-conspirator?
>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>> sounded like that to me. Or did you mean was Ed threatening to
>>>>>> label
>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> marxist? Sure sounded that way to me. Was I threatening to sue Ed?
>>>>> No,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> was gently suggesting that if I did not have such a wonderfully
>>>>>>>>>> developed
>>>>>>>>>> sense of humor a person in my position (libeled by him) might have
>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> options and he ought not call people defamatory names.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just bent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I got a question or you....was that a threat?
>>>>>>>>>>> Jb
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ben Cittadino" <bcittadino at dcs-law.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:39 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] ... failure of leadership or leading
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will you answer some questions for me? What is a marxist as you
>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> makes me a marxist in your view?  Does the 1st Amendment to our
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Constitution
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> immunize folks who libel other folks? Does calling someone a
>>>>> marxist
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> not in fact a marxist constitute defamation of character? Do you
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> life savings?  Inquiring minds want to know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a nice day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben C.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad Haslett-2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama intentionally and cynically has misled the public about
>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship with Ayers.  This issue isn't going away and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go away.  Speculation is strong and the evidence is growing
>>>>>> that
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers relationship goes all the way back to Obama's
>>>>>> days
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NYC at Columbia (Ayers was there at the same time and they were
>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends of Dr. Saed) and that Ayers actually ghost authored
>>>>> Obama's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first book (the word count and sentence structure mirrors
>>>>>> Ayer's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing and was written at a 12th grade level, Obama's second
>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> written at a 9th grade level).  But let's forget speculation
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment and stick with what is known.  I'm posting a link
>>>>>> instead
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the article so you can see the photo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/obama-praised-searing-timely-book-ayers/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We know from tax returns from the Annenberg Challenge that
>>>>>> Obama,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, and Klonsky all had offices on the same floor of the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> building. Michelle and Ayers' wife both worked at the same law
>>>>> firm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama and Ayers appeared at joint speaking engagements (which
>>>>>> by
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way, Illinois ethics law prohibits receiving fees for speaking
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama's tax returns show "speaker fees" during the period he
>>>>>> was
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Illinois Senate, another MSM oversight).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Just a guy in my neighborhood with a degree in English"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was willful intent to decieve and the MSM has for the most
>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>>>>> let him get away with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The man is a liar, if he were on trial he would certainly be
>>>>> guilty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perjury - and he may well be, soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Tootle <ekroposki at charter.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... Since I socialize mostly with folks in my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socioeconomic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> class, while most support Obama, ..."  The term leadership
>>>>> comprises
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atributes.  And part of what are call traditional values is
>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes honesty requires analysis of what is going on and
>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America, we have a problem..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben discounted the Bill Ayers thing.  Even if he is a Marxist
>>>>>> as
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ayers, he as an American has an obligation to speak the truth.
>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marxist is obligated to tell the truth and not lie about it.
>>>>>> So
>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with his candidate Obama.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So what are the elements of Conspiracy?  If you know or should
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable known something?  Are you obligated to say
>>>>>> something?
>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not say anything are you a coconspirator?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Ben's case I have to ask, if a fraud is being commited is
>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> obligated
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speak out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above is why I routinely for years have quoted:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Germany they first came for the Communists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Then they came for the Jews,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the trade unionists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they came for the Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Then they came for me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    and by that time no one was left to speak up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  --The Reverend Martin NiemÃ¶ller, a pastor in the German
>>>>> Confessing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Church
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who spent seven years in a concentration camp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben said, "... I, on the other hand, wish there were no
>>>>> connection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because then we could argue about policy instead of who knew
>>>>>> who,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when, and what possible difference it makes."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this an admission of an issue?  Saying that because most
>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> deny
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection is using Richard Nixon's arguement that everybody
>>>>>> else
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics did it, therefore it was o.k.  Saying his friends
>>>>>> deny
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> issue
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not make it go away.  It is Richard Nixon's arguement all
>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wasn't Nixon a lawyer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does law school teach ask the hard questions in court, but do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of yourself?  Are lawyers above the law?  Inquiring minds want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> know?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greenville, SC, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attachment for Andrew:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20084939/Andrew%2527s%2Bversion.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew%27s+version.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20084939.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> list
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20093092.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> go
>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> go
>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20099555.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list
>>>>>> go
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe/unsubscribe or for help with using the mailing list go
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> http://www.rhodes22.org/list
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>> to
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>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/file/p20100644/Jb.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/...-failure-of-leadership-or-leading-...-tp20084939p20101056.html
>>>> Sent from the Rhodes 22 mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>> --
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> 
> 
> 